A simple Microsoft 365 Roadmap update will now generate a raft of unhappy headlines. The idea is simple. “When users connect to their organization’s Wi-Fi, Teams will automatically set their work location to reflect the building they are working in.”
Forget the locational anonymity of a Teams virtual background. Teams will update your location when connected to your company’s WiFi. On video, you may have your usual background complete with company logo. But your boss will know you’re not in work.
I am glad I work where nobody monitors teams because that would be stupid.
But exactly how will this work for the people who are actually using modern computing? So I am on Azure Virtual Desktop for one instance of teams, and another that I use for calls on a personal laptop, maybe on their wifi but always with a VPN because we habitually run vpns.
So where am I?
Hold on. Let me say this.
If your boss cares more about where you are doing your work, than if your work is getting completed, you need a new boss.
I work in IT support and I’ll say that this isn’t really anything that couldn’t be done before, is just more visible. Office 365 logs what device and app you’re using to connect, the IP address of the requester, what you were requesting from which service… The list is long. It’s a massive amount of data that largely, nobody cares about.
The only time I even look at that information is when some security software flags some action as suspicious, then, and only then, do I even bother.
If you go on vacation and suddenly connect from Florida when you are normally connecting from the UK, I get a notification. If you suddenly start using a well known VPN, I get a notification. The logic is for security. If you suddenly log in from a new place, then it’s more likely that the login in question wasn’t you, and you’ve been hijacked. That’s literally my only interest in your location. Most bosses don’t give a shit either.
I think the takeaway from this article, and I may be wrong, is that Teams uses location to report where you’re logging in from. This is something most corporate networks report anyway for safety.
This isn’t a big deal for the vast majority of Work From Home employees. Most have home offices, and most will make their team or managers aware if they’re logging in from a new location, or everyone is using a robust VPN to connect anyway so it hardly matters.
This is going to fuck over people who are exploiting WFH to say, work two jobs (Yes, it is more common than you think) or people who went on vacation with their family and didn’t want to take PTO so they are trying to log in to join team meetings from the hotel lobby or something.
If your company is so draconian about your login location and you’re hiding where you’re working from, maybe consider changing habits or changing employer.
This is going to fuck over people who are exploiting WFH to say, work two jobs
can you explain how this would catch people working two jobs esp if they are both WFH jobs?
It gets strange when you are using their cloud services though. You don’t really need a VPN to use teams web interface, it should be secure by default. Will Linux leak my location when using teams? I don’t know.
Or if I am using virtual desktops in azure, often with a secondary hop to a remote desktop somewhere that is running teams. At this point what are we logging and what location am I really at?
As a side note: all of this effort by microsoft is annoying. Bring your own device is so freeing and cost saving, but it makes the situation I described above.
I work on windows all day, but I don’t personally have any. And I like it that way.
Good.
Anyone who gets in bed with a company that uses these products deserves all the shit coming their way.
Until all companies start doing this.
Good thing we don’t need to rely on software companies for video chat.
Another feature no one asked for.
Oh, this was asked for, I assure you.
Not by workers, but it was asked for.
Eh, most companies that allow Work From Home are already tracking your login location and use their own robust VPN anyway that sends your login location to validate who you are. Teams is just trying to sell what most companies already do as a “new feature.”
I can’t really think of a way this is going to harm most users unless you’re already trying to scam your employer by vacationing without using your PTO and trying to show up to meetings from the hotel WiFi, or working two jobs. (Both of which I’ve had to deal with managing WFH teams.)
You, the worker, are not Microsoft’s customer. You and your data are the product.
If you are not the customer, you are the product!
No. I’m sure managers asked for this…
Well i guess i am lucky because my laptop remains on site and i connect to vdi and then rdp to my laptop. (When working from home) so the data will be meaningless. At least in my case.
That particular data is meaningless in all cases
As always it’s the worst product that got the most marketing that gets used by everyone.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
I think it’s more the case it gets bundled in for free (or near enough) with other MS crap like Office.
Apparently it’s dirt cheap as compared to alternatives
Lmao any corporate IT department can do this at any time anyways
Well, the IT stuff made a log of it, but I think teams is promising to actually rat on you. Like, if it detects it, it’ll send a notice to the boss that you’re being remote
It updates your location status to “in the office”
It also changes to “away” if you don’t move the mouse for long enough.
Anyone looking to these as workers not doing their job, is looking in the wrong place.
Jokes on them! My company made everyone remote during COVID. It worked so well that they sold the corporate office buildings. We are all remote permanently! As long as I work my scheduled hours, they don’t care where in the world I am.
Can I work at your workplace? Do they need an IT guy?
