The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, though. The kid was born in crackerstan. Non-Republican’s there are about as common as non-whites. He’s the result of a long-term breeding experiment that investigates what would happen if you concentrated all the most gullible/ignorant people into a single space. Their Republican governor literally prayed to their god, that the person guilty of the crime was an outsider/other that they could all openly admonish and attack. acknowledging in a Freudian manner, just how bad and demented people in the area are because of the cult. His whole family are sympathizers for the fascists.And much like Mormonism is the dumbest of an already dumb religion. He somehow found a dumber sect than the dumbest sect of politics his family was already in.
About all the kid was confused and conflicted. Generally very conservative and Republican by any measure.
The kid was born in crackerstan. Non-Republican’s there are about as common as non-whites.
this is demographics, not evidence.
He’s the result of a long-term breeding experiment that investigates what would happen if you concentrated all the most gullible/ignorant people into a single space.
???
Rest of post is a screed about how you don’t like Utah. Not evidence.
I have seen no evidence either way this guy was a leftist, or a groyper, or anything. People out there WISH he was something so they can wrap this whole thing up and explain it away, without acknowledging that people with fulfilling lives and hopeful futures don’t do things like this.
His whole family are sympathizers for the fascists
I never said it was evidence. You simply took the least relevant portion of a full statement to misrepresent it. The full statement was that their political diversity wasn’t any better than their ethnic diversity, which you have agreed is factual demographics.
Of all the stupid things Missourians have done, us running the Mormons out of the state wasn’t one of them.Utah is run by a conglomeration of multiple cults, including the Mormons and Republicans. The Mormons explicitly disassociating and ostracizing anyone who dares question them from their families and friends. Was my phrasing sensationalist and incendiary? Yes. Is anything I just said wrong? No. They actively ostracize anyone intelligent enough to show a critical thing.
Above all I think the kid is confused, conflicted, and mentally unwell. Which in our current environment is no condemnation of him. I think we all struggle with it. Now, its also quite clear he comes from a heavily right winged background, which I think even you cannot deny.
Hell, I would say that you personally empathize with the kid mistakenly or not. And only any monster like Kirk would ridicule empathy. That said, you should probably also know better than anyone that it’s almost impossible to escape cults. There’s been no evidence that this is the case with him.
Though I’m not sure how posting from Lemme. ML is a good thing though? The greater fediverse, sure. As a rule, I tend not to attack people I see posting from there. Since at one point it was the only game in town, and there are people who still use it. Who don’t align with the political suppression and censorship there. But for those that do, Marxist Leninism is an ideology, so destructive and toxic. It only comes in second to fascism here in the United States because of its larger-scale irrelevance.
As a leftist with almost all family being conservative: I wouldn’t be writing 4chan memes on bullets, if it was politically motivated it would be clear cut. Trans rights are human rights. Free Palestine. Seize the means of production. Not telling them they’re gay if they read something like it’s 2006.
It’s called motivated reasoning. If you asked them outside of this context you would get the correct and obvious answer but now that their pet theory depends on it they will pretend there is no such thing.
Where’s the evidence he was? You’re talking about his family but I want evidence he is maga before I can relax. He was registered to vote but not as a Republican and there’s stories going around that he’s in a relationship with a trans woman? That doesn’t sound maga. But then again they’re not really an internally consistent group and it wouldn’t be the first time news outlets ran with fake trans stories so nothing I’ve heard is conclusive.
Yeah I’m leaning hoax as well but that’s kinda the point of the conversation right? Don’t jump to conclusions this early on, there’s not a lot of evidence yet and it’s very far from reliable
Don’t disregard all evidence just because one side is actively trying to deflect blame. That’s what they want you to do. Yes you should always be critical and double check sources, but they’re purposefully trying to muddle the waters and cast a shadow of a doubt for cover
That’s how fascism thrives. MLK warned about complacency
I’m sure it happens but given the anti trans rhetoric of the right it is more uncommon. Agreed though we just don’t know anything reliable yet. I think speculating is fine too as long as it’s not framed as anything but speculating
Well, I don’t have direct experience but I’ve heard from some trans women that some conservative men have an obsession with them exactly because it is transgressive. So I’m not sure if it is more or less uncommon.
You should know that Lemmy is generally a misinformation factory, there’s real people interacting all over the place but there are so so so many bad faith actors here that you should basically take anything said here as a biased statement.
We don’t know all the facts. He could just as easily be a leftist. I hate that it matters so much because either way, he had some demons to be able to do that. I see people on the right just as sure he’s a leftist and I despise the idea that people would rather push a narrative than know the truth. Sadly, people on the right will always blame a leftist no matter what now and vice versa. I would prefer to know the truth whatever it is. And yes I know that historically what the odds are here. Truth matters though. Let’s not stoop to immediately making a decision and ignoring facts that come out later.
