no hand tracking
no color passthrough
no hardware upgrade
no WebXR
no new VR proper content
Still, it’s good obviously, not having to rely on BigTech. This was also possible before though as I pointed out in https://lemmy.ml/post/38899489/22202786 with e.g. Lynx XR1, as a rooted Android standalone HMD with no account required.
Anyway IMHO the big questions for VR on Linux more broadly is what changes upstream on KDE in terms of immersive UX? Is KDE Plasma becoming a VR graphical shell? Does it have 3D widgets? Does it impact freedesktop in any way?
I wonder if they might be able to add hand tracking later, since they’ve already got the cameras that’d to the tracking?
VR proper content
Like what? If it’s a full blown desktop environment with steamVR, isn’t that as VR proper as it gets? 🤔 not being critical, trying to get what you mean! 🙂
no hardware upgrade
As for GPU/CPU upgrades, I think if you wanna do heavy VR games like alyx it makes sense to stream from its dedicated dongle, no? Also they’ve talked about the ability to upgrade lenses and headstrap-audio and other stuff - so, besides the main board, it is actually sorta upgradable! 🙂
Price will make or break this thing. Rumors going around its gonna be around 1k which is a tall ask for the listed specs. 500, I’d buy it without any promise of any Valve backed VR game and I’m not even big on VR. For the rumored price, I’d need to see more commitment from Valve and latest news right now are saying they aren’t developing a VR title.
I very much doubt it would be 1K, the Index was 1K and they’ve made it clear that this is not targeting the same premium headset market that the Index was.
A $1k would break it in this market… The specs suggest a little lower end generally than Quest 3 hardware wise, or in the ballpark (comparable display and optics, lower quality cameras). The only notable improvement is including eye tracking, which is nice, but not $1k nice…
$500 should be a good target, some tradeoffs with Quest 3 (worse ‘AR’, better eye tracking and PC connectivity).
It’s a VR headset so no one really cares about the cameras. The only headset with cameras that are any good is on the Apple Pro which is ludicrously expensive. The quest 3s cameras are fine but you can’t really read a display while wearing it so they’re basically useless for AR stuff.
This is more thinking about material cost rather than relative value. If you save money on the passthrough and incur a few costs above the Quest 3 but nothing dramatic, then I’m just saying the pricing needs to be in the ballpark of Quest 3. Better value by making smarter choices that may not have a cost impact (e.g. using a maintstream high end SoC instead of a niche SoC, putting the battery at the back instead of making it front heavy).
Of course they may be hampered by different business needs. Meta affording to risk more money than Valve can risk might drive higher price point, but it would be unfortunate.
@[email protected] I don’t think that’s the determining factor for whether something is useless for AR. AR can be useful even just because it lets you be aware of your surroundings. Then there’s the fun of combining real-world objects and structures with virtual ones. Quest 3 can be good for both to some extent.
My point is that no one really cares about the cameras because this is a VR headset, it isn’t trying to be everything to everyone. I also don’t really think anyone cares about apple’s “spatial computing” (AR), perhaps if they actually had more applications people would be interested, but they don’t.
@[email protected] the SoC is better than Quest 3 so that is also a notable improvement. Comfort seems likely to be significantly better than with Quest 3 and default strap. Wireless dongle is included in the price. Will have to wait for reviews to know how some other aspects compare.
The SoC may be better, but I don’t know that it would be more expensive. Meta went with a more niche SoC and Valve selected a more mainstream, newer SoC. Better specs, but also larger volumes so cost wise I think Valve should be fine. Comfort certainly seems like it should be better, but I don’t know that I see more cost as a factor versus just making better decisions.
The wireless dongle certainly can be a thing in it’s favor, just thinking that on balance there’s some things that should contribute to BOM price and some that should save on BOM price and it should, roughly, be in the ballpark of Quest 3 when all is said and done, not 2x the cost.
Yeah, at about £500 I’d have got one. I don’t need the full Steam OS or any of that crap. I just want wireless connection to my PC for streaming.
The use of a second wireless dongle could be a double edged sword as well. Right now I can use a Quest anywhere in the house on Wifi. Works better than wired, in fact. The dongle would limit where I can use it.
I’m sure you can also stream to it over a conventional wifi connection as well, the point of the dongle is so that they can guarantee a direct connection with lower latency and on a dedicated radio frequency to avoid interference, which is especially for non-techies who don’t know what they’re doing and just expect stuff to work out-of-the-box. The headset is just running SteamOS and has a regular wifi antenna, so I see no reason why you couldn’t stream to it using plain old Steam Link or whatever if you already know your connection can handle it.
For the rumored price, I’d need to see more commitment from Valve and latest news right now are saying they aren’t developing a VR title.
Agreed. I feel the same.
But then I start to think about an Indie friendly VR platform might give us in six months. It could be very nice. (The price might look more okay in a year, if this thing incites a VR indie game boom.)
Sadly agree. I’ve been waiting for years, claiming I’d buy whatever they sell… but honestly right now this would feel like a donation more than something I eagerly want, even less need.
FWIW I’m also NOT the market, I have … I don’t actually know how many but at least 5 XR headsets.
@[email protected]@[email protected] seems like there’s more potential for hardware upgrades than with any other headset since the system has separate modules for compute/optics+display/tracking and audio/strap/power but sure, no XR headset is going to be very upgradable given the harsh constraints on size and weight.