I’ve gone through two companies that embraced Work From Home, a lot of companies saw no drop in productivity or results from having their employees comfortable and able to get to work on time.
One company didn’t go down without a fight, it took all the employees including myself, a manager, to speak up and talk to corporate and the CEO’s and say that my team and I oppose returning to the office, we don’t see a reason for it, and many of us will consider alternatives. They key point here is I backed it up with data, showing we only gained productivity and revenue since moving to WFH.
Despite all the hyped headlines out there about “Covid is over, time to go back to work!” we’ve seen for the last couple years, a lot of the changes it ushered in have become permanent. I know a lot of companies yanked the choke-chain around their employee’s necks, but not all.
The second company I moved to was already about 50% WFH, a much larger company too, and they made it totally optional, and they benefited a lot from being able to recruit talent from basically anywhere in the world.
We JUST did this. I work in commercial real estate and we talked about it in 2018 but management chickened out. After the Pandemic, they forced us to go back for a year but moral fell to the lowest point ever and we couldn’t hire anyone.
Finally, it was time to decide on renewing our lease again and we switched back to remote. It’s been awesome and we’ve hired tons of people from our competitors who are pushing in office mandates.
I hope everyone keeps pushing their office to change. It’s possible.
Lucky bastard
This is definitely a step in the right direction, but why stop there? They should be paying you for getting work done to some agreed-upon standard, regardless of whether that takes 40 hours a week or far less.
Meanwhile, they cannot or will not add useful features like…being able to have more than one fucking person share a screen. This is after YEARS of lockdown.
And don’t get me started on how basic their chat “feature” is. I mean…have they even bothered to look at Slack at all? And it’s not like Slack is the only one they might look at…how about Matrix/Riot?
Nope, it’s almost like they just know millions of users are stuck with their craptastic solution because it’s bundled into the rest of their stack and enterprises are going with it no matter how much it sucks balls.
Glad I work at a place that wouldn’t give a fuck as long as I’m getting shit done. This sort of bullshit undermines how people feel about work and likely harms productivity more than it helps (as is tradition with micromanaging people instead of setting them up for success and giving them the space they need to do their job).
Also, people who actually are slacking will find so many ways around this anyhow that it won’t actually matter to them because they already don’t care and are probably smart enough to get around it.
In my current job, I don’t mind doing a little overtime or working a weekend every now and than. They don’t care what I do, as long as it gets done. They don’t care that I go to the gym during office hours. I’m happy and I’m passionate about my work.
But if they started doing shit like this. I’d be working 9 to 5 and not giving a shit if work gets done or not. I’d become a drone and I’d be looking for other employment.
In a lot of ways, I have the opposite of micromanagement, they really don’t care what the hell I am doing as long as I’m delivering my projects effectively.
Sounds like you work at a place that trusts you to do the job you were hired to do.
My take is: If they don’t trust me, wtf am I even doing at a such a fucked up place? Then find a better place to work.
The sad thing is that some orgs that start off with healthy environments can slowly erode into really toxic environments and it’s like a frog boiling in water.
Sometimes it can happen very quickly - all it takes is one person of enough prominence being replaced with another, and something that took years to cultivate is shredded in weeks/months.
Unfortunately, I’ve seen both of these happen up close and personal. Sometimes it’s not always a viable option to try to pick up and move to another job…
Companies also get bought out by other companies and then change drastically overnight.
Yes, without question. That’s usually a fast-track to a highly toxic place, because often the people that they have acquired are viewed as just somehow being there accidentally, or worse, illegitimately, because the new management had no role in finding them, hiring them, and working to create/preserve a culture with them.
Also, many weak managers just want loyalists and that kind of personality just worries that they didn’t get to vet people so the people they have bought won’t be sufficiently loyal…
Fancy that? Don’t you love it when your work treat you like…wait for it… an Adult. Rewarded accordingly, help accountable accordingly. Who’d 've thought! 🤔
No kidding. What dystopian hell do people work in??
Are people just not going into the office without telling anyone? Like, who is this actually affecting?
Also, if they have to VPN into their company network, like assume many do, won’t that register as being in the office anyway?
This does worry me a bit. We have an RTO policy. I report to a satellite office far away from corporate HQ which i transferred to after COVID, where I literally work with nobody in this actual building.
We are supposed to go in 2 days a week. I haven’t come to the office in over a year. And the only guy I knew in this office retired recently. I will be surprised if my desk hasn’t been cannibalized.
I guess I’m in a bit of a bind now. Lol! Shit. I don’t like this article.
I’d view it as more of the opposite: a tool built into the Teams suite to tattle on who isn’t complying with Return to Office policies.
