Because one being better than the other is not the same as being an acceptable choice.
But you already agreed that for swing state voters, there are effectively only 2 choices, and that one is better than the other in both the short and long term.
If I’m in a burning building, what fundamentally needs to happen is that I escape. You can argue that the flames on one side of the room are higher than the flames on the other side of the room, but I don’t care, because if I stay in the room I’ll die.
Again, you agreed that escape is effectively not an option through voting. Moving toward the side of the room with fewer flames is objectively the better choice while you work on establishing an escape.
Why on earth would you stand in the middle and let the fire decide?
You asked if I thought a third party could win this election, and the answer is no. But could a third party win a future election? The answer to that is yes, maybe. The results of this election will inform voters in future elections of whether a third party is viable.
No. Not in a first-past-the-post system. Can’t happen.
I bet we’d agree that that system needs to change, but it will not happen by voting 3rd party every 4 years.
The most important thing is increasing the chances of getting to an acceptable outcome, everything else is secondary to that goal.
Precisely. And within this system, with this short of a runway, Kamala is the only acceptable out of the 2 outcomes we agree are the only 2 possible.
But you already agreed that for swing state voters, there are effectively only 2 choices
Hold up. All I agreed with is that in this election, it wasn’t realistic for a third party to win. You’re trying to take that as meaning there’s no reason to vote third party. As I explained, it’s possible for third parties to wield influence, and giving them more votes gives them more ability to do that.
There are effectively two possible winners but that’s not the same as there being effectively two choices. The question isn’t “Do you think a third party can win this election,” the question is, “Do you think voting third party cause any positive effects?” to which my answer is yes.
Again, you agreed that escape is effectively not an option through voting.
I did no such thing. You’re twisting my words and jumping to conclusions.
Moving toward the side of the room with fewer flames is objectively the better choice while you work on establishing an escape.
Why on earth would you stand in the middle and let the fire decide?
I’m amazed that you managed to miss the point that hard. I don’t give a shit which fire is more comfortable to burn to death in. If there’s no way out, then I will still try to wail on the walls until I can’t anymore.
Kamala is the only acceptable
Kamala is fundamentally unacceptable. Again, you’re just acting like things are established when they very much are not.
Hold up. All I agreed with is that in this election, it wasn’t realistic for a third party to win. You’re trying to take that as meaning there’s no reason to vote third party. As I explained, it’s possible for third parties to wield influence, and giving them more votes gives them more ability to do that.
Again – no shot. Not in FPTP. You virtue signaling every 4 years has never and will never change that.
I did no such thing. You’re twisting my words and jumping to conclusions.
Yes you did. You agreed that that only Trump or Kamala will be president after this election. Don’t backtrack, there’s a reason I insisted on these answers.
I’m amazed that you managed to miss the point that hard. I don’t give a shit which fire is more comfortable to burn to death in. If there’s no way out, then I will still try to wail on the walls.
Again, why would you not wail on the walls in the room with less fire? What an absurd stance…
Kamala is fundamentally unacceptable.
Again, you already agreed she is the better option of the only 2 outcomes that will happen. Don’t twist my words ;)
Again – no shot. Not in FPTP. You virtue signaling every 4 years has never and will never change that.
That is incorrect. Lets say the polls show, Green 15%, Democrat 40%, Republican 45%, and the Greens say, “We’ll endorse the Democrats if and only if they do X.” You have not addressed why this is not a viable strategy at all. Saying “no shot” doesn’t make it true.
Yes you did. You agreed that that only Trump or Kamala will be president after this election. Don’t backtrack, there’s a reason I insisted on these answers.
That’s not the same thing. You’re conflating “being able to win this election” with “being able to ever change things.” It’s possible to change things without winning, and it’s possible for future elections to be different. You’re taking a much more limited claim and expanding it to a much larger one that I never agreed with.
Again, why would you not wail on the walls in the room with less fire? What an absurd stance…
If anything, it’d be better to wail on the walls in the room with more fire, to die quicker. But the point is that that doesn’t matter, the only thing that matters is escape.
