i much prefer where rian johnson was going, even though the main plot was meh. he left so many open plot threads that tied into the old eu that they could have used, but then jj went back to his first idea.
I thought it would have been cool if rey fell to the dark side and that this pushed kylo ren back into the light.
Like, he was clearly struggling to even UTILIZE the dark side. He was begging for guidance from the totem of Anakin’s mask, and Anakin wasn’t even fallen anymore.
Rey, meanwhile, seemed to demonstrate clear dark side aptitude and compatibility. While kylo had to STRIVE to act out and push himself for emotional volatility and it turned out kind of pathetic, Rey just easily slipped right into emotional impulsivity.
If Kylo watched Rey descend, attain what he thought he’d wanted, only to discover that it’s horrifying and painful, and that he doesn’t like what it does to her… That could have not only scared him straight, but also driven him to try to save her.
There were relatively few people left in the galaxy who were still even receptive to the force after decades of Anakin slaughtering every force sensitive individual the empire could find AND THEN Luke’s little failed attempt at reviving the Jedi order turned into a honey trap that lured the ones that remained into one place where they were all murdered right under his nose
Rey and Kylo were two of the only few people in the galaxy left who were force sensitive and ALL THAT POWER was trying to flow through them. Kylo struggled to overcome his inner good, what with the training he HAD received having been focused on the light side and therefore interfering with the dark’s influence. Rey on the other hand was just raw unfiltered potential, a big ole unregulated CRACK in the dam–as perfect a tool for the dark side to possess and manipulate as there could have ever been.
Kylo had family who loved him and were still alive, he had a home, he had a future, and not only did he have to struggle to throw that all away, his parents KEPT trying to reach out to him, right up to the moment just before killing his father lamenting that he WAS indeed struggling. Killing Han didn’t even measurably empower him in any way for fucks sake–he went on to LOSE a saber battle against a literal nobody!
Rey meanwhile had had EVERYTHING TAKEN FROM HER. she was isolated, lost, questioning, unguided, no prospects, and nothing to lose. Even Luke saw how she didn’t resist the dark side at all.
It still feels like how these films turned out was just a bad dream and part of me is still waiting to wake up and find out things were going to head in a more meaningful direction. Instead, everything that COULD have happened inverted completely.
At the end of TLJ, on top of all the other pointless house shit that happened in that movie, REY AND KYLO SHOULD HAVE DISAPPEARED TOGETHER because it would have opened up possibilities that would have been very satisfying
HUX seizing the power vacuum of the first order instead of literally the opposite, which was becoming even more of a sniveling nitwit liability
Finn, Poe, and the other members of the resistance crew would be in a position to actually be fucking USEFUL instead of mere comic relief–i especially despite how TLJ did them all dirty. Kelly Marie Tran’s character Rose Tico could have been a fantastic everymanperson POV where she grows in competency, agency, initiative, and leadership…
Instead of palpatine we could have had something actually interesting as a bigger bad behind the scenes.
Now I know this is controversial but … While most people only joke about the concept of a Darth Jar Jar, i think it could have been a worthwhile twist. Without that stupid childish vocal affect and dopey weaponized pretend-incompetence, he could have been legitimately sinister. Imagine the way the temperature drops in a room when a cynical sociopathic manipulator discards their charade and shows their true colors.
… oh well. It’s just going to suck forever now. Just gotta accept it, live with it.
the main thing was that while jj leaned heavily on the ot, johnson took things from the prequels. say what you want about them but at least they continued the story rather than rehashing it. of the top of my head, the most interesting thing they weave into the narrative is the possibility that the jedi and sith balance thing was based on a complete misunderstanding of the force. this ties back to not only the eu but also episodes 1-3, and opens up the gray jedi and force-witch paths again, not to mention that it basically retcons midichlorians. they also tried getting rid of the prophecy crap, which didn’t make sense to begin with.
I missed that part of it, I must’ve been distracted be the movie being almost entirely a clumsy re-hashing of things from ESB and RotJ.
Seems like an extremely boring way to portray a magical force. In good Star Wars movies The Force = Power. Obviously the name tells you that, Star Wars isn’t subtle about things. In our world, power has a tendency to corrupt people. It takes discipline and moral fortitude to avoid being corrupted by power. Same goes for the Force in Star Wars. Removing that eliminates the whole analogy between the Force and political power in our world. It makes it to be just some magical powers some people have and its not big deal. It says power doesn’t corrupt people, it’s just something people have for random reasons and there’s no consequences for people that have that power.
