They’re not, they’re distinct concepts that are commonly found expressed in religious practices but are not in of themselves spiritual.
You acknowledged that Jungian archetypes are distinct concepts from religious practices and not in themselves spiritual. And yet you don’t understand why some people are saying “Tarot isn’t necessarily religious or spiritual”?
You say “it shares traits with many religious a nonreligious practices” as if you think that’s definitively concludes that it’s inherently religious.
And yet you openly avow satanism and write yourself a pass because it’s “secular” and you completely ignore the fact that by your same argument against tarot, i.e. that it “shares traits with many religious and nonreligious practices,” you would have to consider your own beliefs and practices under the same umbrella.
The confusion is definitely due to a fault on your part. No one else here is confused.
as if you think that’s definitively concludes that it’s inherently religious.
At no point did I do that.
You’ve incorrectly assumed my motivations and are allowing those assumptions to color this interaction. You’re treating this as though I have made the assertion that Tarot is always a religious practice, something I haven’t done. Tarot reading is a religious practice as much as confession is - it can be absolutely be performed without the spiritual aspects (in this case that would be tarot not used as a prophecy but a form of self-reflective meditation). This is something I have personal doubts as to the strict accuracy of but which I would never presume to use to dismiss someone else’s claims about using it in that manner; Hence why I asked the original poster about why they consider it not a religious practice.
This is wholly in line with my own nominal belief in satanism (in my case something that is almost entirely a political/social statement and a means of community organization (i.e. not adherence to a philosophy), but that’s not supremely relevant). I do, I suspect, consider it under the same broad umbrella (although the lack of spiritual adherence in satanism is far more the norm than it is with Tarot - in most branches it’s even explict. I strongly suspect that the secular use of tarot is in the extreme minority comparably) but the aspect of the conversation you’ve weighed in on has had no attempt at explanation, just random assertions and dismissal.
You have waded in to attack, dismiss and arguably insult me - based off your own misunderstanding of what I’m trying to achieve. The confusion is not mine, and honestly the fault here isn’t mine either. You’re being a jerk.
Then what point are you even trying to make? What is it you’re “trying to achieve”? Why even leave your original comment
Maybe… you should say that to your friend, instead of using your shared religious beliefs that convince them to stay in a shitty relationship…?
The only person wading into attack on this thread is you, and although multiple people have pointed that out you’ve consistently relied on DARVO to accuse them of attacking you, when you’re the one attacking OP and the concept of Tarot in the first place.
You’re calling it a religious practice based on your own set of definitions, while simultaneously carving out exceptions for your own quasi-religious practice. This indicates that you’re clearly either incapable or unwilling to hear the perspectives of others and what their interests mean to them, and you have this exclusivist mentality where only you can be right.
You’re a fucking narcissist. Anton LaVey would be proud 👏👏
I haven’t attacked tarot or OP, what?? Calling it a religious practice isn’t an attack, and my initial comment was criticizing the behavior of someone using tarot to avoid being direct with their friend, it in no way criticized tarot directly.
The only person wading into attack on this thread is you, and although multiple people have pointed that out you’ve consistently relied on DARVO
I’m sorry, can you provide a single example of someone else doing that? At this point the only person I’ve seen even accuse me of attacking anyone is you.
The entire humor of the post is about OP’s directness, so I don’t know what you’re on about.
And since you’re still intent on ignoring the realities of the conversation in this thread, and twisting everything to make yourself sound like a victim, I’m done with you.
So what, you were just trying to gaslight me with other people accusing me of DARVO…?
I welcome you being done with this conversation, but jeeze, trying to tell me what my motivations are instead of listening to me is a pretty shitty thing to do. Not sure how else to describe it besides “you misinterpreted an attacked me”.
Not really. A good portion of DARVO requries a rejection of evidence - I’ve asked you for evidence and you’ve refused to give it to me. You’ve also blatantly lied about other interactions in this thread, and when I accused you of being a jerk, you started attacking me: calling me a narcissist, implying I should delete my comment, saying I lack self awareness, etc. Even your initial interaction was attempting to weaponize my admission of confusion as somehow a negative thing - shaming me for admitting I was confused by saying it’s okay for me to admit I’m confused, which is the thing I had just done.
You’re even asserting that by calling Tarot religious or spirtual - and I hate to point this out, but this is in the context of a meme posted to an occult community so it’s not exactly unfair of me to make the association - I’m somehow attacking it and the person that posted it, instead of criticizing the implied behavior of the hypothetical person in the meme. And to be clear, I’ve never made the claim that Tarot is inherently spiritual - elsewhere in this thread I’ve made that explicitly clear, as well as in my replies to you. That it is a religious or spiritual practice does not make the claim that it is always a religious practice.
You’ve come into this combative and accusatory, and are continuing to exemplify the behavior you are accusing me of.
I haven’t refused to give you evidence. It’s all over the thread, and you refuse to see it. Just because you’re being dishonest by denying other interactions that happened in this thread that everyone else can clearly see, doesn’t make me a liar for pointing them out. Get over your victim complex.
