I would consider a different point of view which is that ICE is a much closer representation of the “American ideal” than where you and your community stand. A study of key events of U.S. history backs this up, in my opinion. The founding ideals had much more to do with the supremacy of white, land owning, christian men than anything else.
As time has passed I think the definition of “white” has been reshaped, and women have been brought in a bit closer, but the United States government has never stood for the equality of all people. This illusion was able to be maintained in much of the late 20th century by exporting the oppression of the underclass to people in other countries.
I’d encourage people to reflect on whether or not their ideals of equality of people were ever “American” in nature, or if it might be necessary to oppose the United States government to achieve this vision.
Even during the founding of the US there were abolitionists, anti-racists and what we would call today communist and anarchists. US history has been driven by the white supremacist’s agenda, but there has always been a strong push against it. The state has always been a minority as far as the number of people, and I think many ‘Americans’ do see the US as a bastion of freedom for refugees and people of all races. That has been the promoted image of the US, obviously we know the state doesn’t adhere to that idealized version but many people here do seem to see that image as the ‘true America’.
It is necessary to oppose that racist state, but the US government is not really representative of much of the nation of ‘America’.
Even during the founding of the US there were abolitionists, anti-racists and what we would call today communist and anarchists. US history has been driven by the white supremacist’s agenda, but there has always been a strong push against it.
Totally
I think many ‘Americans’ do see the US as a bastion of freedom for refugees and people of all races. That has been the promoted image of the US, obviously we know the state doesn’t adhere to that idealized version but many people here do seem to see that image as the ‘true America’.
Right, many people do see it that way. Particularly with the resources and modern interpretations we have available in 2026, we can look back through history and see how that was a lie (or at least “propaganda” of some form). It’s fine if you want it to be true, but in reality the US constitution did not build a truly democratic government structure (this was by design). I think current events (beyond the Donald Trump presidencies) clearly illustrate that nothing short of a new constitutional convention will be able to resolve this.
If there were a new constitution, it would no longer be the “United States of America” as we know it today, of course, it would be something else entirely.
If any suggestion of “consider this other point of view” provokes such a reaction, I guess you aren’t wrong, but isn’t that simple closed-mindedness on your part?
Is there anything I can clarify about what I meant?
Anyone who has read theory and applied to their worldview knows that class consciousness will naturally arise as the contradictions of capitalism continue to sharpen. I might be out ahead of some people are at, but I notice among my friends that what I say takes root and males more sense to them weeksnor months after the conversation.
I would consider a different point of view which is that ICE is a much closer representation of the “American ideal” than where you and your community stand. A study of key events of U.S. history backs this up, in my opinion. The founding ideals had much more to do with the supremacy of white, land owning, christian men than anything else.
As time has passed I think the definition of “white” has been reshaped, and women have been brought in a bit closer, but the United States government has never stood for the equality of all people. This illusion was able to be maintained in much of the late 20th century by exporting the oppression of the underclass to people in other countries.
I’d encourage people to reflect on whether or not their ideals of equality of people were ever “American” in nature, or if it might be necessary to oppose the United States government to achieve this vision.
Even during the founding of the US there were abolitionists, anti-racists and what we would call today communist and anarchists. US history has been driven by the white supremacist’s agenda, but there has always been a strong push against it. The state has always been a minority as far as the number of people, and I think many ‘Americans’ do see the US as a bastion of freedom for refugees and people of all races. That has been the promoted image of the US, obviously we know the state doesn’t adhere to that idealized version but many people here do seem to see that image as the ‘true America’.
It is necessary to oppose that racist state, but the US government is not really representative of much of the nation of ‘America’.
Totally
Right, many people do see it that way. Particularly with the resources and modern interpretations we have available in 2026, we can look back through history and see how that was a lie (or at least “propaganda” of some form). It’s fine if you want it to be true, but in reality the US constitution did not build a truly democratic government structure (this was by design). I think current events (beyond the Donald Trump presidencies) clearly illustrate that nothing short of a new constitutional convention will be able to resolve this.
If there were a new constitution, it would no longer be the “United States of America” as we know it today, of course, it would be something else entirely.
I’ll punch a Nazi with you, but that .ml tag tells me you’re too far off the deep end to have a meaningful conversation about this.
Why so rude? What is even the “deep end”?
If any suggestion of “consider this other point of view” provokes such a reaction, I guess you aren’t wrong, but isn’t that simple closed-mindedness on your part?
Is there anything I can clarify about what I meant?
You’re very nice to these propagandised sheep (and it’s the only way to consistently get your message across, ofc), thank you for your service.
We all started somewhere! Nobody is immune to propaganda.
I started as a libertarian… I was 15, but there’s hope for everyone.
Anyone who has read theory and applied to their worldview knows that class consciousness will naturally arise as the contradictions of capitalism continue to sharpen. I might be out ahead of some people are at, but I notice among my friends that what I say takes root and males more sense to them weeksnor months after the conversation.
“Being a leftist in America is being right first and having everyone be angry at you for it”