The worst-case scenario is now a possible one: European troops fighting off an invasion largely alone.
It’s by no means clear the Europeans would succeed. Romanian and other European officials at the exercise in Cincu, about 260 kilometers (162 miles) north of Bucharest by road, voiced concerns about how long it would take for NATO allies to make it to the front.
French four-star General Philippe de Montenon said he’s confident Europe could prevail, even without the US on side. “The direction of history is a progressive disengagement of the United States from the European continent,” he said.
it would really be something else if they fought them off successfully and the united states looked like pussies and assholes
They already do. US is currently the only country pushing for surrender (note, it’s not just Ukraine, peace plan forces stuff from US too, including industry help and money) while negotiating with terrorists. It will take a very long time for me to see US in the same light I used to. Imagine US surrendering to ISIS. Beyond humiliating.
No it wouldn’t be. Germany is suggesting forced conscription already, and so is France. I don’t want to see young men thrown into the meat grinder to satisfy the imperial wishes of either Europe or Russia
you raise a good point, and to be honest i haven’t figured out what the morally correct answer to this is.
In my opinion, the morally correct answer is to have a mild relation with Russia, consisting of trade and not much more. Europe would get access to a huge pool of resources to boost its industry, and stopping to antagonize our neighboring countries would help to drive down military tensions in the continent.
NATO was conceived as an anti-Soviet military pact, and any excuse for its usefulness expired after 1991. Now it’s just a military playground for US interests, keeping European money flowing to the Wunderwaffen of the USA Military Industrial Complex, and maintaining Yankee military bases in the continent.
so how do you respond to a violent invasion of a country like ukraine, which is made of people who don’t want to be part of russia
How did Europe respond to the genocide in Gaza? To the invasion of Iraq? To the blanket bombing of Vietnam, Laos and Korea? To the invasion of Afghanistan? To the coups in essentially all countries in Latin America? To the invasion attempt on Cuba?
Why should Europe exclusively react to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine?
that isn’t much of an answer. I still have no idea what your position is.
to answer your question though, I don’t think any of those invasions you listed are good things. I don’t think they had good outcomes, and I don’t like them
I equally condemn them, yes.
My position is: Russian government sucks, it’s a far right wing nationalist antidemocratic regime. Europe is just not really better or in a moral position to believe itself better than Russia. We have our own far right problems that we should locally take care of. If you ask me, a communist, I suggest having radical left wing organizations, strong unionization, and class struggle against the oligarchs and capitalists in Europe, and I would strongly encourage Russian citizens to do the same with their own government.
That said, I think that war is the least desirable outcome, possibly especially because I’m a young conscriptable male by demographics. My stance as a European is antimilitarism, I think Europe is as much an evil empire as Russia if not worse, and I don’t want state expenditure to be directed towards weapons and tanks, I want it to be directed to healthcare, education and pensions.
I believe that Russia assumes an aggressive militaristic stance with its neighboring countries that it considera its sphere of influence, because it doesnt have the soft power tools (propaganda, economics, intelligence, media control, cultural hegemony) that the west does, and it sees the west intruding in its sphere of influence (e.g. color revolutions in Ukraine and Georgia). The only way the Russian oligarchy and capitalists have of maintaining its sphere of influence, given the lack of soft powers to do so in comparison with the west, is through military power.
I want to leave Russia alone with its sphere of influence, and have friendly relations with it and China, and not have war.
Ban test
how do you suppose a mild relation with russia could be achieved in this scenario?
The way it was from the late 90s to the early 2010s: by allowing them to have their Russian sphere of influence (Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan…) the same way US ans Germany enjoy their own.
And if Ukraine doesn’t want to be a part of that, then fuck them I guess?
I wish you had the same level of concern for Mexicans, Venezuelans, Argentinians, Guatemalans, Cubans, Hondurans and Puertorricans. As a western citizen you should be primarily concerned with the consequences on the sphere of influence of your country.
Ultimate whataboutism final boss
Russia invaded a sovereign nation, they weren’t just minding their own fucking business
History began in 2022?