I forgot that this is still a Lemmy.world community where somehow it is never the right time to try and get the Democratic party to try or care to earn their votes.
Always to close to an election or to far from one, or not worth it to make them fear for their win instead of blind support.We can’t try something new because what we have been trying doesnt work and we have to make it work before we are allowed to change strategy.
What an insane take.The time to criticize Democratic party is when you run, support, canvas for a better candidate, (better candidate in the framework of Democratic party, since US is a two-party system at the moment). If you’re doing nothing for a year and just start shitting on the party when it’s close to elections, you’re a willing on unwilling conservative supporter, it’s simple as that.
If you believe that you will be able to just get third party going, not only you’re braindead, you actually don’t care about lives of other people, and optics are more important than people to you, which makes you a bad person with bad morals.
If you just sit around, waiting for a good candidate to materialise before your eyes, you’re just braindead.
That’s why Dems only run establishment boring candidates and don’t want to change anything, because their support is steady and consistent.Your lack of awareness does not extend to everyone else and you seem to be waiting for others to do enough work to give you an easy candidate that already has everything figured out.
Well we are trying so you can stop complaining and ignore us till we do then. I do not need nor care for your input or lack of effort.
It is interesting that Democrats are already in Blue MAGA mode while we are still 2 years away from the election. Last time they pretended to care about Dems running a non corrupt candidate up until 6 months before the election.
Is it? They don’t like anyone questioning their rich assholes. Never have and they never will. To use your 1st amendment rights means you’re actually a Russian troll, or a Tankie, or whatever their favorite talking head told them to not question but accept blindly.
It’s a trait of liberal politics in the States, I guess.
Republicans and Republican voters gravitate towards “loyalty” to popular leaders. We could dissect that all day (especially the ties to U.S. Christianity and the media environment), but that’s just how its been; Trump only made it more apparent. He’s basically Jesus now.
Democrats and Democrat voters, on the other hand, seem to fracture, dump their leaders, and cling to more personal ideologies at the drop of a hat. Everyone fails each other’s political purity tests and becomes the enemy. Hence when this inevitably comes up, Democrafts can’t actually get any unity around reform, and the corpo money wins.
In a healthier system, I’d argue this is a good thing (as worshipping idols is problematic), but its a huge political disadvantage right now.
That’s not really true at all. Republican voters are the ones who wanted - and demanded - to have Trump as the nominee. Many establishment figures in the RNC did not want him. However, if they had taken steps to deny him the nomination, there’s a very real chance that he would have run third party and split the vote, which he threatened to do several times. Hell, his supporters showed up to the 2016 convention armed and in numbers, in part in case the establishment tried something last minute.
On the Democrats’ side, the DNC have basically hand-picked establishment candidates for the past three elections, and they do it because they expect people to bend the knee and fall in line behind the lesser evil. Bernie was never going to run third party, and his supporters were never going to show up with guns at the convention. He actively campaigned for Hilary and they still blamed him, even though the number of Bernie-Trump voters was much smaller than the number of Clinton-McCain ones, and Clinton sure as hell didn’t stump for Barack.
If Republicans are more loyal to the Republican party, it’s because the party responded to what they wanted. And the reason that they did so is because the “my way or the highway” mentality is so much more prevalent on the right. Liberals cannot ever shut up about the “lesser evil” and making the “rational” choice, while Conservatives don’t give a fuck about that shit. Conservatives don’t masturbate over how they’re so rational that they’ll humbly accept things they find morally abhorrent in order to prevent a greater evil the way liberals do, they say, “You can take my guns out of my cold dead hands,” and their politicians listen to those red lines, at least to a degree.
Meanwhile, establishment Democrats have an actively hostile relationship with the left, and liberals still demand that we support them unconditionally.
I disagree. Not about the party loyalty to republicans but to the idea that people drop leaders for some perceived purity test.
I think it is a useful myth that excuses the behavior without looking into it more.People want leaders that support and help them the individual. We are focusing on social ideology instead of financial which is the primary driving factor for Republican voters too. They are just more communal and expect members of their perceived community to be helpful to them and are taught to leave it to a higher power to solve.
