Hey all. Getting right to it:

Last November, a majority of my wife’s family voted trump. I immediately made known my disgust and that I had no interest in maintaining relationships with any of them. My wife is equally appalled, but family is important to her and she chooses to compartmentalise it for the sake of their relationships. That’s her call. Typically, her mother comes to stay at our house for an extended period as we live far away, and this year I tolerated her being here for the sake of my wife.

But now, thinking about the next visit and how bad things have gotten, I can’t even stand the thought of having her in my house, let alone being in the same room as her. I really don’t want her here at all, but I will again tolerate her for my wife’s sake. However I think it’s likely that I will make myself pretty scarce during that time.

So the ethics question is - given that I expressed my distaste after the election but still remained cordial, is it ok, ethically speaking, to become more resentful as the consequences of their actions become more apparent? Or, given that what has happened since is pretty much out of everyone’s hands, am I locked in to the level of hostility I showed immediately after?

I guess the distilled version is - a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Edit to Clarify - My mother in law is not MAGA and I don’t think she’s enjoying any of it. She thinks we can “just not talk about it” and everything will be fine. However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can’t or won’t say why. Thanks for the responses so far and I’ll try to respond, but I’m about to start work shortly.

  • MolochAlter@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    3 days ago

    My brother in Christ you need to take a break from politics. People are allowed to make wrong assessments and come to wrong conclusions, it’s not a moral question.

    Unless you think the vote was to legitimately attain immoral ends, as in done intentionally to cause people to suffer, for instance, this is a person who mishandled her duty to the country, not a zealot or a monster. Just be chill.

  • HurricaneLiz@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    6 days ago

    You can forgive her and feel compassion for her for being misled and confused, but not allow speech that violates your own ethics in your own home. Bonus - no more resentment on your end, which is healthier for you, personally, regardless of what she chooses to do with her own life.

    • czardestructo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      5 days ago

      This is exactly how I conduct myself with my maga mother in law. Any bigoted shit in front of my daughter gets publicly squashed and any political topics are quickly dealt with and put in its place. She lives a life of ignorance, dont be mad, feel bad.

  • RBWells@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    6 days ago

    With my ex MIL I stay friendly because she’s great in so many ways, and just act completely ignorant when she says something awful, for example:

    ExMIL: I’m looking for a church but can’t find one that is Christian enough.

    Me: Oh, I understand. So many are just so worldly now and not at all Christ like, they don’t welcome the stranger, they do that prosperity gospel nonsense, culture war bullshit instead of good works. That makes sense.

    ExMIL: oh I meant they are too progressive, too loosey goosey (Paraphrasing)

    Me: Huh?

    Or

    ExMIL: I don’t understand this trans nonsense.

    Me: I know, right? Who gives a fuck what someone else says they are! You say you are a boy, you are a boy, it doesn’t have any effect on anyone else, I don’t understand the drama around it, at all.

    Basically whenever I get a chance I just intentionally misinterpret it like there is no possibility that she meant that, because nobody could possibly mean that.

    • edible_funk@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      6 days ago

      I’ve tried this. It usually ends up with them thinking you’re kinda dumb, which is ironic. But they almost never get the point and make the connection either way.

  • artifactsofchina@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    5 days ago

    Not in America so viewing you as on the front lines of this present catastrophe.

    Please do everything you can to avoid further entrenching resentment.

    It looks like your country is so bitterly divided. I’ve visited once, and my impression was then that there is a lot more grey than any media or the internet conveys.

    If you’re living close to someone who supported that maniac, please do what you can to build bridges so that they can find a way back to sanity. I get that it’s not fair and that responsibility should fall on them. But realistically I think you need to be the adult in the relationship.

    Please do what you can to build bridges and be compassionate, curious. Own your own sense of moral outrage and dignity, but give these people space to make their mistakes and learn from them, without your judgement. Direct your hatred and anger against the acts that upset you, but be gracious and kind in your relationships. Allow your mother in law to be wrong. Honour whatever is good in her.

    Don’t be a player hater!

    If she says something racist, don’t just let it stand. But where you can, see if you can draw out her reasons. See if you can uncover the true fears behind the scapegoating. Just let her be heard, without judgement. Be curious about the person. And where you can do so with humility, share your own beliefs and what is important to you. But share in the interests of being known, not of flag bearing.

    Give yourself space where you need. It’s OK to feel strongly, and to be upset. But please, do the work to build bridges, don’t let your family be divided by an utter madman.

