Archive article: https://archive.is/ThCGt
The documentary in the article: https://youtu.be/RP8Oxe6OxJc
It’s the Bernie-Trump pipeline working in reverse. Because offering real solutions to people’s problems works. Who woulda fucking thunk.
There wasn’t really a Bernie-Trump pipeline in the first place. There were articles about how more Bernie primary supporters backed Clinton than Clinton primary supporters backed Obama. Additionally, many people interested in Bernie were GOP to Bernie to begin with.
Bernie to Clinton info below is likely higher since it’s 2 months before the comparable Obama numbers. I can’t find the article I’m thinking of with a direct comparison but it had the same findings after the general iirc.
Bernie to Clinton 85% https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/12/sanders-supporters-clinton-vote-survey
Clinton to Obama 81% https://news.gallup.com/poll/109957/obama-gains-among-former-clinton-supporters.aspx
Similar info about the Bernie/clinton divide: https://acbc89.medium.com/more-sanders-voters-backed-clinton-than-her-own-supporters-backed-obama-c5dc37658fe5
There wasn’t really a Bernie-Trump pipeline in the first place.
There was. Now this isn’t a massive election-deciding group, but it’s an interesting phenomenon that tells us a lot about the audience for progressive politics.
Direct quote from your link: “By every estimate, Obama-Trump—voters who had previously voted for Barack Obama but voted for Trump in 2016—vastly outnumber Sanders-to-Trump voters, accounting for about 14% of Trump’s total vote.”
The X-Trump pipeline rhetoric is never brought up outside of sanders and does not take into account sanders took supporters from the GOP to begin with. It’s not shocking some people take inconsistent political action. What is shocking is that people are accepting the idea of there being a “pipeline”. It’s like when they write whole articles on 5 tweets and people eat it up. This is not a real concern and per your link Obama voters are more susceptible. It’s not a relevant point except that exciting candidates get a certain amount of people excited regardless of what side they are on.
libs still hanging on to bernie is fucking retarded… how about someone younger than 1000?
It doesn’t have to be Bernie himself - he’s ancient, no argue about that. He’s got solid, unwavering values that he’s held for decades. He promotes and endorses liberal policies that are good for the nation. The takeaway is that liberal policies are popular and they excite people. Heading for the center bores everyone.
Like who?
Elizabeth Warren
People act like Franklin wasn’t 80 when he was president. Electing skeletons to head the world’s most influential country is a tradition as old as time.
Do you mean FDR? Because he was 63 when he died. Ben Franklin was never a president.
The point is; what the fuck is OP complaining about? Bernie going to West Virginia and helping people pull their heads out of their asses?
so is slavery.
like any white man <50 who isn’t a nazi. personally i would like AOC the most but even i see that we need a “non ethnic”, “non woman” for a majority.
I said like who not like what
We almost had Bernie in 2016. What would the world look like if that happened?.
Barbara Boxer giving the middle finger to Bernie supporters while exiting the rigged 2016 Nevada convention:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ob2oILFESog
The Boxer video was difficult to find, it seems to have been pretty thoroughly scrubbed from the internet.
But we remember, don’t we kids?
Lemmy would be full of comments about Bernie slow walking genocide and how he’s not left enough for them to participate.
I’m a firm believer that the person who most changed the modern world, or at least this country, completely by accident, is Elián González. Remember him? That whole thing turned off a ton of Democratic voters in Florida. Right before the 2000 election… You know, the hanging chads one that took forever to settle?
Imagine Al Gore winning in 2000. Imagine 9/11 and the aftermath (including the Iraq war) happening under his leadership… Or not. Maybe Gore would have taken action ahead of intelligence warning that planes would be used as missiles and prevented the whole thing.
It does make me wonder if that momentum would have continued into 2008 or if the pendulum would have swung to a Republican, but I would be so damn curious to see what things would have been like if his mother made it to Florida with him.
I made a similar claim recently. I guess we could go back as the beginning of time, imperialism, the framing of the constitution, manifest destiny, reconstruction, Nixon, Regan, etc. But Gore just felt so recent. So close. Like such an inflection point. Think of what the Supreme Court could look like. It really is just these small changes that turn the tides of history. I know tensions were high, but I think of Franz Ferdinand and how maybe things would’ve played out just the same if he was not assassinated, but there’s this huge unexplored possibility space where things were different. Makes me sad to think people make these decisions and will never see or understand the true consequences of them. I wonder if they saw the destruction of WW1, the holocaust, WW2, the nuclear bombs, the destruction in Gaza and war in Ukraine, if they would maybe make some different choices. I know the 2000 Supreme Court wouldn’t, but it’s nice to think maybe someone would.
