• Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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    16 hours ago

    As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in their behaviour towards creatures, all men were Nazis. The smugness with which man could do with other species as he pleased exemplified the most extreme racist theories, the principle that might is right.

    Do you think this way of dressing it makes you sound epic?

    • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
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      14 hours ago

      If I thought that fish had deep meaningful personal lives in Europe and thousands of years of culture, families that love and care about them, harvesting them might cause me a moments pause, but you’re making a strawman argument. Comparing fishing to deathcamps is fucking insane.

      • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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        14 hours ago

        That quote is by Isaac Bashevis Singer, a Polish Jew who fled to the USA to escape the Nazis. And he didn’t think it was insane.

          • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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            13 hours ago

            Well that’s because you’re drawing a false equivalence between the factory farming he criticised and a guy fishing in a lake on the weekends.

            • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
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              13 hours ago

              I also think comparing factory farming to the Holocaust is absurd. The Holocaust was not a vital food source for large portions of the world. I don’t like factory farming, but you and a Holocaust survivor don’t have the merit to make that equivalence in my opinion.

              And please miss me with “the world doesn’t need factory farming if we all go vegan” bullshit, I eat meat and you’ll never convince me, or likely anyone not to by making such absurd arguments. It’s why nobody takes vegans seriously.

              Also, how do you know a vegan marathon runner trains CrossFit?

              They’ve told you.

              • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
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                2 hours ago

                I mean is it really that absurd? For most people in the US, meat is really not necessary. The only argument would be it’s cheaper, and the reason it’s cheaper is because it’s subsidized. I’m not going to call out the starving guy in Africa for killing a cow or farming pigs, nor the poor person buying the cheap meat. I will call out a person who could swap off meat with minimal changes still supporting the animal industry, and the people who vote for the subsidies.

                I say it’s not an absurd comparison because there are some 300 million animals going through factory farming every year, where some animals don’t even have room to stand or turn around and get huge painful wounds all over their body. Same with broiler chickens basically being unable to stand and having heart attacks because their organs are basically being crushed from birth. Not to mention the people working at animal processing facilities end up scarred mentally from seeing blood and death 8 hours a day, where instead they could just be working on a normal farm. This on the scale of 300 million animals… idk like it’s maybe not the same level of brutality but the scale of the suffering is just massive.

              • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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                13 hours ago

                The Holocaust was not a vital food source for large portions of the world

                That’s technically correct. The Nazis did use concentration camps for slave labour to help their war economy, but slave labour was only a vital food source in other points in history. Drag thinks the Nazis deserved to lose the war, and adults who relied on slaves for food like the colonial Americans deserved to starve. And drag doesn’t draw a distinction between human slavery and animal slavery when drag says that. Drag wants to prevent suffering, and doesn’t care if it’s humans or animals who are suffering. Killing innocents to feed a predator only results in the predator getting hungry again in a few days or weeks. This is an easy trolley problem.

    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      15 hours ago

      (one of) the problem(s) with Nazis and the Holocaust is precisely that it treated people like animals. that’s what makes it wrong.

      • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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        15 hours ago

        Yes, treating anything the way humans treat animals is wrong. Isaac Bashevis Singer lived through the holocaust as a Jewish man, and learned firsthand what suffering is inflicted on the animals. He then wrote this quote.

        • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
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          10 hours ago

          We are animals. Simplistic in many ways many animals eat meat, and that’s ok. We do it too. We should do it much less from an environmental standpoint. Meat is good to eat, however there is nothing wrong with not eating meat. Plants feel too, not like us for sure but they communicate damage to one another.

          • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
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            2 hours ago

            Animals also extremely commonly rape and murder, and humans do it too. But we generally try to avoid animal instincts that cause suffering, even if many people naturally would do those things.

              • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
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                2 hours ago

                Yes and just because we do it doesn’t make it okay, no? Humans kill each other just like animals, but I’m not going to use that as a justification for killing someone.

                • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
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                  2 hours ago

                  Humans kill each just like animals because we are animals. If your back was agaisnt the wall would you fight back like the animal you are? Or would you run away like the animal you are? People do some crazy shit when we remove this thin veneer of human superiority

                  • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
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                    44 minutes ago

                    Yes I 100% agree which is why if anyone is in that situation I won’t fault them. To quote my brother after studying psychology for 4 years, humans are smart monkeys. The fact that we live in a world where that exists doesn’t make me not try and push for a better world though.

              • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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                2 hours ago

                No, drag’s implying people don’t have to do something just because it’s natural. Dying of dysentery is natural, but we try to avoid that. That’s why your argument that we should eat meat because it’s natural is silly

                • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
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                  2 hours ago

                  Eating isn’t natural? Dying or dysentery is natural, that’s why people still die of dysentery. My argument that animals eat meat isnt silly

                  • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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                    2 hours ago

                    Drag believes you that animals eat meat, but that’s not a good reason for humans to eat meat. That would be an appeal to nature fallacy. Dingos eat babies, but humans shouldn’t.