No one here said a leftist couldn’t have done this. What people are saying is that due to clear circumstantial evidence, there’s very little chance he is a leftist. Many of these pieces I just recited to you. But if you truly think it is just as likely that he is a leftist, why don’t you read off five or six circumstantial markers that you think indicate this?
What Internet people don’t understand is that it’s possible to not jump to a conclusion. It’s easy in fact. Which is why I’m trying not to and asking for others to as well. You’re asking me to argue for something I don’t believe. I’m waiting for actual evidence. Not some vague shit or lies from Cox
I’m really sorry you feel threatened by the idea of skepticism and need to lash out at strangers, accusing them of harboring secret and evil motivations.
Totally agree. It’s bizarre to see you get downvoted for not wanting to jump to conclusions. Do people here think we’ll all suddenly turn maga if he is a leftist or that it serves us at all to be wrong about him? If anything I’m pushed away from this community seeing shit like this
Yeah, social media is the worst invention of all time. Even when talking with people you agree with 90%+, they can’t wait to jump on you and prove you’re a secretly impure or destructive force to the things you claim to agree with. It’s fucking bizarre but it’s consistent.
Browsing r/conservative, it’s way worse for sure on this conclusion-jumping issue, but I am saddened to be on this platform right now where you cannot even suggest waiting for evidence without people getting mad at you.
So what you’re saying is that you have nothing? Not a single solitary fact, that you can point to that might indicate his possible left-leaning stance. Just on the face of it, over 70% of political violence in the United States comes from right-wing sources, less than 10% from left. By those numbers alone, it’s a fairly safe assumption he probably wasn’t at leftist.
Those currently in power are actively trying to frame it as a leftist to justify current and future abuses of innocent people.There’s nothing wrong with pushing such a well-founded assumption as the likely truth. in the face of their propaganda. But refusing to push back against unfounded accusations against those who would be our allies. Shows that you are not likely their ally.
But, you know what? I take it all back. Your complete and utter lack of anything at all to point to has convinced me.
LOL, I’m not mad. Gauging from your frustrated response, I’d say you’re projecting a little. I’m simply pointing out that skepticism for skepticism’s sake is no boon. The first couple of days, it was absolutely the call. But the longer this has gone on, the more that has come out. The more transparent, the more desperate the actions of the fascists in power to try to paint this on leftists has become. They can’t point to any leftist literature that he had.They can’t point to any of his actions, or behaviour to show it either.
First, it was just that he himself was trans. When that narrative blew up in their face, then it became about this trans roommate. That everyone knows exists, but no one can find or get even an anonymous quote from. Not that a trans person “existing“ would radicalize someone.
While we hem and haw debating the accuracy of the things they throw out in bad faith. They have and will trample/slaughter the truth regardless. Considering the agenda and incompetence of those running the show. We should spend more energy being sceptical of anything they put out. It will be framed and misrepresented to suit them at best. At best.
You’re still not getting it. Saying “I don’t know” is always an option. Just because the right is shitty enough to never do that doesn’t mean we need to even debate about this. We likely will never know why this happened, and claiming we do seems valueless to me. It changes nothing about the right being Nazis. It does nothing to help advance progressive causes. It just leads to pointless wastes of energy. It’s not like if we scream loudly enough that Robinson is a right winger then suddenly anyone changes their mind about anything at all
No one said it wasn’t an option. Nor was anyone criticizing you for having that opinion. I believe you don’t know. The pushback you’re receiving is that you are asserting what people who aren’t you, cannot know in your opinion. You don’t know that. And for how much you dislike my argument. You cannot rebut it because you have even less evidence of your position. Dispute ours only being based around the Fuentes cult engraved memes on the casings and the overwhelming preponderance of circumstantial evidence.
The hilarious irony is that whether the kid is left or right, it’s irrelevant. It has and will be pinned on the left regardless of evidence. Because the fascists need it to be. And we bumble among ourselves arguing pointless minutiae as fascists achieve their goals.
In the end realistically more than anything the kid was conflicted, manipulated, confused, and mentally unwell. Regardless of political leanings. And our society and dominant politics are the ones to blame. Not the nebulous “the left” bogeyman.
The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, though. The kid was born in crackerstan. Non-Republican’s there are about as common as non-whites. He’s the result of a long-term breeding experiment that investigates what would happen if you concentrated all the most gullible/ignorant people into a single space. Their Republican governor literally prayed to their god, that the person guilty of the crime was an outsider/other that they could all openly admonish and attack. acknowledging in a Freudian manner, just how bad and demented people in the area are because of the cult. His whole family are sympathizers for the fascists.And much like Mormonism is the dumbest of an already dumb religion. He somehow found a dumber sect than the dumbest sect of politics his family was already in.