Anyways, the Democratic party is not picking policy that is big tent. They are picking stuff that is hyper specific sub groups based on cultural aspects and invites awareness of whether you are in or not. It makes it appear fractured cause we are rallied as sub cultures under a fiscal conservative umbrella. If the policies were pushed as supporting the financially underserved it would be easier to recognize yourself as belonging but it would impact the financial support of billionaires which the party actually courts.
It appears we can’t win cause we are trying to play the same policies the republicans do under a guise of social structures need to be fixed instead of financial ones. Push for policies that are big tent and makes it easy to the average person to see them belonging in (poor) and thr support will come but the policies will need to change to. So which comes first?
It needs to be politicians cause no one will trust to elect the other way around.
If your reaction to this is outrage, you’re politically juvenile. It’s early 2026, this is exactly the time to be doing this kind of politics. If you already now signal to the Democratic Party establishment your capitulation, why should your concerns even be taken into account. Piker is putting the gun on the table at exactly the right time. Grow up.
Piker isn’t doing anything. If you think what Hasan, the textbook champagne socialist does is political action, that explains a lot.
What a bizarre response. Nowhere did I claim that he’s an organizer. Public political speech by a prominent political broadcast commentator (yea that’s what “viral streaming influencer” used to be called in the 1900s) is …not nothing. Saying he isn’t doing anything is like saying that political speech doesn’t do anything.
Edit: you added the champagne socialist bit. Do I look like I care about this guy personally? He’s an influential political commentator that made a good point. In this thread it drew reactions from the “blu no matter whu” crowd and I called that out. That’s it.
Doing this kind of politics
He isn’t doing any kind of politics. He’s virtue-signaling.
My sibling in christ, even virtue signaling is a kind of politics.
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You’re judging his internal state of mind and disposition. I don’t give a flipping fuck about it right now. Even if he is just a champagne socialist virtue signaling, the objectively observable thing is “popular influencer is putting a political blackmail of the dem establishment in the discourse agenda”. Even under your set of assumptions his champaign socialist virtue signaling is not without real political impact.
I mean fuck, an even shallower piece of nothing is sitting in the white house and his vapid brainfarts are for sure creating political impacts.
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I’m not opposed to it, but unless he (or others) can get a mass movement behind a third party candidate and we still don’t have rank choice, I’m probably voting for the ticket that is least likely to give Republicans power.
So you’re saying that a corporate Democrat is a spoiler candidate?
Those things will not happen so the only leverage you have against Democrats is demanding them to fulfill your demands in exchange for your vote.
Demanding things is not what is being discussed here. Actions with consequence are being discussed.
What is being discussed here is demands. The demand for Democrats to listen to their voters, or once again take a massive L because they prefer glazing their donors to beating Republicans.
Hes not asking them to listen hes saying fuck off. The only question of relevance is will you vote for trump or against him in a first past the post election. Knowing you could have lessened damage and chose not to.
Trump will not even go to jail for pedophilia that’s how shitty the USA is. If there was consequences Biden, Trump, Obama , Bush would all rot in pridon or being executed for war crimes
Im not talking about positive consequemces. Were so far from those right now. Im talking about minimizing and trying to stop the burning. Triage minimal sustainable checks and balances. Some form of turn from insanity. That is where we are rigbt now
What is going on? Do you want change? Well establishment dems showed thier belly and don’t care to fight trump. Hasan is right. A third party socialist “im gonna prosecute the previous administration” candidate. Is infinitly better than the jackass establishment democrats we have now
O you wanna vote for Gavin Newsome because he “owned trump on twitter” give me a fucking break.
wanna vote for Gavin Newsome because he “owned trump on twitter” give me a fucking break.
Not even him, his pr people
He’s right. Establishment dems have shown themselves repeatedly to not be capable of opposing a fascist agenda, and recent elections have shown that its not even the safe bet anymore. An establishment candidate is just doom at this point, might as well vote 3rd party and have a tiny shot
Progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates. So they have proven themselves repeatedly to not be capable of opposing a fascist agenda.
Without the Democratic Party there would be no progressive party. There aren’t enough progressive voters or candidates.
This is the same mistake progressives have made year after year. They are tricked into throwing away their vote and as a result the government slides further right.