Again, you already agreed she is the better option of the only 2 outcomes that will happen. Don’t twist my words ;)
And as I already stated, “better” does not mean “acceptable.” In the same way if you push a vegan into saying beef is better than pork, that doesn’t mean they consider beef an acceptable food.
Yeah, people already explained to you that you can choose neither beef nor pork and you will get neither beef nor pork, but if you choose neither the geriatric loony nor the sane candidate, you will still definitely get one of them. The vegan analogy is bogus because it’s a scenario in which there’s a free choice from a vast number of options. You keep saying you want neither, but you can’t have neither. You have to have one of them as president.
What a vegan wants isn’t just to not eat either pork or beef, but for neither animal to be killed. You can kill them anyway, but that doesn’t mean I have to eat. Same way, you can elect whichever of the awful candidates you want, but I don’t have to support them.
If 10% of citizens who care about animals consistently don’t eat pork or beef, the food industry reduces production and fewer pigs and cows get slaughtered for food.
If 10% of citizens who care about Palestinians don’t vote, Trump wins and it’s in Netanyahu’s interest to prolong, advance and widen his genocidal flattening of Gaza, extend it to the whole of the West Bank, wipe out as much of Lebanon as he can and take the war to Iran. That and all the turning the military on left wing citizens, mass deportations, leaving women to lose their fertility or die for lack of healthcare nationality, put trans people in jail after calling them pedophiles and let their pedophile friends off scot free. Meanwhile the Democrats see that left wingers don’t vote and the only votes they can chase are “centrists” and adopt more right wing policies because nothing moves the Overton window right more than a right wing government and there’s no loopy logic that’ll get you out of that reality.
If those 10% vote for Kamala Harris she continues to call publicly and privately for a ceasefire, and if the Democrats win both the House and the Senate they have the chance to actually change stuff and shit like the republicans’ new law removing the president’s power to delay and shipments gets washed away and there’s a chance, albeit small, that Harris is in power long enough and securely enough to do as you advocate and pressurise Netanyahu to stop, but there’s zero chance of that if she loses.
There’s no third option. It’s either Trump winning and everything getting worse, especially in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, the Middle East generally and the USA in particular, or Kamala winning and things getting marginally better.
Vegans make a positive difference by refusing both.
People like you make things much, much worse by refusing both.
We’ve been over this, in the other thread where you can’t address my point. Biden and Harris have no interest in stopping what’s happening in Gaza, they fully support unconditional arms shipments to Israel. This is where you call me a secret Trump supporter because there’s nothing you can say to that.
Aw gee, look at my post about electoral arithmetic vs vegan arithmetic that you ignore completely and tell me DEmoCRats eViL as usual, with your favourite one sided unfair misrepresentation served up as the usual non sequitur with a side of classic @OBJECTION!-style glossing over how much worse trump would be for Palestine, the world and the USA.
But you already agreed that for swing state voters, there are effectively only 2 choices, and that one is better than the other in both the short and long term.
Again, you agreed that escape is effectively not an option through voting. Moving toward the side of the room with fewer flames is objectively the better choice while you work on establishing an escape.
Why on earth would you stand in the middle and let the fire decide?
No. Not in a first-past-the-post system. Can’t happen.
I bet we’d agree that that system needs to change, but it will not happen by voting 3rd party every 4 years.
Precisely. And within this system, with this short of a runway, Kamala is the only acceptable out of the 2 outcomes we agree are the only 2 possible.
Hold up. All I agreed with is that in this election, it wasn’t realistic for a third party to win. You’re trying to take that as meaning there’s no reason to vote third party. As I explained, it’s possible for third parties to wield influence, and giving them more votes gives them more ability to do that.
There are effectively two possible winners but that’s not the same as there being effectively two choices. The question isn’t “Do you think a third party can win this election,” the question is, “Do you think voting third party cause any positive effects?” to which my answer is yes.
I did no such thing. You’re twisting my words and jumping to conclusions.