About all the kid was confused and conflicted. Generally very conservative and Republican by any measure.
this is demographics, not evidence.
???
Rest of post is a screed about how you don’t like Utah. Not evidence.
I have seen no evidence either way this guy was a leftist, or a groyper, or anything. People out there WISH he was something so they can wrap this whole thing up and explain it away, without acknowledging that people with fulfilling lives and hopeful futures don’t do things like this.
So are mine, and here I am, posting on lemmy.ml
Slow your roll. Post evidence or stop muddying the waters.
You posting on lemmy.ml doesn’t say to other people about your relationship to fascism what it says to you.
I never said it was evidence. You simply took the least relevant portion of a full statement to misrepresent it. The full statement was that their political diversity wasn’t any better than their ethnic diversity, which you have agreed is factual demographics.
Of all the stupid things Missourians have done, us running the Mormons out of the state wasn’t one of them.Utah is run by a conglomeration of multiple cults, including the Mormons and Republicans. The Mormons explicitly disassociating and ostracizing anyone who dares question them from their families and friends. Was my phrasing sensationalist and incendiary? Yes. Is anything I just said wrong? No. They actively ostracize anyone intelligent enough to show a critical thing.
Above all I think the kid is confused, conflicted, and mentally unwell. Which in our current environment is no condemnation of him. I think we all struggle with it. Now, its also quite clear he comes from a heavily right winged background, which I think even you cannot deny.
Hell, I would say that you personally empathize with the kid mistakenly or not. And only any monster like Kirk would ridicule empathy. That said, you should probably also know better than anyone that it’s almost impossible to escape cults. There’s been no evidence that this is the case with him.
Though I’m not sure how posting from Lemme. ML is a good thing though? The greater fediverse, sure. As a rule, I tend not to attack people I see posting from there. Since at one point it was the only game in town, and there are people who still use it. Who don’t align with the political suppression and censorship there. But for those that do, Marxist Leninism is an ideology, so destructive and toxic. It only comes in second to fascism here in the United States because of its larger-scale irrelevance.
I’m amazed at all the people on this website convinced that there’s no such thing as leftists with conservative families.
As a leftist with almost all family being conservative: I wouldn’t be writing 4chan memes on bullets, if it was politically motivated it would be clear cut. Trans rights are human rights. Free Palestine. Seize the means of production. Not telling them they’re gay if they read something like it’s 2006.
That’s interesting speculation. But literally before you posted https://kbin.earth/m/[email protected]/t/1890755/-/comment/8863845
It’s called motivated reasoning. If you asked them outside of this context you would get the correct and obvious answer but now that their pet theory depends on it they will pretend there is no such thing.
Where’s the evidence he was? You’re talking about his family but I want evidence he is maga before I can relax. He was registered to vote but not as a Republican and there’s stories going around that he’s in a relationship with a trans woman? That doesn’t sound maga. But then again they’re not really an internally consistent group and it wouldn’t be the first time news outlets ran with fake trans stories so nothing I’ve heard is conclusive.
Do you actually have any evidence?
The trans roommate thing is a hoax. The right is just desperate to pin this on trans people so they can further their genocide
Yeah I’m leaning hoax as well but that’s kinda the point of the conversation right? Don’t jump to conclusions this early on, there’s not a lot of evidence yet and it’s very far from reliable
Don’t disregard all evidence just because one side is actively trying to deflect blame. That’s what they want you to do. Yes you should always be critical and double check sources, but they’re purposefully trying to muddle the waters and cast a shadow of a doubt for cover
That’s how fascism thrives. MLK warned about complacency
E: typo
What? You’re saying don’t disregard it and disregard it at the same time lol. I would hope it’s obvious you should skeptically consider all evidence
Lots of MAGA people date trans actually. We really don’t know anything concrete about his views or why he did this and people need to accept that.
They were just roommates though.
Most outlets seem to be reporting it’s a romantic relationship but I’m not sure what evidence there is for this, if any.
I’m sure it happens but given the anti trans rhetoric of the right it is more uncommon. Agreed though we just don’t know anything reliable yet. I think speculating is fine too as long as it’s not framed as anything but speculating
Well, I don’t have direct experience but I’ve heard from some trans women that some conservative men have an obsession with them exactly because it is transgressive. So I’m not sure if it is more or less uncommon.
You ignoring the evidence put forward doesn’t make it not exist. Do better.
I’m asking you for the evidence. Did I overlook something?
You should know that Lemmy is generally a misinformation factory, there’s real people interacting all over the place but there are so so so many bad faith actors here that you should basically take anything said here as a biased statement.