I thought you said you were done with this conversation? Apparently that wasn’t true, but I am.
You literally said:
You acknowledged that Jungian archetypes are distinct concepts from religious practices and not in themselves spiritual. And yet you don’t understand why some people are saying “Tarot isn’t necessarily religious or spiritual”?
You say “it shares traits with many religious a nonreligious practices” as if you think that’s definitively concludes that it’s inherently religious.
And yet you openly avow satanism and write yourself a pass because it’s “secular” and you completely ignore the fact that by your same argument against tarot, i.e. that it “shares traits with many religious and nonreligious practices,” you would have to consider your own beliefs and practices under the same umbrella.
The confusion is definitely due to a fault on your part. No one else here is confused.
At no point did I do that.
You’ve incorrectly assumed my motivations and are allowing those assumptions to color this interaction. You’re treating this as though I have made the assertion that Tarot is always a religious practice, something I haven’t done. Tarot reading is a religious practice as much as confession is - it can be absolutely be performed without the spiritual aspects (in this case that would be tarot not used as a prophecy but a form of self-reflective meditation). This is something I have personal doubts as to the strict accuracy of but which I would never presume to use to dismiss someone else’s claims about using it in that manner; Hence why I asked the original poster about why they consider it not a religious practice.
This is wholly in line with my own nominal belief in satanism (in my case something that is almost entirely a political/social statement and a means of community organization (i.e. not adherence to a philosophy), but that’s not supremely relevant). I do, I suspect, consider it under the same broad umbrella (although the lack of spiritual adherence in satanism is far more the norm than it is with Tarot - in most branches it’s even explict. I strongly suspect that the secular use of tarot is in the extreme minority comparably) but the aspect of the conversation you’ve weighed in on has had no attempt at explanation, just random assertions and dismissal.
You have waded in to attack, dismiss and arguably insult me - based off your own misunderstanding of what I’m trying to achieve. The confusion is not mine, and honestly the fault here isn’t mine either. You’re being a jerk.
Then what point are you even trying to make? What is it you’re “trying to achieve”? Why even leave your original comment
The only person wading into attack on this thread is you, and although multiple people have pointed that out you’ve consistently relied on DARVO to accuse them of attacking you, when you’re the one attacking OP and the concept of Tarot in the first place.
You’re calling it a religious practice based on your own set of definitions, while simultaneously carving out exceptions for your own quasi-religious practice. This indicates that you’re clearly either incapable or unwilling to hear the perspectives of others and what their interests mean to them, and you have this exclusivist mentality where only you can be right.
You’re a fucking narcissist. Anton LaVey would be proud 👏👏
I haven’t attacked tarot or OP, what?? Calling it a religious practice isn’t an attack, and my initial comment was criticizing the behavior of someone using tarot to avoid being direct with their friend, it in no way criticized tarot directly.
I’m sorry, can you provide a single example of someone else doing that? At this point the only person I’ve seen even accuse me of attacking anyone is you.
The entire humor of the post is about OP’s directness, so I don’t know what you’re on about.
And since you’re still intent on ignoring the realities of the conversation in this thread, and twisting everything to make yourself sound like a victim, I’m done with you.
So what, you were just trying to gaslight me with other people accusing me of DARVO…?
I welcome you being done with this conversation, but jeeze, trying to tell me what my motivations are instead of listening to me is a pretty shitty thing to do. Not sure how else to describe it besides “you misinterpreted an attacked me”.
Accusations in a mirror, much? Are you doing this on purpose or do you have zero self-awareness?
Not really. A good portion of DARVO requries a rejection of evidence - I’ve asked you for evidence and you’ve refused to give it to me. You’ve also blatantly lied about other interactions in this thread, and when I accused you of being a jerk, you started attacking me: calling me a narcissist, implying I should delete my comment, saying I lack self awareness, etc. Even your initial interaction was attempting to weaponize my admission of confusion as somehow a negative thing - shaming me for admitting I was confused by saying it’s okay for me to admit I’m confused, which is the thing I had just done.
You’re even asserting that by calling Tarot religious or spirtual - and I hate to point this out, but this is in the context of a meme posted to an occult community so it’s not exactly unfair of me to make the association - I’m somehow attacking it and the person that posted it, instead of criticizing the implied behavior of the hypothetical person in the meme. And to be clear, I’ve never made the claim that Tarot is inherently spiritual - elsewhere in this thread I’ve made that explicitly clear, as well as in my replies to you. That it is a religious or spiritual practice does not make the claim that it is always a religious practice.
You’ve come into this combative and accusatory, and are continuing to exemplify the behavior you are accusing me of.
I haven’t refused to give you evidence. It’s all over the thread, and you refuse to see it. Just because you’re being dishonest by denying other interactions that happened in this thread that everyone else can clearly see, doesn’t make me a liar for pointing them out. Get over your victim complex.
I thought you said you were done with this conversation? Apparently that wasn’t true, but I am.