They pretend like they can win nation wide by cherry picking examples of progressives like Mamdani or Bernie winning in blue states as if that reflects how the rest of the country votes. It does not.
This is used to trick them into thinking they can win without the support of the rest of the voters that aren’t leftists. They cannot as proven by election results.
In reality, progressives only have enough numbers to tip the scales in favor of the GOP by not voting. The majority of voters are centrists or right wing. And for some stupid reason, leftists think they can change the leadership in a democracy by ignoring what centrists want.
Not at all. Democrats literally did not hold a primary in 2024 because the establishment would be crushed by non establishment candidates and they knew it.
No, they didn’t hold a primary because they had the incumbent advantage. You don’t weaken your own incumbent candidate by running people against them in the primary. That’s basic electoral politics.
Same reason they didn’t have a primary in 2012.
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The answer to this isn’t to throw up our hands and give up, it’s to get more voters to come over to the left.
Exactly. Terminally online leftists who believe they’re a far more powerful and influential bloc than they are (especially since they never fucking vote in primaries and only start whining during general elections) think that Democrats need to pander to them 100% of the time, and they lose when they do not.
They have no fucking idea how politics in the real world actually works.
Had the Democratic party courted their votes the way they demand, the Democrats would have received fewer votes. I’m confident of this.
Not only would so many of these people still stayed home because it’s never perfect enough for them, they would have lost a shit ton of centrist voters.
AIPAC is powerful for a reason. Unfortunately, there are tons of people in this country that are only just now beginning to come around on Israel.
And those people vote every fucking time.
Millions of people that voted D would have stayed home had Harris came out strong against Israel, and hardly any leftists would be convinced to get off their ass or vote for anyone but third party.
Sucks that this is how it is, but this is first past the post in a nation full of politically illiterate morons
If there were ever an election to not vote third party in, I’d argue it’s these upcoming elections. They are effectively over the validity of the constitution itself, since the Republicans have clearly demonstrated they have no intention to follow it. A vote for Democrats isn’t a vote for Democrats as much as a vote against fascism.
The system itself is incredibly flawed and the Democrats are truly spineless. I have zero hope that they’d do anything to actually fix the system’s problems, but when the alternative is becoming even more like Nazi Germany I don’t see how voting third party could have any benefit. With the recently increased federal voter ID requirements beyond normal registration I worry that it may be too late to have truly free and fair elections already.
If there were ever an election to not vote third party in, I’d argue it’s these upcoming elections
So when are we allowed to? I’ve been hearing that since 2008, and in my first election of 2012. When are we allowed to vote for who we want? Democracy isn’t allowed.
If there were ever an election to not vote third party in, I’d argue it’s these upcoming elections. They are effectively over the validity of the constitution itself
Every election… For a fucking decade. You say this, for every fucking election.
So the same argument as literally every single election.
If you are voting for a party because they hold you hostage you are not living in a democracy to begin with.
If there were ever an election to not vote third party in, I’d argue it’s these upcoming elections.
It never fucking ends with you people…
As somebody who has viewed Hasan Piker’s stream from time to time for years…I feel that even though he says this, and will likely continue to say it for two and a half years, he will “pull the lever” for whoever the D candidate is on Nov 7. 2028. This assumes that the Dem party and mainstream media don’t just stand by and let the GOP suspend elections in 2028.
The dems will have to work hard to lose the next election, but you know they will find a way.
He did not endorse Kamala Haris last time around because Kamala refused to budge on supporting genocide.
Oh yeah. I forgot about 3rd parties. Everyone arguing to vote for them have since stopped caring I guess.
Until there is a loud, constant demand from a broad base that persists well beyond voting periods this 3rd party BS is just 2 parties trying to waste your vote. I want 3rd parties to come in and give the establishment competition. We’ll never see it happen at this rate.
Kamala was too establishment for him so instead of having candidates that don’t fight fascism hard enough, we have fascism itself. I also want better candidates, but unlike this dumbass I recognize that directly giving the fascists all the power is in fact worse.
When your choice is eating someone else’s shit or drinking your own piss, vote for piss and change people’s minds so that the next election is between piss and ice cream instead.