Trust yourself and seek reputable sources
Reputable sources are harder and harder to come by these days. Like terrifyingly so
And ought to be considered not present here in the comment section
We don’t know all the facts. He could just as easily be a leftist. I hate that it matters so much because either way, he had some demons to be able to do that. I see people on the right just as sure he’s a leftist and I despise the idea that people would rather push a narrative than know the truth. Sadly, people on the right will always blame a leftist no matter what now and vice versa. I would prefer to know the truth whatever it is. And yes I know that historically what the odds are here. Truth matters though. Let’s not stoop to immediately making a decision and ignoring facts that come out later.
No one here said a leftist couldn’t have done this. What people are saying is that due to clear circumstantial evidence, there’s very little chance he is a leftist. Many of these pieces I just recited to you. But if you truly think it is just as likely that he is a leftist, why don’t you read off five or six circumstantial markers that you think indicate this?
What Internet people don’t understand is that it’s possible to not jump to a conclusion. It’s easy in fact. Which is why I’m trying not to and asking for others to as well. You’re asking me to argue for something I don’t believe. I’m waiting for actual evidence. Not some vague shit or lies from Cox
that’s the thing: circumstantial evidence is evidence, it’s just evidence you don’t like apparently
I’m really sorry you feel threatened by the idea of skepticism and need to lash out at strangers, accusing them of harboring secret and evil motivations.
okay time for you to take a break from the internet
Despite me never saying that and only saying I am waiting for an actually conclusive piece of evidence.
here you go. time to learn
Totally agree. It’s bizarre to see you get downvoted for not wanting to jump to conclusions. Do people here think we’ll all suddenly turn maga if he is a leftist or that it serves us at all to be wrong about him? If anything I’m pushed away from this community seeing shit like this
Yeah, social media is the worst invention of all time. Even when talking with people you agree with 90%+, they can’t wait to jump on you and prove you’re a secretly impure or destructive force to the things you claim to agree with. It’s fucking bizarre but it’s consistent.
Browsing r/conservative, it’s way worse for sure on this conclusion-jumping issue, but I am saddened to be on this platform right now where you cannot even suggest waiting for evidence without people getting mad at you.
So what you’re saying is that you have nothing? Not a single solitary fact, that you can point to that might indicate his possible left-leaning stance. Just on the face of it, over 70% of political violence in the United States comes from right-wing sources, less than 10% from left. By those numbers alone, it’s a fairly safe assumption he probably wasn’t at leftist.
Those currently in power are actively trying to frame it as a leftist to justify current and future abuses of innocent people.There’s nothing wrong with pushing such a well-founded assumption as the likely truth. in the face of their propaganda. But refusing to push back against unfounded accusations against those who would be our allies. Shows that you are not likely their ally.
But, you know what? I take it all back. Your complete and utter lack of anything at all to point to has convinced me.
I’m done here. I’m encouraging skepticism, you’re mad about it. Deal.
LOL, I’m not mad. Gauging from your frustrated response, I’d say you’re projecting a little. I’m simply pointing out that skepticism for skepticism’s sake is no boon. The first couple of days, it was absolutely the call. But the longer this has gone on, the more that has come out. The more transparent, the more desperate the actions of the fascists in power to try to paint this on leftists has become. They can’t point to any leftist literature that he had.They can’t point to any of his actions, or behaviour to show it either.
First, it was just that he himself was trans. When that narrative blew up in their face, then it became about this trans roommate. That everyone knows exists, but no one can find or get even an anonymous quote from. Not that a trans person “existing“ would radicalize someone.
While we hem and haw debating the accuracy of the things they throw out in bad faith. They have and will trample/slaughter the truth regardless. Considering the agenda and incompetence of those running the show. We should spend more energy being sceptical of anything they put out. It will be framed and misrepresented to suit them at best. At best.
You’re still not getting it. Saying “I don’t know” is always an option. Just because the right is shitty enough to never do that doesn’t mean we need to even debate about this. We likely will never know why this happened, and claiming we do seems valueless to me. It changes nothing about the right being Nazis. It does nothing to help advance progressive causes. It just leads to pointless wastes of energy. It’s not like if we scream loudly enough that Robinson is a right winger then suddenly anyone changes their mind about anything at all
No one said it wasn’t an option. Nor was anyone criticizing you for having that opinion. I believe you don’t know. The pushback you’re receiving is that you are asserting what people who aren’t you, cannot know in your opinion. You don’t know that. And for how much you dislike my argument. You cannot rebut it because you have even less evidence of your position. Dispute ours only being based around the Fuentes cult engraved memes on the casings and the overwhelming preponderance of circumstantial evidence.
The hilarious irony is that whether the kid is left or right, it’s irrelevant. It has and will be pinned on the left regardless of evidence. Because the fascists need it to be. And we bumble among ourselves arguing pointless minutiae as fascists achieve their goals.
In the end realistically more than anything the kid was conflicted, manipulated, confused, and mentally unwell. Regardless of political leanings. And our society and dominant politics are the ones to blame. Not the nebulous “the left” bogeyman.