Putin is willing to make a deal with Trump in which he cedes invaded land that he doesn’t actually control?
That might work for him, at least until Russia can build up a few new tanks and artillery units. More likely they make all kinds of outrageous claims and when Ukraine (rightfully) rejects them Russia can claim that Ukraine doesn’t want peace.
Or the fools hope option: Cracks in Russia start to show. Money is tight, there’s no workforce, no resources to cover up any kind of losses on the battlefield and so on, so they’re starting to push on whatever peace treaty they can before the whole country collapses.
Well, that is also a possibility, but the end result doesn’t change. Either way it’s possible to spin that so Ukraine would look bad. In the normal sensible world that wouldn’t fly, but with the global circus we’re experiencing it seems like anything goes.
It’s not that much about choosing a side. Europe has been sleeping on their defences for decaes and should US just pull all their hardware and troops back home tomorrow there’s no immediately available replacements on that. And that’s a sad state for the whole continent. So it’s not about honest opinion but, as everything between countries is, a political question on how badly some countries depend on US defences.
I have no doubt that should US side with Russians it would be widely condemned in global west, but I don’t think global south or China really give a damn. But Europe almost as a whole need to get their shit together really fast and so far, even if the movement seems to be into the right direction, it’s been really slow to show up any actual results.
I agree that Europe needs to get its shit together on defense sooner rather than later but the comment I replied to was about spin and the US will not succeed in spinning this as something positive if they help Russia occupy part of Europe.
US will not succeed in spinning this as something positive if they help Russia occupy part of Europe
On that you’re correct. But what they can at least try to do is make Ukraine look bad or difficult/subborn/whatever after rejecting their “peace offer”.
They can’t make Ukraine look any way unless there are idiots who believe Trump’s and Putin’s lies. And the only people who even pretend to believe them are their shitty quislings in the far-right parties. When Trump and Putin fall, which they will, those parties will dry and and blow away within months.
That might work for him, at least until Russia can build up a few new tanks and artillery units. More likely they make all kinds of outrageous claims and when Ukraine (rightfully) rejects them Russia can claim that Ukraine doesn’t want peace.
Or the fools hope option: Cracks in Russia start to show. Money is tight, there’s no workforce, no resources to cover up any kind of losses on the battlefield and so on, so they’re starting to push on whatever peace treaty they can before the whole country collapses.
I think the point was that Trump doesn’t actually control the land.
Well, that is also a possibility, but the end result doesn’t change. Either way it’s possible to spin that so Ukraine would look bad. In the normal sensible world that wouldn’t fly, but with the global circus we’re experiencing it seems like anything goes.
I think you underestimate how much the rest of the world is not on the US side in this if the US decides to be on Russia’s side.
It’s not that much about choosing a side. Europe has been sleeping on their defences for decaes and should US just pull all their hardware and troops back home tomorrow there’s no immediately available replacements on that. And that’s a sad state for the whole continent. So it’s not about honest opinion but, as everything between countries is, a political question on how badly some countries depend on US defences.
I have no doubt that should US side with Russians it would be widely condemned in global west, but I don’t think global south or China really give a damn. But Europe almost as a whole need to get their shit together really fast and so far, even if the movement seems to be into the right direction, it’s been really slow to show up any actual results.
It is very much about choosing a side. You can either be in favor in rewarding a war of aggression, or opposed to it.
The minimal acceptable outcome from the European perspective is Russia bled dry, economically crushed and gaining nothing.
I agree that Europe needs to get its shit together on defense sooner rather than later but the comment I replied to was about spin and the US will not succeed in spinning this as something positive if they help Russia occupy part of Europe.
On that you’re correct. But what they can at least try to do is make Ukraine look bad or difficult/subborn/whatever after rejecting their “peace offer”.
They can’t make Ukraine look any way unless there are idiots who believe Trump’s and Putin’s lies. And the only people who even pretend to believe them are their shitty quislings in the far-right parties. When Trump and Putin fall, which they will, those parties will dry and and blow away within months.