Yeah, in theory that’s great but reminds me of my Corsair One proudly featured on my desk right now. It’s a standard PC… but that thing is so well done, so compact, it’s hard to find ways to change anything.
Also it reminds me of the frunk of the Index, super cool in theory, couple of neat projects… but I personally didn’t use it much so we’ll see.
Yes but …
Still, it’s good obviously, not having to rely on BigTech. This was also possible before though as I pointed out in https://lemmy.ml/post/38899489/22202786 with e.g. Lynx XR1, as a rooted Android standalone HMD with no account required.
Anyway IMHO the big questions for VR on Linux more broadly is what changes upstream on KDE in terms of immersive UX? Is KDE Plasma becoming a VR graphical shell? Does it have 3D widgets? Does it impact freedesktop in any way?
(copy of https://lemmy.ml/post/38899489/22202838 as I posted there first)
I wonder if they might be able to add hand tracking later, since they’ve already got the cameras that’d to the tracking?
What would you want hand tracking or color pass through for? The goal of this headset is VR and I feel like it checks all the boxes required for it.
Price will make or break this thing. Rumors going around its gonna be around 1k which is a tall ask for the listed specs. 500, I’d buy it without any promise of any Valve backed VR game and I’m not even big on VR. For the rumored price, I’d need to see more commitment from Valve and latest news right now are saying they aren’t developing a VR title.
I very much doubt it would be 1K, the Index was 1K and they’ve made it clear that this is not targeting the same premium headset market that the Index was.
A $1k would break it in this market… The specs suggest a little lower end generally than Quest 3 hardware wise, or in the ballpark (comparable display and optics, lower quality cameras). The only notable improvement is including eye tracking, which is nice, but not $1k nice…
$500 should be a good target, some tradeoffs with Quest 3 (worse ‘AR’, better eye tracking and PC connectivity).
It’s a VR headset so no one really cares about the cameras. The only headset with cameras that are any good is on the Apple Pro which is ludicrously expensive. The quest 3s cameras are fine but you can’t really read a display while wearing it so they’re basically useless for AR stuff.
This is more thinking about material cost rather than relative value. If you save money on the passthrough and incur a few costs above the Quest 3 but nothing dramatic, then I’m just saying the pricing needs to be in the ballpark of Quest 3. Better value by making smarter choices that may not have a cost impact (e.g. using a maintstream high end SoC instead of a niche SoC, putting the battery at the back instead of making it front heavy).
Of course they may be hampered by different business needs. Meta affording to risk more money than Valve can risk might drive higher price point, but it would be unfortunate.
@[email protected] I don’t think that’s the determining factor for whether something is useless for AR. AR can be useful even just because it lets you be aware of your surroundings. Then there’s the fun of combining real-world objects and structures with virtual ones. Quest 3 can be good for both to some extent.
My point is that no one really cares about the cameras because this is a VR headset, it isn’t trying to be everything to everyone. I also don’t really think anyone cares about apple’s “spatial computing” (AR), perhaps if they actually had more applications people would be interested, but they don’t.
@[email protected] the SoC is better than Quest 3 so that is also a notable improvement. Comfort seems likely to be significantly better than with Quest 3 and default strap. Wireless dongle is included in the price. Will have to wait for reviews to know how some other aspects compare.
The SoC may be better, but I don’t know that it would be more expensive. Meta went with a more niche SoC and Valve selected a more mainstream, newer SoC. Better specs, but also larger volumes so cost wise I think Valve should be fine. Comfort certainly seems like it should be better, but I don’t know that I see more cost as a factor versus just making better decisions.
The wireless dongle certainly can be a thing in it’s favor, just thinking that on balance there’s some things that should contribute to BOM price and some that should save on BOM price and it should, roughly, be in the ballpark of Quest 3 when all is said and done, not 2x the cost.
Yeah, at about £500 I’d have got one. I don’t need the full Steam OS or any of that crap. I just want wireless connection to my PC for streaming.
The use of a second wireless dongle could be a double edged sword as well. Right now I can use a Quest anywhere in the house on Wifi. Works better than wired, in fact. The dongle would limit where I can use it.
I’m sure you can also stream to it over a conventional wifi connection as well, the point of the dongle is so that they can guarantee a direct connection with lower latency and on a dedicated radio frequency to avoid interference, which is especially for non-techies who don’t know what they’re doing and just expect stuff to work out-of-the-box. The headset is just running SteamOS and has a regular wifi antenna, so I see no reason why you couldn’t stream to it using plain old Steam Link or whatever if you already know your connection can handle it.
Agreed. I feel the same.
But then I start to think about an Indie friendly VR platform might give us in six months. It could be very nice. (The price might look more okay in a year, if this thing incites a VR indie game boom.)
Sadly agree. I’ve been waiting for years, claiming I’d buy whatever they sell… but honestly right now this would feel like a donation more than something I eagerly want, even less need.
FWIW I’m also NOT the market, I have … I don’t actually know how many but at least 5 XR headsets.
@[email protected] @[email protected] seems like there’s more potential for hardware upgrades than with any other headset since the system has separate modules for compute/optics+display/tracking and audio/strap/power but sure, no XR headset is going to be very upgradable given the harsh constraints on size and weight.
Yeah, in theory that’s great but reminds me of my Corsair One proudly featured on my desk right now. It’s a standard PC… but that thing is so well done, so compact, it’s hard to find ways to change anything.
Also it reminds me of the frunk of the Index, super cool in theory, couple of neat projects… but I personally didn’t use it much so we’ll see.