I think it’s possible you might just be a Chrononaut https://store.looneylabs.com/products/gore-years
I would go out on a limb and say that due to continuity of Government, Gore’s administration would have likely been able to successfully prevent 9/11 from happening.
Though I think he would still likely end up a one-term President for whatever reason (akin to Bush Sr.) and we’d likely have gotten John McCain as president for a term before the GFC.
Al Gore DID WIN! It was proven after the fact, when the Supreme Court gave it to Bush. First time Republicans cheated and won
You can shove that CNN article up your ass. I was there after the fact. Was 20 years old first presidential election. Gore won it was proven in court. CNN are fucking nazi supporters.
You can shove that CNN article up your ass
Coming in strong there
I was there after the fact.
There as in boots on the ground on the campaign/legal team/whatever or there as in old enough to pay attention to the news?
Was 20 years old first presidential election.
Ah, I’ll assume the latter to my question above. How is that any better than someone who says they were 30 and believe the opposite? I’m just not sure why your age should matter here
Gore won it was proven in court
Which court? Was that ruling overturned on appeal?
That made a difference, but I also think It also had to do with the literal paid Brooks brothers riot organized for republicans and the Bush legal team which had 3 members who are now supreme court justices. Who cares if the people voted for gore, our supreme court says their vote is more important.
And Florida’s Secretary of State doing everything she could to stop counts and hand the election to Bush. And the Supreme Court that collaborated with her to do so.
2000 was actually, incontrovertibly stolen.
Some of the guys in the actual Brooks Brothers riot are still infecting us today.
Ronald Reagan
Andrew Johnson. The guy kneecapped Reconstruction, basically was a friend of the confederates and didn’t finish cutting out a rot that would destroy the nation a century later.
Too late
It don’t matter no more, boy.
It does matter. These are the same people keenly aware that their grandfathers instigated insurrections against their exploitation.
Learn your history, boy.
Our history is them voting one way and people like Mitch McConnell bring us right here while they reelect them.
History shows they are a bunch of mornic idiots and if they happen to do the right thing that’d be a nice surprise but history doesn’t paint them in a good light no matter what you their grandfathers did while raising father that did the opposite…
And you want to kick them when they’re finally joining your side? How fucking stupid are you?
I’ll be cantankerous… yes.
I live in a red state. My jobs are me the rare left in the entire crowd. I have to learn how to talk, chat, joke with these people. And last Trump administration I kept talking with them. Things I learned. Since I wasn’t willing to immediately extol the good of Trump, I must be against him (not even talking politics, just me keeping my mouth shut.) That they’re against many of the things on helping people.
But hell, years of working with one crew, I was getting them over, realizing that the wealthy were fucking us over, that the insurance that was fucking everyone over was why we needed better. That many of the “sullied” republicans were against it. Hell I think one thing that got them listening was they said something good about Biden, I couldn’t keep my mouth shut and made a snark about Trump and when I was told “I said something good about your guy” I outright tore into them to never say that Biden was “my guy”, I may look at lesser of evils but it wasn’t some fucking football game.
But I saw chances… I saw hope that maybe… maybe they could learn. But the second Trump started running again, it was the same parroted stuff, even from a soybean ventures guy who was watching to see if his prices would ever go back up because he was losing money on it.
So no… I don’t trust them. I think there are some who need to be out there to welcome the people when they’re willing to join sides, yes… but there also needs to be those to remind that these are not friends, and they are very likely to stab us in the back unless they actually show that they’re willing to put the work in to make change.
Who’s kicking them? It’s an internet comment stating how shitty they have been and how little trust they deserve.
Let someone else suck their dick cause they may pay Bernie lip service… vs decades of voting data and the harm their very political participation has caused? You’d have to be stupid to start fawning over them now. Let them prove it then I’ll say cool. They’ve actively proved otherwise throughout my lifetime so this article ain’t moving the needle.
I just literally told you that some of the now reddest states used to be blue and literally instigated insurrections to stick it to the man. Just treat them decently and they will abandon Trump. The fight isn’t over and the democratic party right now is changing. You don’t see it cause nobody reports about it but Bernie is literally talking with ‘the deplorables’ and winning them back on reason and sympathy. That is amazing. And MAGA has nothing to fight that but ignorance and outrage farming.
How far back are you looking? Just at Florida, which was turned red by a sea of geriatrics that doubled the state’s population over the past 30 years? Or further than that where the south was governed by Dixiecrats who just turned Republican when the Democratic party stopped being cool with Jim Crow?
I am specifically talking about the coal counties.
Just treat them decently and they will abandon Trump…
Oh yea I’m sure they will, just like after Bush crashed the economy… just like after Trump’s first term… just like when my magic fairy?
This is not about a miracle cure for their issues. This is about awareness for who understands their issues. Even the most basic coal worker understands that a politician cannot just swing a wand and fix their issues. But they also understand that not giving tax breaks to billionaires but to them would go a long way.