Holocaust Harris was also a fascist.
vote for piss and change people’s minds so that the next election is between piss and ice cream instead.
Lol, that was your argument in the 2020 election. Instead it turns out that voting for piss just gets you more piss.
That’s the point, were 3 years out and it would be a tossup if we ran another California politician vs trump or vance. He’s suggesting we setup a candidate now that has wide popular support and preferably outside the (pathetic failing) democratic establishment instead of the hail mary that is newsom.
Good to know he likes getting NOTHING with his vote and helping fascists retain power.
How about this fool uses his money and influence to help a 3rd party start winning local/state elections, so that one day (not 2028) they can have SOME members in Congress and stand a chance at winning a presidential election.
That would be better than whining about the reality he exists in and letting everyone know he’s going to shit on his vote and flush it down the toilet.
Whining about reality and not voting or voting 3rd party is why a felon rapist pedo is in charge and Americans are being executed in the streets by a masked unaccountable federal agency.
Sticking it to the Dems is a child’s reaction.
What have the Dems done since 2016 that actually helped? They didn’t arrest Trump for breaking the law. They didn’t keep COVID protections. They didn’t keep abortion. They didn’t legalize cannabis. They didn’t push for any major changes to stop trump or another guy like him.
But they gladly kept breaking the law for Israel’s genocide. And to build the border wall Trump wanted. And to keep children in cages. And to find ICE.
But sure, I’m sure next election we’ll have a Democrat who actually changes things. For sure. I will just ignore every time I was told that for over 10 years of voting.
Ah yes, because voting for Democrats for all these years clearly worked out great for you right? The same democrats who did jack shit to Trump during their term, and lost to him just 1 term later, making him only the 2nd US president to ever win an election non-consecutively. Keep believing doing the same shit you did for years will eventually change something. I am sureee it will be different this time.
You are arguing that 3rd parties will not win. How will they ever win, if nobody votes for them because they will never win?
It’s like they get zapped with an amnesia ray right after every election, and are prohibited from reading about history. I guess four years is a long time and reading is hard. Better vote blue because who knows what might happen if you don’t!
Historical facts is a lie made up by leftists to sway voters away from the party that enables fascism.
https://jacobin.com/2026/02/democrats-ice-reforms-funding-bill/
nah the dems are totally working to stop trump by making ice more police like rather than doing anything to stop them
How about “we hold them accountable or I literally don’t want this country to exist anymore.”
How about “vote blue no matter who got us here you braindead fuckwit.”
How about "voting for an establishment dem, who have shown repeatedly to be, by and large, aiding and abetting a fascist takeover of the country, would be the single stupidest thing you could do. Even above trying to straighten that crook in your dick out with a hair straightener.
Establishment Dems’ campaign is basically: “It votes for whatever shitty candidate we ram through the primaries or else it gets the Trump again.”
And weve gotten him twice now. So hows the third party voting going for you all
So the argument is that third parties shouldn’t run because they get no votes, but Democrats lost twice to a talk show baffoon because people voted for a third party?
DNC is a slow learner, apparently
People like Hasan are not interested in political action, they just want to jeer from the sidelines.
The Democrats are not interested in political action. They want your vote for free without doing anything in return.
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sounds like you gotta do something about your countries voting system. im sure the dems will get around to it :)
They take plenty of political action, you just don’t like it or ignore it.
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Like his student loan forgiveness achievement?.
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Genocide supporting Liberals are still in denial from 2024 and refuse to learn any lesson from it.
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Still not learning. Some kids really were left behind
You seem like a DNC policy wonk
I am not even an american or give a fuck about DNC. It is basic math for a flawed electoral system. If you dont vote against Trump(or his successor), they will win. And the only alternative is the Democratic Party.
Your first priority as an american is to prevent the re-election of literal nazis. Your second priority is to change the “first past the post” electoral system. And then, once you remove the nazis out of government and have a functional electoral system, we can talk about third parties.
How can in good faith vote for a third party? What effect would that have? A vote for a third party, is a vote for the republicans. You assume that this would force the democratic party to lean more left? Bro, you probably wont even have free and fair elections, what are you talking about. We are not in a “we must change the democratic party” phase of reality, we are in “the next elections might not happen” phase.