VPNs would depend a bit on configuration. I know my ubiqiti router will let me dump VPN traffic into its own vlan (with dedicated IP range), so it would absolutely be possible to tell it apart from local traffic. At the same time, I’m pretty sure my workplace has all site network traffic VPN’d to the home office, so I’m not if the same logic would apply…
Trust me, if your employer wants to know if you’ve been coming into the office or not, they can easily find out without needing Microsoft Teams to tell them about it. They can see what IP address your machine is connecting from. And if you work in a building with secure access they could also just pull your badge-in history to find out if you’re actually there or not.
Oh, my employer already can and does track compliance via badge-ins, so they definitely know when they’re getting a return on investment from the corporate real estate.
I hadn’t thought about the connecting IP address though, that would absolutely be logged.
Also, if they have to VPN into their company network, like assume many do, won’t that register as being in the office anyway?
If I’m plugged into the local switch, my IP address is a static 192.168.x.x. If I connect via WiFi, it’s dynamic 10.10.x.x. If I’m coming in via VPN, I’m crossing the external firewall, routed to a dedicated remote VLAN based on network permissions, and dynamically assigned 10.70.x.x.
A business doesn’t need Teams to tell them if you’re remote or not. This is just to wave a big public red flag and sow division.
I’m sure this “feature” is aimed at the tech-illiterate micromanagers, like the C-Suite, giving them a nice little icon, not at IT who can easily see this type of thing many different ways.
In my experience the illiterate micromanagers got the nerds to send them reports. Or set up a dashboard to give them a real-time view into how many local vs remote connections there were.
Our RTO mandate was December 2020.
But just think about how much easier it is to see the little icon right there in Teams.
I wish for a world where AI would be put to actual good use and vet such managers seeking such bullshit metrics and dashboard and icons like that, and inform the hiring manager(s) that this kind of thing is incredibly toxic and destroys effectiveness, morale and so on, and that unless such a manager could be retrained to drop such micromanagement nonsense, that the company should pass on hiring them…
What country? I didn’t realize companies were doing that so early.
I know our company started making some kind of noises about it - in fits and starts - but more along the lines of "when we are all coming back in, yadda yadda ", maybe starting in the fall of 2020, but then wave after wave kept happening, we started hiring people in other parts of the country nowhere near an office and people that were near an office started moving away to cheaper locations or places near their aging parents or near their own adult kids, and we started to hear it less and less…
USA.
Most of the tech teams spent their days working with people in offices across the country (and in Europe), so being physically in the office didn’t matter much unless there was a hardware install or something. Didn’t stop brass (headquartered in the Deep South) from doing their best to wag their dicks around (furloughs and pay cuts for those that remained were not enough, it seemed). Before another 12 months passed half the network team had left and there was constant churn on the sysadmin team. Didn’t matter. The company got bought by a bigger fish and the execs got golden parachutes despite nearly running the company into the ground. Meritocracy!
Oh, god, I’m sorry to hear that. Yeah, I still don’t understand, especially after Covid, how so many people in management still have such an obsession with in-person work.
I’d get it if we were talking about the Silent Generation or something. But hell, remote work has been possible since when boomers were in their prime working years. I remember seeing my uncle (boomer) having a terminal at his house back in the 80s. Modems were a thing, etc…some work was definitely something that could be done remote. Journalists had machines they’d carry around with them to send in stories, etc. So it definitely got its start long, long ago. Before I entered the workforce.
But often, it’s now Gen Y that are some of these managers that seem excited to get people into the same crowded space with shitty fluorescent lighting and lots of distractions, shitty chairs and desks, public restrooms, long commutes, paying for parking, stupid dress codes, etc…I mean, WTF. By the time Gen Y hit the workforce, remote work was something very well known and solved. Do they have some kind of weird FOMO for 90s work culture?
Bssids give away your location.
And this is useful to me how? A fucking retard HR person who wants you sick at work making everyone else sick too is probably who came up with this genius idea.
No, I want my design completed and my team happy. LOL today someone complained about having no excel in a machine that people normally don’t use. I suggested to install libre office and no one complained. In the past I had suggested libre office or open office for various reasons and I would get looked at funny or laughed at or otherwise ignored. Now thanks to Microsoft and the power of AI, libre office is a contender!
Yeah, I had ms office up until June. With all of their trash, I’m finally leaving excel.
Here I am working remote in my basement like a dumb motherfucker when I could have been anywhere else
This is me everyday. I should get out more.
I hope Teams announces when my CEO and other executives are not in the office. Just to level the field.
Hah, it will almost certainly have admin options that allow high level people to turn off that feature.
It’d be easier to list when they are
