This is so funny because rust has one of the worst cheating situations and majority of their players are windows users, and theres lots of games that have anticheat that allows linux and have notably less significant cheating problems like marvel rivals. in reality rust doesn’t take cheating very seriously because if they did they would have more server side software that detects illegitimate behaviour like tons of other games do successfully… even most popular Minecraft servers have better functioning anti cheat that is completely server side than rust has while getting kernel access to your pc. its pathetic and lazy development tbh and this entire post from them reads like such extreme cope…
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Let’s do some math here, they said:
More cheaters using Linux than legit users (…) .01% of all players base
Let’s do a quick math. The maximum peak users for Rust was 259,646 concurrent users according to https://steamcharts.com/app/252490 . Let’s assume 60% (more than half) of all the .01% users were cheaters, congratulations, you got rid of all those 16 cheaters… I haven’t played much Rust, but I’m fairly confident that there’s a bit more than 16 cheaters there.
And that’s without getting into the whole client side anti-cheat doesn’t work.
You dont understand linux users have black magic hacks that ruined the game for every player on every server, their power cant be understated… Theyre a whole bunch of dangerous hardened criminals
Explain something to me. It’s a multiplayer game anything that affects all players should be handled on the server side, not the client. So if I make a cheat it can only be installed client side, not server side.
So if my hypothetical cheat looks at object placement and any time I sees a small object approaching at a high velocity it can say “I’m going to assume that’s a bullet based on what the server told me about it.” Then my cheat would say “your character moves from here to here until the bullet passes by, then moves back. I will tell the server you moved to the left 20 inches in the blink of an eye then moved back”
This works because the server just trusts what it’s told in this example.
So there are two options here to resolve this. Either the server sets thresholds and denies any placement changes look like the Flash is playing rust, or the server evaluates suspicious placement changes later when the cpu load it’s under is lower. The first approach stops much of this instantly but is computationally expensive and could not scale well for lots of players. The second would work well enough. You need to catch cheaters but it’s doesn’t have to be within the same exact cpu cycle.
In either case, these work because the server is taught to look for something that shouldn’t be possible. The enforcement happens server side. The client doesn’t fucking matter.
There is zero reason to put anti cheat on the client side when it’s not a P2P instance. Target a few servers, not thousands of players.
Your head is in the right place, but your example is very wrong. First, unless it’s a very slow projectile that’s not how bullets work in games, second movement takes place in the server, to do so in the client is nuts. Client sends inputs, sever moves, gives back player location, client adapts. While waiting for a reply the client simulates the movement expected, but sometimes the server doesn’t receive the package and so tells you you haven’t actually moved and you teleport back.
What’s usually not done is calculate vision cone, instead the server gives you everyone’s position and you calculate whether you can see them on your GPU. Which is why if you can get access to the GPU pipeline you can tweak it so it shows you objects through walls. If you move the LoS calculation to the server you completely eliminate wallhacks, however that is very expensive to do (although ray tracing GPUs might provide a good approach in the future)
That week I played Rust on Linux before they dropped support was pretty fun
LOL
This is the same BS CrowdStrike uses to sell their rootkit EDR. I mean, by all means it is a very solid EDR, but it’s being used exclusively to cover gaping holes in discrete security as a cop out for not properly composing enterprise infrastructure.
A kernel space agent should only really be running in an environment where every process must be heavily scrutinized and the design of the kernel module is tightly controlled and itself under constant review, like in a proper data center with thousands of critical nodes. Not your laptop or the shitty windows box used to display ads in the screens at the airport.
Crowdstrike keeps spamming new features and techniques without serious consideration to keep their enterprise customers happy, similar to crappy solutions like Vanguard.
Covering obvious blatant logic flaws should be included in your server software, it’s the same as sanity checking your inputs because there is always the possibility in may not match what you expect.
From that experience, I’m very comfortable saying that if a game supports Proton or Linux, they’re not serious about anti-cheat
This statement is especially insulting to the massive library of games that successfully added Linux support without so much as a hint of issue relating to cheating. Even crappy outsourced dev War Thunder doesn’t need to do anything after enabling EAC/BattilEye because they actually spend the .000001% extra cash from their whale revenue to run a service moderation team.
Hell even Valve’s VAC system is mostly just about automating moderation tasks so that hackers can be taken down ASAP instead of a lengthy review process.
Or you know, the thousands of games that have better game logic than Rust’s anticheat.
This is actually one of the absolute worst trade-offs they could have made, if you think about it for like 2 minutes :
They said 0.1% of players were on Linux.
Even if they were ALL cheaters, that’s still a tiny amount of cheaters you just “banned”
Almost 100% of whom will just cheat on Windows instead ; whereas all the legitimate Linux players will loudly complain forever.