We are not in a “we must change the democratic party” phase of reality, we are in “the next elections might not happen” phase.
Every election for a decade
I forgot when Bush or Obama literally said they would run for another term. I still have my Obama 2016 hat.
If you think that Trump 2 is anything like any other presidency(including Trump’s first term), then i dont know what to say.
If you think that Trump 2 is anything like any other presidency(including Trump’s first term), then i dont know what to say.
Yeah, I’ve been hearing this cop out every election for several decades.
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Jill Stein send her regards. You’ll expect to hear from her again in the next election.
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You mean magician Jill Stein, who randomly appears right before an election, gets a whopping 0.5% of the total votes cast, then magically disappears again until the next election?
You mean we shouldn’t be placing our faith in these extremely reliable 3rd party candidates from parties that have no actual interest in becoming viable?
That can’t be right. I’m going to go ahead and vote for a candidate that can’t give me anything because they literally can’t win or just get big mad and not vote at all.
Don’t you mean magician Harris who dissapeared after her loss then only reappeared to sell her shitty book? Jill never disappeared she is still being vocal about what she cares about including the american gestspo ICE.
Harris do not realize that if the american Hitler Trump succeed to instaure a dictatoeship she would be one of the first political prisoners to be kidnapped
No! You can’t bring up how Harris gave up on trying anything!! Only their myths, no facts!
Jill Stein has aged like fine wine. Still on the right side about almost everything. But we do not hear any media talking about what she says anymore because the Blue MAGA narrative is that she appears out of thin air after four years and that must remain intact.
Nobody’s talking about what she says because she has an incosequentially small audience and does nothing to build it up.
Reminder that Jill Stein, the most popular 3rd party candidate, only got 0.5% of the total votes cast.
Proving there is no viable 3rd party in America and won’t be for a long, long time.
If she’s so unpopular, why do you care about her? She didn’t affect any election according to you.
I love that “banned from the community” banner you’re sporting. It makes every one of your comments into happy ones.
Also proving thst Harris lost because of the issue of economy and borders not anti genocide people
She should sell out to large donors so she can buy ads like the Democrats then you will like her.
Whaaaa my preferred candidate is unpopular and it’s everyone else’s fault
But your favourite candidate also lost but it’s not her fault according to you, it is everybody else fault. See how hypocritical you are?
Did you rehearse that shadowboxing routine in the shower?
What this has to do with anything?
Nice projection of your own argument.
“Projection of your own argument”?
What is that even supposed to mean…
You are complaining about people not voting for Newsom because Newsom is not popular but then pretend other people whine about their candidate being unpopular not being the candidates fault.
Fr, funny how these alt-left mfers love democracy except when it turns out their candidate just doesn’t have the votes. If Jill Stein couldn’t win a majority of left voters via a primary, then how is she going to win a national election? And why can’t these alt-left parties ever start grassroots movements at the local level, instead they only care about presidential elections and just want to skip straight to the endorsement without winning any primaries, and if they can’t do that then they take their ball and go home?
This would be funny if Kamala also never won a primary and was the Democratic candidate for the 2024 general election.
If Jill Stein couldn’t win a majority of left voters via a primary, then how is she going to win a national election?
Stop. You’re hurting their feelings and that’s going to force them to blow their vote on a 3rd party or not vote again, leading to more conservative fascism.
And why can’t these alt-left parties ever start grassroots movements at the local level, instead they only care about presidential elections and just want to skip straight to the endorsement without winning any primaries
You’re confusing them with logic. You’re going to boil their brains. Please have mercy.
Because, like I said, they have no ambitions of political influence. Only virtue-signaling and purity-testing.
Only virtue-signaling and purity-testing.
Bingo.
It’s the whole Palestine thing. They chose not to vote or vote 3rd party, which helped put the side objectively worse for Palestine in control, because they never actually cared about Palestine. They only cared about their own feelings. Their own self satisfaction.
No need, just a few dinners with Putin, and suddenly she’s flush
Hello, senator McCarthy.
Cool comment.
Doesn’t make Jill Stein electable.
