Ofcom — driven by the letter of British law that they are bound to follow, but still Ofcom — are quietly making Britain look (a) very silly and (b) as if we haven’t yet shucked-off the Americ…
It is quite simple really - 4chan will either pay and comply or be blocked in the UK, lose all the revenue from UK traffic and be constantly on guard where their financial assets are as these will be seized if handled by UK bank.
Im going to take a charitable read on this and just assume that you’re misunderstanding or uninformed of the context at the core of this, because nothing of what you said is really applicable.
The part where they have any infrastructure, operations, revenue, or presence at all in the UK. They don’t, so the UK doesn’t have jurisdiction. This isn’t like the Apple stuff, where physical Apple products are being sold at retail in the EU/UK. UK residents are intentionally navigating to a website outside UK jurisdiction. If a UK resident goes to Mallorca on holiday, Spanish laws, not UK laws, apply because they’re in fucking Spain.
Also you should probably click that About page on the linked blog dude. Unless some American just randomly wound up at UCL in 1988 then graduated, stayed in the UK, and got a job at UCW Aberystwyth, you might want to rethink the random bullshit you’re spouting off as fact lol. By all means keep going off about how British ppl are “USians” and “US idiots” though.
I feel like I am missing something reading your comments, but it seems pretty clear to me that they do do business in the UK. They have users in the UK, to which they are providing a service (the 4chan message boards) in exchange for eyes on adverts placed on the page (from which 4chan makes money).
Just because this law is really stupid, and that 4chan does not have servers in the UK doesn’t really matter. UK laws can still be enforced for individuals in the UK (which is expressly what is stated in the message from ofcom). Ofcom is not demanding that age verification is implemented for all users world wide, but for UK users. 4Chan can decide to not comply (which I think is good), but then it is not surprising that if you keep doing business in the UK (not blocking UK users/IPs) that fines (which 4chan will just ignore as they are not UK based) and possible bans on your service in the UK follow.
So as I understand it from conversations surrounding the USB-C stuff and other things the EU was trying to enforce on US headquartered companies, “doing business in” means the company has a registered subsidiary in that region, they have local payment processors, etc. So Meta does business in the EU or UK because they sell advertising space to businesses in those regions that target users in those regions, and the ad fees are paid to that local subsidiary through local payment processors.
Ofcom is not demanding that age verification is implemented for all users world wide, but for UK users. 4Chan can decide to not comply (which I think is good), but then it is not surprising that if you keep doing business in the UK (not blocking UK users/IPs) that fines (which 4chan will just ignore as they are not UK based) and possible bans on your service in the UK follow.
I think we’re on the same page. Ofcom can’t force 4chan to do anything, because they don’t have jurisdiction over 4chan. They can’t force 4chan to implement age verification, or to implement geoblocks. They can issue fines if they feel like it, but they’re uncollectible.
So ultimately that’s what’s so ridiculous and goofy and annoying about all this shit. Ofcom is acting like foreign companies with no business operations in the UK are subject to its decisions. They are not. Ofcom should have never tried regulating entities it has no authority over, it just makes them look silly and naive.
The UK has every right to restrict their own residents access to things that are illegal internally. Just like how they have customs controls at their physical borders to prevent illegal physical items from being imported, they should have just blocked 4chan off the rip instead of trying to fine them.
They can’t force 4chan to implement age verification, or to implement geoblocks. They can issue fines if they feel like it, but they’re uncollectible.
The UK has every right to restrict their own residents access to things that are illegal internally. Just like how they have customs controls at their physical borders to prevent illegal physical items from being imported, they should have just blocked 4chan off the rip instead of trying to fine them.
Yeah, reading this I think we are indeed on the same page.
Are you seriously trying to say that if you have a website, no matter where it’s hosted and what you are hosting, you are subject to the laws of EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY that has internet access?
Here’s a text picture of Muhammad lying down: O<–<
Are the admins of lemmy.world now subject to being put to death in Somalia? Under Somali law, that is blasphemy and punishable by death.
If you have users and derive income from a country, you are operating in this country. This is not a difficult concept as tech giants found out after EU fined multiple of them.
Yeah, I don’t think you really understand how the internet works. Their presence is in the country where their servers are. People from the UK essentially go to another country to visit 4chan. If the UK doesn’t like that the onus should be on them to block that access, but that is also a stupid idea thanks to VPNs.
Their income is derived from the UK users. They can either block the UK traffic (which they don’t want as it would mean less money) or engage with the regulator regarding risk of illegal content they have been fined for:
The controversial online forum 4chan risks being blocked in the UK after refusing to pay a fine from Ofcom for breaking [rules set by the Online Safety Act]).
The website, which hosts adult content, was handed a £20,000 for failing to share information about the risk of illegal content on its platform.
Media watchdog Ofcom said action would be taken against companies that “flagrantly fails to engage with Ofcom and their duties under the Online Safety Act”.
Does the UK think they have jurisdiction over my server just because some twat from the UK visits my site? If so, there’s a reason why we fought a war nearly 250 years ago that said that a stupid fucking idea. Colonialism is a dead ideology
Does the UK think they have jurisdiction over my server just because some twat from the UK visits my site?
Yes. You are providing services to the UK users and deriving income from these services.
If so, there’s a reason why we fought a war nearly 250 years ago
Get used to it. Apple get fined by the EU multiple times, Microsoft and Google also, from memory, lost some cases in the EU despite lack of physical presence.