They decided to sacrifice all the free PR from one of the most vocal groups of players out there, in order to get a ~ 0% reduction in the number of cheaters.
In more simple terms, they just shot themselves in the foot for no benefit whatsoever (though I do grant it’s a relatively small “gun”)
Not only that, but the steam deck exists, the gabecube is coming, Linux gaming has been on the rise. The shit you did “several years ago” is irrelevant. If they allowed Proton, windows players with steam decks can now also play on the go. Instead they repeatedly have to poorly explain why they won’t… to stop basically 0 cheaters. I’d be willing to bet that the only people who actually stopped cheating in rust when Linux support was dropped did so because they lost interest anyway.
I searched just to see, there’s a python script right on github that claims to have an aimbot, esp, wallhack, no recoil and several other features, along with “safety settings” so you don’t get caught. Does it work? I don’t know, but the codes right there to look at and there are dozens of other results in the search.
they actually said 0.01 which is literally only 14 players compared to the average player base… they shot themselves in the foot to fuck with 14 ppl lmfao even though it’s unlikely the number is that small its likely just them exaggerating to make it seem like less people are affected
I also highly doubt their statement that more users were cheating under Linux than not. I’d like to see how they came to this conclusion. And if it’s so easy to identify who was cheating, why not just ban them if it’s .01 players? That’s like 7 or 8 bans. An insignificant amount of effort would go a long way here.
Remember when Apex banned Linux during a cheating low, and then cheaters started trending upward AFTER the ban? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
It’s not even real Rust unless it’s coded in the real Rust language of Rustlandia.
Otherwise it’s just sparkling oxidation
They dropped Linux before proton was invented. Go on any cheat website and the requirements will always say to have windows. Maybe proton is exploited by some cheaters, news to me. You should just ban windows, no more cheaters.
It’s not proton that is exploited. It’s the kernel itself that cannot be monitored by anti-cheats, meaning cheaters could install a modified kernel to mess with the anti-cheat
as if the cheaters can’t already evade anti-cheats even on windows.
Exactly. There are two methods that bypass kernel-level anticheat fairly easily, and there isn’t take any way around them.
You can run the game in a virtual machine, with cheats running at the hypervisor level. This level is more privileged than the virtual machine’s kernel, and can thus read or modify the active program without detection.
The other way is to load the hack into the bootloader, so the cheat loads before the kernel and, again, can thus be in a more privileged permissions state.
The only effective solution is to detect cheating server side, or change the genre engine so cheats don’t work (like loading all models with no line of sight behind the player, so wall hacks and modified game models don’t matter.
There’s another whole category that also doesn’t care about what the game is running on the kernel: seperate device cheats. They act as a man in the middle for the input and output signals, and can auto shoot when you’ll hit or adjust your aim if you’re close but not quite there. Or just play for you entirely if it’s that good at processing the output.
And blocking that isn’t likely possible without killing streaming for the game or convincing all users to get input devices with encrypted connections or they can’t play your game.
I’d respond to the original comment that anyone who doesn’t have server side cheat detection isn’t serious about stopping cheaters. In any case, I just removed that game from my wishlist. Not that I needed another survival builder game anyways, though they do tend to catch my eye.
Fascinating.
I will never understand, how people use their ingenuity to fake being good at a game.
Like, I get the hacker aspect of it: developing a cheat, breaking the game, exploit and find ways around the counter measures. Fair enough. But then you would do it once and showcase it, that wouldn’t disrupt a game’s community.
So there are people out there, who load cheats with the bootloader, in order to pretend being better than some randos in an online game. Wow.
Same kind of people who lie all the time to look good to others. Some people want to be awesome but know they suck, or even more pathetic don’t suck but can’t stand not being the best, and cheating is their pathway to getting the social results of being awesome without needing to develop the skills.
The way I’ve seen it for ages now, being a loser isn’t just about losing games, it’s how you handle losing games and how much you internalize that. I see it as short for “sore loser”. Cheaters are losers in that sense.
Though it makes the idea of them still losing despite cheating even more hilarious, which is why I love the idea of games that detect cheaters but stick them in cheating queues instead of just banning them.
Maybe it’s mostly kids? Like the genre of kid that told you their dad works for Nintendo so they have Mario 5.
Kids, and people making a profit.
Easier to make a profit off RMT if you bot and cheat.
They probably gave up on preventing cheat entirely, and are just trying to reduce the amount of cheaters by making cheating as annoying as possible.