Where were your kin at the Battle of Blair Mountain? Why’d you let California vote for Reagan? See how unhelpful these criticisms are.
I’m not criticizing the battle of whatever I’m criticizing every vote after the fact.
Why Cali elected Reagan is nothing when you look at California SINCE THEN.
Tell me about Appalachia or Kentucky since then…
The thing with those types is that they hate black people and LGBT folk much more than they believe in anything the Bern is saying
I think the point is that voting will no longer help them.
Wrong. We are not yet at the point that democracy has failed. That is the sort of defeatism that the fascists want you to fall for so you disengage.
If you know history, then you would know we’re past the point of no return.
This is false. We are not. I see the fascists just as you do but there is so much potential for resistance precisely because of awareness. If we just give up, they win.
I concede. I agree and hope we’re right.
It isn’t important that we are right. This isn’t the world we live in anymore. What matters is the pathos of their grandfathers that reminds them that personal action matters that if TACO is not actually fixing their situation they CAN fight against the dying of the light. Fascism roles on vibes. These vibes can be turned against them as the vast majority of us americans does not have an understanding of federal policies or history. But they see their bank accounts and they see that orange Hitler does not help them.
Thebes liberated the Greek city states from their Spartan conquerers.
Thebes was in turn conquered by Phillip II of Macedonia, after he was taught by the general that led Thebes to that victory.
Thebes was destroyed by Alexander, Phillip’s son, after they rebelled against his rule.
When offered the choice to surrender and spare their city, they refused and fought to the death for their liberty.
Does the empire of Alexander still stand? Did democracy die forever with Phillip’s conquests?
Nothing lasts forever. And fascism has rarely lasted long historically.
Unfortunately, while voting is bloodless, ousting fascism, after idiots vote it in, takes many lives.
We’ll see. It’s been ousted bloodlessly before but it’s not easy.
I would love to read about any examples you provide!
I’m not an expert but one example is the downfall of Pinochet. I’m sure there are others too.
At least Hitler was smart. Trump is a bumbling idiot.
Hitler was also a bumbling idiot. He just had stimulants
The more people turn away from trump the more effective resistance becomes. We should be encouraging this. Better late than never.
Are there no young people in the US? Must we keep chasing after geriatric old men?
They are on their phones, getting likes for their selfies.
All the people downvoting you better be showing up to protests. As far as I can see, nobody under 60 cares about the collapse of democracy enough to actually get off their phones and do something in the real world.
As they should have been, all along.
Doesn’t matter. There’s 1 Bernie and he’s 84.
No one else like him exists in American politics.
Way to tell the class you’ve never listened to him speak…
You thinking of some obscure politician with no media flow out there just like him? Whoever you’re thinking of would need to get more than .5% of a vote.
Dude, he’s filling stadiums with his anti-oligarchy tour. What rock have you been living under?
You misread me. Bernie is cool. But there is no one else. Once he’s gone, that’s it. There’s no group, he’s one man.
That’s absolutely not true, Graham Platner is running to unseat Susan Collins in Maine with a very “no war but a class war” mentality, and it’s really working to bring people back into the light of reality. It’s a tactic that works, drop the identity politics, focus on the blatant unfairness of our current model of capitalism and try to make working class people’s life better instead of demonizing them for having been taken by propaganda and fear.
I think the point he’s trying to make is that there’s a certain combination of beliefs and personality that make Bernie so enticing to people, and his “successor” isn’t clear. Which… I half-agree with. AOC is a great contender for filling his shoes, if those coal country people aren’t too racist/sexist.
Trump is similar on the other side. Decades of name recognition. He has a charisma that attracts people who could fall for a cult. His nonsense way of speaking lets people fill in the blanks in a way that want to see. When he goes, who do you see as being the face of MAGA? Vance has the personality of a raw potato. Desantis has views virtually identical to Trump, but nobody really likes him.
Yeah, I’ve seen wet blankets with more charisma than those last two. “JD” “Vance” definitely gives off a lot of failson vibes - weirdly, he seems a lot like Uday and Qusay Trump.
And then DeSantis seems he’s always trying to be this fake alpha dickbag with that “take that mask off” stuff being growled at a goddamned KID and stomping around in those high heels of his, LOL.
At least with Taco, many dipshits seem to think this fancy-pants Manhattanite that never worked a day in his life and skipped out on service due to “bone spurs” is not in fact a gigantic pussy, but a real Man’s Man. I just don’t see the slack-jawed yokels going for couch fucker in mascara or the height-challenged guy prancing around in high heels.
But then again, I’ve been wrong before. I thought they’d see right through the guy with a 2 hour hair and makeup routine who was known for decades as a bullshit loud-mouthed con artist…