USians are surprised that they must follow the foreign law if they do business (generate income) outside of the USA.
And the guy writing this blog is a fucking utter idiot.
Found a USian.
You are extremely wrong and will inevitably have your face rubbed in that fact when the UK fails to do anything to/about 4chan
It is quite simple really - 4chan will either pay and comply or be blocked in the UK, lose all the revenue from UK traffic and be constantly on guard where their financial assets are as these will be seized if handled by UK bank.
4chan will pay nothing, the UK has no power to seize any assets 4chan has, any revenue they lose will be negligible and temporary
So are you saying the UK government doesn’t have the power to block 4chan in the UK?
Interesting.
You USians are funny, you really believe you are exceptional and your shitty companies are above the law.
EU and EU countries proved you wrong multiple times when they fined your big tech. This time it will be no different.
Lol @ “you think you’re exceptional” from a country literally in the middle of trying to enforce their laws on others, delusional
No, sweetie. USians are shocked to find out laws apply to them. Difficult concept, I know.
It’s an extremely shitty and bad faith law, sorry for being the devil’s advocate.
It is not a great piece of legislation but the statements from 4chan are hysterical 😂
Im going to take a charitable read on this and just assume that you’re misunderstanding or uninformed of the context at the core of this, because nothing of what you said is really applicable.
Read again than.
The fucking US idiot writing this blog is surprised that 4chan must follow UK law while having customers/users in the UK.
Which part is not applicable?
The part where they have any infrastructure, operations, revenue, or presence at all in the UK. They don’t, so the UK doesn’t have jurisdiction. This isn’t like the Apple stuff, where physical Apple products are being sold at retail in the EU/UK. UK residents are intentionally navigating to a website outside UK jurisdiction. If a UK resident goes to Mallorca on holiday, Spanish laws, not UK laws, apply because they’re in fucking Spain.
Also you should probably click that About page on the linked blog dude. Unless some American just randomly wound up at UCL in 1988 then graduated, stayed in the UK, and got a job at UCW Aberystwyth, you might want to rethink the random bullshit you’re spouting off as fact lol. By all means keep going off about how British ppl are “USians” and “US idiots” though.
I feel like I am missing something reading your comments, but it seems pretty clear to me that they do do business in the UK. They have users in the UK, to which they are providing a service (the 4chan message boards) in exchange for eyes on adverts placed on the page (from which 4chan makes money).
Just because this law is really stupid, and that 4chan does not have servers in the UK doesn’t really matter. UK laws can still be enforced for individuals in the UK (which is expressly what is stated in the message from ofcom). Ofcom is not demanding that age verification is implemented for all users world wide, but for UK users. 4Chan can decide to not comply (which I think is good), but then it is not surprising that if you keep doing business in the UK (not blocking UK users/IPs) that fines (which 4chan will just ignore as they are not UK based) and possible bans on your service in the UK follow.
So as I understand it from conversations surrounding the USB-C stuff and other things the EU was trying to enforce on US headquartered companies, “doing business in” means the company has a registered subsidiary in that region, they have local payment processors, etc. So Meta does business in the EU or UK because they sell advertising space to businesses in those regions that target users in those regions, and the ad fees are paid to that local subsidiary through local payment processors.
I think we’re on the same page. Ofcom can’t force 4chan to do anything, because they don’t have jurisdiction over 4chan. They can’t force 4chan to implement age verification, or to implement geoblocks. They can issue fines if they feel like it, but they’re uncollectible.
So ultimately that’s what’s so ridiculous and goofy and annoying about all this shit. Ofcom is acting like foreign companies with no business operations in the UK are subject to its decisions. They are not. Ofcom should have never tried regulating entities it has no authority over, it just makes them look silly and naive.
The UK has every right to restrict their own residents access to things that are illegal internally. Just like how they have customs controls at their physical borders to prevent illegal physical items from being imported, they should have just blocked 4chan off the rip instead of trying to fine them.
Yeah, reading this I think we are indeed on the same page.
Do you understand how the Internet works? You don’t have to have an infrastructure in a country to be present there.
USians need to get used to following the law. Shocking, I know.
Are you seriously trying to say that if you have a website, no matter where it’s hosted and what you are hosting, you are subject to the laws of EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY that has internet access?
Here’s a text picture of Muhammad lying down: O<–<
Are the admins of lemmy.world now subject to being put to death in Somalia? Under Somali law, that is blasphemy and punishable by death.
If you have users and derive income from a country, you are operating in this country. This is not a difficult concept as tech giants found out after EU fined multiple of them.
Admittedly you’re halfway decent as a troll. Got a few people.
Yeah, I don’t think you really understand how the internet works. Their presence is in the country where their servers are. People from the UK essentially go to another country to visit 4chan. If the UK doesn’t like that the onus should be on them to block that access, but that is also a stupid idea thanks to VPNs.
Their income is derived from the UK users. They can either block the UK traffic (which they don’t want as it would mean less money) or engage with the regulator regarding risk of illegal content they have been fined for:
Does the UK think they have jurisdiction over my server just because some twat from the UK visits my site? If so, there’s a reason why we fought a war nearly 250 years ago that said that a stupid fucking idea. Colonialism is a dead ideology
Yes. You are providing services to the UK users and deriving income from these services.
Get used to it. Apple get fined by the EU multiple times, Microsoft and Google also, from memory, lost some cases in the EU despite lack of physical presence.