I’m amazed that you managed to miss the point that hard. I don’t give a shit which fire is more comfortable to burn to death in. If there’s no way out, then I will still try to wail on the walls until I can’t anymore.
Kamala is fundamentally unacceptable. Again, you’re just acting like things are established when they very much are not.
Again – no shot. Not in FPTP. You virtue signaling every 4 years has never and will never change that.
Yes you did. You agreed that that only Trump or Kamala will be president after this election. Don’t backtrack, there’s a reason I insisted on these answers.
Again, why would you not wail on the walls in the room with less fire? What an absurd stance…
Again, you already agreed she is the better option of the only 2 outcomes that will happen. Don’t twist my words ;)
That is incorrect. Lets say the polls show, Green 15%, Democrat 40%, Republican 45%, and the Greens say, “We’ll endorse the Democrats if and only if they do X.” You have not addressed why this is not a viable strategy at all. Saying “no shot” doesn’t make it true.
That’s not the same thing. You’re conflating “being able to win this election” with “being able to ever change things.” It’s possible to change things without winning, and it’s possible for future elections to be different. You’re taking a much more limited claim and expanding it to a much larger one that I never agreed with.
If anything, it’d be better to wail on the walls in the room with more fire, to die quicker. But the point is that that doesn’t matter, the only thing that matters is escape.
And as I already stated, “better” does not mean “acceptable.” In the same way if you push a vegan into saying beef is better than pork, that doesn’t mean they consider beef an acceptable food.
Yeah, people already explained to you that you can choose neither beef nor pork and you will get neither beef nor pork, but if you choose neither the geriatric loony nor the sane candidate, you will still definitely get one of them. The vegan analogy is bogus because it’s a scenario in which there’s a free choice from a vast number of options. You keep saying you want neither, but you can’t have neither. You have to have one of them as president.
What a vegan wants isn’t just to not eat either pork or beef, but for neither animal to be killed. You can kill them anyway, but that doesn’t mean I have to eat. Same way, you can elect whichever of the awful candidates you want, but I don’t have to support them.
Still doesn’t compare.
If 10% of citizens who care about animals consistently don’t eat pork or beef, the food industry reduces production and fewer pigs and cows get slaughtered for food.
If 10% of citizens who care about Palestinians don’t vote, Trump wins and it’s in Netanyahu’s interest to prolong, advance and widen his genocidal flattening of Gaza, extend it to the whole of the West Bank, wipe out as much of Lebanon as he can and take the war to Iran. That and all the turning the military on left wing citizens, mass deportations, leaving women to lose their fertility or die for lack of healthcare nationality, put trans people in jail after calling them pedophiles and let their pedophile friends off scot free. Meanwhile the Democrats see that left wingers don’t vote and the only votes they can chase are “centrists” and adopt more right wing policies because nothing moves the Overton window right more than a right wing government and there’s no loopy logic that’ll get you out of that reality.
If those 10% vote for Kamala Harris she continues to call publicly and privately for a ceasefire, and if the Democrats win both the House and the Senate they have the chance to actually change stuff and shit like the republicans’ new law removing the president’s power to delay and shipments gets washed away and there’s a chance, albeit small, that Harris is in power long enough and securely enough to do as you advocate and pressurise Netanyahu to stop, but there’s zero chance of that if she loses.
There’s no third option. It’s either Trump winning and everything getting worse, especially in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, the Middle East generally and the USA in particular, or Kamala winning and things getting marginally better.
Vegans make a positive difference by refusing both.
People like you make things much, much worse by refusing both.
We’ve been over this, in the other thread where you can’t address my point. Biden and Harris have no interest in stopping what’s happening in Gaza, they fully support unconditional arms shipments to Israel. This is where you call me a secret Trump supporter because there’s nothing you can say to that.
Aw gee, look at my post about electoral arithmetic vs vegan arithmetic that you ignore completely and tell me DEmoCRats eViL as usual, with your favourite one sided unfair misrepresentation served up as the usual non sequitur with a side of classic @OBJECTION!-style glossing over how much worse trump would be for Palestine, the world and the USA.