• Jax@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    13
    ·
    1 day ago

    I disagree with it as well but man is it hard not being mean to these kinds of people. Like, they literally deserve it.

    • pebbles@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      I’m not sure we can understand the information environment folks are livin in enough to be confident making fun of how they see things.

      It’d be like going to North Korea and making fun of locals for being pro Kim Jong Un. It’s just a bit in poor taste.

      Edit: grammar

      • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 day ago

        I think the grace you are extending is admirable. That said, I personally know people who I’ve been explaining this to and have sent articles to. If you go back far enough in my comment history I commented on a post about a person who teaches about fascism at a prestigious university leaving the US due to fascism. I mentioned sending that article to people who were still doubting. The fact of the matter is that people will only see what they want to see. Every day I tell myself I’m chipping away at the blindness, but I don’t have any evidence to support that. It’s been months, if not years counting from the start of his first run. Whatever does the trick is great, but some people’s brains are just not willing to see it. They’ll admit he’s bad and they would never vote for him, but a fascist? Cue hemming and hawing. It’s like that meme from Westworld. I really do try to extend grace because the “it couldn’t happen here”, or American exceptionalism, or whatever else obviously runs deep, but I can say from personal experience it’s not always the lack of information. Some people really just don’t want to see what’s right in front of them. It’s unfortunately a very well documented part of the human experience.

          • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 hours ago

            Yea, that’s basically my whole point. People are so used to thinking that, they’re unwilling to see what’s happening around them for what it is. I don’t think it makes them bad people, though obviously it can lead to bad outcomes, they’re just struggling with things we all struggle with. But when I struggle with my own ignorance, or incuriosity, or cognitive dissonance it generally does not lead to enabling fascism, so I like to think. I hope that if it did people would not give up on attempting to educate and help me. People are flawed creatures and unfortunately our society and technology have far outpaced what we can be reasonably capable of understanding or reasoning through instinctively. I hope things get better, but I don’t see that happening without people really taking the time to educate others and meet them where they’re at.

        • pebbles@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          23 hours ago

          Yeah that’s frustrating. I think some world views are just too ingrained. Like some phrase or idea is just so true that it’s considered an axiom rather than a conclusion.

          I’ve learned I’m in quite the minority believing that folks don’t have as much control over their beliefs as we think they do. Or especially the application of that idea. I don’t think it is someone’s fault that they are racist. And I don’t think they need to have magically realized how important it is to try and be informed. Who (that they’d listen to) is going to tell them to do that? Their conservative parent’s? Their conservative friends? The conservatives they listen to online?

          It’s a tough nut to crack. I think folks get frustrated with it and want to blame someone for things not working.

          I do want to say that I see all that frustration and anger is very very very valid. People are getting harmed by these beliefs. I’m also sorry that trying to educate folks has been so tough in your case.

          I think part of the frustration is that we’ve convinced ourselves that humans run on logic. I blame the Romans. I’m probably wrong on placing that blame.

          • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            9 hours ago

            May we all find the empathy you’re extending. It’s truly a daily struggle. Regardless, blaming the Romans is always a good move, so I’m on board there. Down with the Romans!

            Best of luck with it all. Keep fighting the good fight.

            • pebbles@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              8 hours ago

              Thanks for the encouragement. I usually get push back on these ideas, so it really gives me motivation hearing you say all that.

      • ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        I don’t think I can agree with that logic when literally one Internet search could course correct these people on most of the issues they are choosing to be on the wrong side of. They don’t want to know what the truth is because it doesn’t fit their emotional narrative.

      • Jax@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        I find that to be a very weak argument.

        Say I make fun of a racist. If they’re just a poor propagandized individual who finally realizes their act, should I not shame them? Should I not ensure that they realize the depth of their behavior, the depth of their shame?

        Shrugs I like to keep records. I don’t like letting people off the hook after they shit the bed and force everyone else to clean it up while they figure out they don’t like how it smells. I think that’s weak behavior and a big part of the reason we’re here today.

        Edit: I’m ok with letting children off the hook. Kids are fucking dumb.