  • LambeauLeap@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    6 days ago

    Dude please please please don’t let Trump ruin your marriage. Not allowing your MIL to stay for her annual visit when your wife wants her to is gonna be a big big problem

    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      6 days ago

      It’s not ruining your marriage to insist that treason, racism, intolerance, pedophilia, etc. isn’t acceptable in your home. If your wife chooses that over her marriage, then you are better off. She can live with her MAGA mother for the rest of her life.

  • MNByChoice@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 days ago

    I am of the opinion that not discussing these things is an analog to the Paradox of Tolerance, if not being exactly what the Paradox is about. If we don’t discuss the hatefulness, then the hateful think they are doing fine.

    Attacking only causes people to “dig in”. Passive aggressive actions will make you look weak.

    Being cordial while also calling out instances of hate as they occur would likely be fine. Be strong and confident, but keep corrections short and to the point (Imagine correctly a 5 year old. Understanding and care, not anger, and keep things in reality.) “That didn’t happen.”, “Why would a criminal say that?”, “Toddlers visiting basketball plays, will reduce the average height, but no one gets shorter or taller.”

  • magnetosphere@fedia.io
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    7 days ago

    However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can’t or won’t say why.

    I’m gonna guess that it’s because she watches Fox “News”, and that she can’t say why she hates Biden and Harris. She’s simply heard so much anti-Democrat rhetoric that she’s parroting it.

    Ethically, the choice seems easy. While specific events may be unpredictable, the themes of hatred and authoritarianism were obvious to anyone who was genuinely paying attention during the campaign. They knowingly voted for a complete piece of shit. They voted for someone who had tried to overthrow the government when things didn’t go his way. He had already been convicted of bribery and sexual assault before the election even took place. The man is simply unfit for office.

    Your level of resentment is by no means “locked in”. You have every right to be angry.

    The best thing you can do is communicate. Talk with your wife. Show her your post. Don’t keep your resentment bottled up - that’s not healthy. Hopefully, the two of you can come to a solution that doesn’t harm your marriage. If her family doesn’t like it, too bad. Through their (deliberate?) ignorance, they helped create this problem in the first place.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      7 days ago

      Excellent reponse, and sounds a lot like one side of my internal debate. On the one hand, since we moved away the only family she’s got left are welded-on republicans. But on the other, she’s been around for the last decade, and not knowing what she was voting for has to include some portion of wilfull ignorance. My wife knows how I feel, because she feels the same. She’s just very conflicted because she’s always been incredibly close with her mother, and severing family ties isn’t something she would ever consider possible. I intend to spend a lot of time in my home office during the next visit, and my wife knows that now.

      • magnetosphere@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        6 days ago

        Thank you for the compliment. Your marriage is my primary concern. I hope things work out as well as possible!

  • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    7 days ago

    I don’t think this is an ethics question, you’re asking whether resentment builds or fades over time and the answer will be very specific to each person and case. That being said there’s one thing I would like to point out:

    a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?

    Those weren’t unforseen, that’s the worst part for me, they were clearly foreseen, foretold and warned about, and I could potentially be persuaded to believe people were unaware of that the first time around, but by the second time you are obviously okay with all of it.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      7 days ago

      I’m being a little generous with that. I agree that they knew he was a piece of shit, but I think a lot of them thought he’d just hurt the people they look down on and not them.

  • doctordevice@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    7 days ago

    I promise I’m not trying to be dismissive, but do you think you might be autistic? I ask because I am and I struggle with very rigid thinking on how I should react to the consequences of people’s actions that I believe were blatantly foreseeable.

    I struggle with this very same issue in my own family. I’ve already gone no contact with my older sister who went full Qanon during COVID, and I barely have a relationship with my Trump-loving grandparents anymore. That relationship is a little laden with religious trauma too, so might not be totally comparable to your situation (I still have to vaguely pretend to be Christian around them even though I’ve been staunchly atheist for twenty years).

      • doctordevice@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        7 days ago

        This is the most damning evidence of all! When you become more aware of how your autism affects your perception, it’s easier to spot in others.

        I have really high justice sensitivity, and your description of your perception changing as injustices were borne out from their actions feels a lot like how I would react. I don’t think you’re wrong at all, but I don’t think your wife is either. It’s a very hard situation. I don’t regret cutting or limiting contact with my far right family, but I would have a hard time doing that with my wife’s family for the same reasons you’ve laid out.

        • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          7 days ago

          I’m definitely not pushing my wife in any direction, just listening and supporting. I have a hard time sympathizing with her attachment to family as mine were abusive assholes and I cut ties with them years ago. I’ll never suggest she do the same, but it wouldn’t bother me at all if she does. I learned a long time ago not to rely on anyone else.

