Doesn’t that make it worse? They tried to hit and run, realised they were being filmed, and decided instead to violently detain someone for no apparent reason.
It’s also taking a lot of supposition that they were on their way to catch ‘bad guys’ already pumped with adrenaline and making mistakes, rather than the simpler explanation that this is just how they operate.
Just a minute ago, you were trying to convince me that violently pulling her out of the car was the worst thing they did, now we’re back to the hit-and-run, which we already discussed at the beginning of the thread. We’re kinda going in circles, aren’t we?
And no, I’m not trying to excuse that either. They should have enough professionalism to admit when they fucked up, and be required to pay some sort of restitution so she can fix her car and pay for her medical bills.
However, there might be more to the story that we don’t really know about, due to the lack of evidence about what happened right before the crash. At the bottom of the article, it states that ICE additionally accused her of having used her car to block their agents from getting through. While we can clearly see that the allegations that she rammed them on purpose are false, there is not enough evidence here to verify or dismiss that claim, but even interfering with them passively is something they are allowed to detain people for, if only temporarily.
Check who you’re replying to, that was my first comment in the thread. My point was that you’re doing a lot of stretching to come up with reasons why all of their conduct was fine. They hit her, but it’s OK because she was maybe blocking them. They were going go hit and run, but it’s OK because they’ve got important business to get to. They dragged her out the car and detained her, but it’s OK because they let her go several hours later (ignoring the lack of a real reason to detain her in the first place).
How can you watch videos like this and your first response to be to leap to the defence of ICE?
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said what they did was okay, and I still believe they should compensate her for the damage they caused.
The “maybe she was blocking them” is pure speculation based on their own testimony from the article. Since they clearly already lied regarding who hit whom, I’m not inclined to believe it until I see any evidence for it. All I’m saying is there could be more to the story that we haven’t seen yet, so I’m suspending my judgment for the time being.
You seem to be going out of your way to find some justification for their actions, I’m arguing that that is backwards. You can’t just lean on ‘they should compensate her’ as if that would erase the actions.
Let’s play the hypothetical game in the opposite direction. Maybe she lost her job as a result of this. Maybe that means she can’t afford food and rent, and ended up on the street. What compensation would make that OK, and how do you imagine she’d be able to pursue it?
Well, this is why it’s important to get as much evidence as possible about what really happened, isn’t it? Otherwise, it’s just one person’s word against another’s.
Granted, none of us here know the full story. But based on the evidence we have, they did not have grounds to follow through on any supposed charges, as she was released later on.
What I put to you, is that even if she had deliberately rammed their car in the first place (which and clearly hadn’t) the ‘officers’ reacted in a far more confrontational manner than was necessary, the approach to the car escalated to dragging out a nonviolent and unaggressive pedestrian within seconds. Do you think that is justified? Would you be willing to concede that this is an example of ICE escalating a situation by responding with unnecessary aggression?
I’ll also go one further, and suggest that this is but one of many examples of ICE creating more problems than they could possibly solve. The FBI is warning ICE to identify themselves, because now what is happening is cars full of armed, masked men are pulling up and essentially kidnapping people, I’m surprised no-one has responded with deadly force in self-defense yet.
Doesn’t that make it worse? They tried to hit and run, realised they were being filmed, and decided instead to violently detain someone for no apparent reason.
It’s also taking a lot of supposition that they were on their way to catch ‘bad guys’ already pumped with adrenaline and making mistakes, rather than the simpler explanation that this is just how they operate.
Just a minute ago, you were trying to convince me that violently pulling her out of the car was the worst thing they did, now we’re back to the hit-and-run, which we already discussed at the beginning of the thread. We’re kinda going in circles, aren’t we?
And no, I’m not trying to excuse that either. They should have enough professionalism to admit when they fucked up, and be required to pay some sort of restitution so she can fix her car and pay for her medical bills.
However, there might be more to the story that we don’t really know about, due to the lack of evidence about what happened right before the crash. At the bottom of the article, it states that ICE additionally accused her of having used her car to block their agents from getting through. While we can clearly see that the allegations that she rammed them on purpose are false, there is not enough evidence here to verify or dismiss that claim, but even interfering with them passively is something they are allowed to detain people for, if only temporarily.
Check who you’re replying to, that was my first comment in the thread. My point was that you’re doing a lot of stretching to come up with reasons why all of their conduct was fine. They hit her, but it’s OK because she was maybe blocking them. They were going go hit and run, but it’s OK because they’ve got important business to get to. They dragged her out the car and detained her, but it’s OK because they let her go several hours later (ignoring the lack of a real reason to detain her in the first place).
How can you watch videos like this and your first response to be to leap to the defence of ICE?
Because intellectually and morally, he is one of them. Probably, he’s just too dweebish to be actually accepted as an “agent”, even by ICE…
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said what they did was okay, and I still believe they should compensate her for the damage they caused.
The “maybe she was blocking them” is pure speculation based on their own testimony from the article. Since they clearly already lied regarding who hit whom, I’m not inclined to believe it until I see any evidence for it. All I’m saying is there could be more to the story that we haven’t seen yet, so I’m suspending my judgment for the time being.
You seem to be going out of your way to find some justification for their actions, I’m arguing that that is backwards. You can’t just lean on ‘they should compensate her’ as if that would erase the actions.
Let’s play the hypothetical game in the opposite direction. Maybe she lost her job as a result of this. Maybe that means she can’t afford food and rent, and ended up on the street. What compensation would make that OK, and how do you imagine she’d be able to pursue it?
Well, this is why it’s important to get as much evidence as possible about what really happened, isn’t it? Otherwise, it’s just one person’s word against another’s.
Granted, none of us here know the full story. But based on the evidence we have, they did not have grounds to follow through on any supposed charges, as she was released later on.
What I put to you, is that even if she had deliberately rammed their car in the first place (which and clearly hadn’t) the ‘officers’ reacted in a far more confrontational manner than was necessary, the approach to the car escalated to dragging out a nonviolent and unaggressive pedestrian within seconds. Do you think that is justified? Would you be willing to concede that this is an example of ICE escalating a situation by responding with unnecessary aggression?
I’ll also go one further, and suggest that this is but one of many examples of ICE creating more problems than they could possibly solve. The FBI is warning ICE to identify themselves, because now what is happening is cars full of armed, masked men are pulling up and essentially kidnapping people, I’m surprised no-one has responded with deadly force in self-defense yet.