I do actually believe them when they say that cheating on Linux can be made significantly easier and more comfortable than on Windows. I think it’s a real fundamental issue for Linux, multiplayer games with toxic playerbases can be unplayable due to users being able to do what they want. They would have to make systems to allow for playing in smaller human-moderated servers, or rely purely server-side solutions
And that it self is measurable. Never understood the attempt to have total control on byod setups. Its never going to happen lol
I mean, Linux player base is only .01%, even if they are all cheaters, they will literally have no impact… You can’t say “Linux user base is too small”, and “if you support Linux you want cheaters” at the same time if you want to make sense.
Yeah, but saying “Our codebase is so terrible Linux keep showing us new bugs we won’t fix” or “We can’t sell your personal data with Proton” is worse PR…
Developer of game ‘Rust’ talks about
anticheatrootkits on LinuxThis whole anticheat thing is so stupid. Remember when Sony got sued bigtime for including rootkits on their audio CDs? Why are game developers getting away with it no problem? Society is regressing and it’s frustrating to watch.
People are never interested in learning from history, they’d rather run face first into that wall.
The abusers typically.did read histor, saw what worked well, what didn’t, learned from that to become even better abusers.
This doesn’t only apply to games, it applies to politics, celebrities, religious clerks,you name it
People are never interested in learning from history, they’d rather run face first into that wall.
Just saw a comment in a topic about steam machines about “why do we even need to care about the past, its in the past, it doesnt matter anymore”
humanity is devolving to a state dumber than the chimp that scratches its ass, sniffs its finger, and falls off the log in shock at the smell.
TBF, you’d have to pay me to play most of these “anti-cheat” games anyhow.
BF6 is pretty great honestly
But I think you still would have to pay him if you want him playng BF6.
I can’t speak with 100% accuracy. I just have something that tells me so.
mentioning EA games like Apex Legends removing support is laughable. Sure Alistair, ALL those EA games ALL decided around fall of 2024 to ditch support for Linux/Proton. All at the Same time. Not because EA has a deal with Microsoft/Game Pass and NOT because a few months later Microsoft announced their own Handheld with Asus. Just like Riot.
So Alistair how long until Rust is announced for Gamepass with all DLC included?
I’d imagine people on Linux who want to play Rust would be more than happy to shell out $15 and go through the little effort it is to download DLC so they can play on a Premium server when the other option is to shell out $140 for a Windows 11 license and go through the effort of installing that spyware trash to their PC.
On the other hand, Alistair clearly doesn’t want your money so maybe stop trying to give it to him.
i didnt plan to anyway lol and i dont think people should bother, rust is not a game worth the extra money or even worth the time in general… and its damn well not worth a windows install, and i say that as someone who alrdy has one just in case on my system, i wouldnt even choose to boot up windows to play rust…
Rust is a shit game with a terrible community and rampant cheating.
The terrible community is an important gameplay mechanic of Rust
I’d say rust is a great game with the worst community and therefore riddled with cheaters and unplayable.
I think the game is pretty fun, but it heavily relies on the people who play it. To me it’s impossible to play. Rust players are usually 15 hours a day online. If you play on eu servers, good luck playing against mostly russians who have nothing going on in their lives than being assholes online.
I haven’t played in years but even then running your own server was the way to go
This is what happens when your game is exclusively a commercial product and not a creative work. This exact logic is why accessibility features are being implemented sparsly and slowly.
If all he cares about is money, let’s just not give it to him. There’s thousands of better games, more worth our time and money.
Minecraft is actually a good example.
Server owners pay very little to nothing for anticheat, and cheaters have dozens of extremely elaborate clients to choose from, all interfacing with the very open and moddable game. And still, servers that do give a fuck have basically zero rage cheating. ESP? Sure, but that can be solved as well. But beyond that, everything can and is detected. And that in a game as sandboxy and freedomy as MC. It was designed to have a lot of slack in movement and actions, yet ACs are extremely good.
I think the main tool is private self hostable servers. The big public ones have to think about anti cheat (more out of preservation of there own economy) but if you just whant to build with your mates. Have at it.
literally when i thought about it for even a few seconds i was like this is some bullshit minecraft has better cheat moderation than rust… the biggest servers all manage to do so completely adequately and theyre just community servers…
Can’t you cheat in MC by just removing a pixel in a block to make it transparent?
But I only ever played it coop, so it doesn’t really matter.
Basically, yes. There are many ways. But:
An anti-xray plugin is nowadays as common for servers as lithium or essentials. It either removes all important blocks from view, inserts fake blocks (eg. ores) or just makes everything appear as only stone. The middle option can even serve as evidence of a player using xray. For preventing ESP, you can do effectively the same but with players: Hide them and their particles until they’re in view, and randomize their sounds’ position, so that a client mod does not provide any more advantage than having decent headphones.
Server-side culling essentially.