          • magnetosphere@fedia.io
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            6 days ago

            I’m definitely not pushing my wife in any direction, just listening and supporting.

            I hope your wife realizes how lucky she is

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 days ago

      For me, there was a line, and that line was crossed this year. I was fine with just not talking about politics with my MAGA parents for literally the last 20+ years.

      But when they start putting people in camps, deporting people to countries they have no familial connection to, sending military into cities and brutalizing people with no due process, etc etc., then I can no longer abide.

      I literally cannot speak with them now without showing my absolute disgust and disappointment.

  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    7 days ago

    To your edit… it rather sounds like she is in fact MAGA and doesn’t want to admit to the “why”. there’s really not very many people who were both willing to vote for trump a second time and aren’t MAGA, even if they don’t want to admit it.

    from an ethics stand point, I’ll remind you of an old german saying. “If 10 men are sitting at a table with a nazi, you have 11 nazis.” You cannot look at trump and honestly conclude he’s an acceptable (never mind good,) president without also agreeing with his fascist and tyrannical bullshit. if she’s genuinely unhappy with the status quo, she can show it by protesting or something. Until then, she’s still a trump supporter and still part of the problem, and there is zero excuse for not knowing what he was about. he said he was going to do everything that he’s doing. (well. maybe not the ballroom or shitting himself, but details.)

    but none of us are the ones you need to be having this conversation with. we can’t decide what’s right here… that’s a personal decision you need to make with your wife.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      7 days ago

      Pretty much hit the nail on the head there boss. No matter how hard I try I can’t accept the ignorance excuse after what all of us have seen. Earlier this year I said to my mother in law “surely you knew at the time that you were doing the wrong thing?” She denied it. The best approach for me is to be around the MIL as little as possible. My wife knows that. It makes her sad, but she understands.

  • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    If your MiL voted for Trump, then she’s a filthy MAGA, stop making excuses for her. Live your normal life, yell at the news, complain loudly every time you hear another one of his inane statements, criticize loudly and often.

    That’s what it’s like in a normal, patriotic American household. Make her live like a real American, and not in her imaginary alternative MAGA reality, and stop coddling her treason. Tell her you won’t tolerate talk of treason, racism, etc. Call her out EVERY time, and tell her it’s unacceptable in your house, and in YOUR America. You can say ANTHING YOU WANT, but she has to keep her treason to herself. Period, no negotiation. Freedom of Treasonous Speech does not have to exist in your house.

    If she doesn’t like it, she can GTFO. We should no longer tolerate any MAGA bullshitp. It’s time to push back HARD, and don’t stop.

  • IIII@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    Disclaimer: I’m not American so will never understand your culture towards politics as well.

    I don’t think it’s fair to point at every bad thing Trump has done so far and say that’s the fault of your MIL for voting for Trump. The way I see it as a non-American, Trump did say he was going to be a racist xenophobic piece of shit on his election campaign, but the media heavily downplayed this, and Trump still tricked and lied to everyone. Politics is weird like that: you can theoretically campaign on one thing but then throw everything out and do the opposite once you get elected.

    Hating Kamala and Biden is a fair opinion to hold as well. I consider a vote for them as picking the lesser of the 2 evils, rather than voting on what’s best for America, because both parties seemed awful to me (a non-American).

    I think it’s important that you try to at least understand and empathise with why your MIL voted Trump in the first place. You were very light on those details in your post, which I suspect is because you’re very quick to judge someone based on who they vote for.

    Maybe she really hated one policy from the democrats so voted for Trump? Maybe she bought all the lies Trump told during his campaign and regrets her vote strongly? Maybe she’s a single-issue person who voted for Trump because of one policy and ignored everything else?

    • edible_funk@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      6 days ago

      I don’t really appreciate the way this comment equivocates the openly racist adjudicated rapist accused pedophile Trump with Biden and Harris.

  • ruuster13@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    7 days ago

    This is not an ethics question; it’s an emotions question. You are angry, becoming angrier, and hold her in part responsible for the reasons you are angry. What you do about it could become an ethics question if you engage in something extreme, but otherwise - who cares? Think about how actions might affect your relationship with your wife then choose what you want to do.

    • TheCriticalMember@aussie.zoneOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      7 days ago

      Huh. 🤔 Big points for flipping my perspective! The only action I’m planning is to spend as little time as possible near my mother in law. My wife is everything to me, her family are nothing.

  • bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    6 days ago

    Happening to my in laws as well. I warned SO this would happen and we need to be very careful or they’ll be full maga like my parents. The fox news propaganda machine has immense power.