But it does for Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris magically.
didn’t one of her campaign runners say that Kamala winning the election would be worse than trump winning… imo Jill Stein is a horrible candidate
here’s the first article I found on Google. like if u think Kamala and Trump are equally bad you might be delusional. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/jill-stein-sees-no-lesser-evil-between-harris-trump-interview-2024-10-07/
Kamala praised hitler Gaza surrender plan. She is more pro trump than anybody here
this is delusional speak. I don’t like her gaza “plan” but compared to trump she is better in literally every aspect. (remember you are literally comparing her to a fascist)
She agreed with trump plan and her plan was to let israel destroy the rest of Gaza
Ehh, Jill Stein really isn’t that great. John Oliver has also made a bit on her. Howie Hawkins was a really great candidate though
Establishment jetster John Oliver did a bit on her? Well then let me discard all the facts and activism Jill Stein has partaken in.
Nah; that was just to show how easy it is to inform yourself before you spread nonsense like that
JILL STEIN CAN’T WIN ELECTIONS.
JILL STEIN CAN’T WIN ELECTIONS.
JILL STEIN CAN’T WIN ELECTIONS.
Let me know how many more times I need to say this before it penetrates the 3 inch thick reinforced steel that is your skull.
JILL STEIN CAN’T WIN ELECTIONS.
JILL STEIN CAN’T WIN ELECTIONS.
Harris and Clinton did, right? That’s why they’re president?
Can you type it for Kamala Harris as well?
Nor can Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton, apparently.
Because he is a Trump supporter
Big brain analysis right here. Libs really just want to keep repeating the past instead of actually fixing the problem.
How will giving Republicans another term fix any problem?
The Democrats will learn that they will not win unless fulfill voters demands beyond “not Republicans”.
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Do you feel comfortable Democrats have learned any lesson? They voted to fund it.
Clearly they would support this if Harris did it. Why else do they ignore Biden’s broken promises and genocide? They like it when Blue Team does it.
They claim that Harris wouldn’t be as bad as Trump for Palestinians yet when you show them that Harris support Trump terrible Palestinian surrender plan they just ignore and deflect
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Can we simply ban those genocide supporters?
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Ban people I don’t like
I don’t want for people I disagree with to be banned I want to people supporting genocide and war criminals like you do just like we ban Nazis , racists , supremacists etc…
Yes, that makes you look like less of a baby.
Say the guy who still cry that his bitch losing the elections
You’re right, allowing Trump to take over then end elections and put a resort on Gaza beach was the real big brain move.
Wonder who flattened all of Gaza did that happen under Trump?
Those guys just want the extermination of Palestine
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If you have not even caught up with that I would recommend not advising on politics.
Dark future still thinks it’s 2016.
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Joe Biden flattened Gaza with his bombs. The IDF could not do anything like that by themselves. Gavin Newsom supports the genocide as well.
You never learn from AIPAC and you do not care. You do not wish to change it you simply wish to continue the genocide but with treats for yourself. No politician will change after an election. They always move even more towards Israel after the election because they have no more voters to appeal to.
You should have learned your lesson in 2024. Now you have Trump. Try thinking about what the lesson before you type another comment stanning for genocide. Might not be the winning strategy after all.
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If progressives knew anything about how to win they would actually win for a change
If harris new anything abour winning she would have won
The IDF flattened Gaza
With Trump and Biden aids
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Typical the devil made me do it bullshit . So Aipac has too much influence on politics so it is ok for Harris and Biden to support Israel and it’s genocidal campaign but at the same time it is not ok for Trump to support Israel because aipac has too much influence on American politics . The idea that you can’t win if you oppose Israel is just an illusion. Mamdani show that it is just a myth
I don’t give a damn about your trashy excuses. If you gives money to a genocidal state you are pro genocide simple as that and if you support candidates that support a genocidal state you are also pro genocide whatever it is trump, Harris or Trump
And harris praised his plan. If she won she would have just let israel destroy the last 5% of cropland and farm land and the last 30% of lasting structures
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Israels bitch Kamala own words
She said the bound between the terrorist state of Israel and the united snakes is unbreakable. She said .
She promised a broad and bipartisan support for Israel
security and right to self-defense(aka maintaining the settler colonialism project).She expresses her support for Obama $38 billion military assistance package
She promised to fight
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