But that’s the nature of TLJ, isn’t it? Rian Johnson was unable to understand the deeper meaning behind anything in Star Wars and thought it was just silly stories about space wizards and went about removing things he didn’t like without any concern about it meaning anything. He was tearing down a whole lot of Chesterton fences, which later had to be rebuilt. And it’s weird, it’s not like anything in Star Wars is difficult to understand the meaning of, they are kinda children’s stories, really. But it seems like he came into it with an arrogance and didn’t bother considering why things are the way they are in Star Wars.
So Rian Johnson thought of Star Wars as just a bunch of random stuff that doesn’t have any meaning to it, so he put a bunch of meaningless stuff onto the screen. This only appeals to those that also see Star Wars as a bunch of meaningless stuff that has no meaning. If you think Star Wars movies are just dumb movies about space wizards than you might like TLJ. But for those asking for more from a Star Wars movie than just a bunch of dumb shit about space wizards, TLJ falls very very far short of the mark. This is why people say TLJ is a movie for people who aren’t Star Wars fans. It only appeals to those that have never thought of what things in Star Wars represent in our world.
i much prefer where rian johnson was going, even though the main plot was meh. he left so many open plot threads that tied into the old eu that they could have used, but then jj went back to his first idea.
I thought it would have been cool if rey fell to the dark side and that this pushed kylo ren back into the light.
Like, he was clearly struggling to even UTILIZE the dark side. He was begging for guidance from the totem of Anakin’s mask, and Anakin wasn’t even fallen anymore.
Rey, meanwhile, seemed to demonstrate clear dark side aptitude and compatibility. While kylo had to STRIVE to act out and push himself for emotional volatility and it turned out kind of pathetic, Rey just easily slipped right into emotional impulsivity.
If Kylo watched Rey descend, attain what he thought he’d wanted, only to discover that it’s horrifying and painful, and that he doesn’t like what it does to her… That could have not only scared him straight, but also driven him to try to save her.
There were relatively few people left in the galaxy who were still even receptive to the force after decades of Anakin slaughtering every force sensitive individual the empire could find AND THEN Luke’s little failed attempt at reviving the Jedi order turned into a honey trap that lured the ones that remained into one place where they were all murdered right under his nose
Rey and Kylo were two of the only few people in the galaxy left who were force sensitive and ALL THAT POWER was trying to flow through them. Kylo struggled to overcome his inner good, what with the training he HAD received having been focused on the light side and therefore interfering with the dark’s influence. Rey on the other hand was just raw unfiltered potential, a big ole unregulated CRACK in the dam–as perfect a tool for the dark side to possess and manipulate as there could have ever been.
Kylo had family who loved him and were still alive, he had a home, he had a future, and not only did he have to struggle to throw that all away, his parents KEPT trying to reach out to him, right up to the moment just before killing his father lamenting that he WAS indeed struggling. Killing Han didn’t even measurably empower him in any way for fucks sake–he went on to LOSE a saber battle against a literal nobody!
Rey meanwhile had had EVERYTHING TAKEN FROM HER. she was isolated, lost, questioning, unguided, no prospects, and nothing to lose. Even Luke saw how she didn’t resist the dark side at all.
It still feels like how these films turned out was just a bad dream and part of me is still waiting to wake up and find out things were going to head in a more meaningful direction. Instead, everything that COULD have happened inverted completely.
At the end of TLJ, on top of all the other pointless house shit that happened in that movie, REY AND KYLO SHOULD HAVE DISAPPEARED TOGETHER because it would have opened up possibilities that would have been very satisfying
HUX seizing the power vacuum of the first order instead of literally the opposite, which was becoming even more of a sniveling nitwit liability
Finn, Poe, and the other members of the resistance crew would be in a position to actually be fucking USEFUL instead of mere comic relief–i especially despite how TLJ did them all dirty. Kelly Marie Tran’s character Rose Tico could have been a fantastic every
manperson POV where she grows in competency, agency, initiative, and leadership…Instead of palpatine we could have had something actually interesting as a bigger bad behind the scenes.
Now I know this is controversial but … While most people only joke about the concept of a Darth Jar Jar, i think it could have been a worthwhile twist. Without that stupid childish vocal affect and dopey weaponized pretend-incompetence, he could have been legitimately sinister. Imagine the way the temperature drops in a room when a cynical sociopathic manipulator discards their charade and shows their true colors.
… oh well. It’s just going to suck forever now. Just gotta accept it, live with it.
What plot threads? People keep repeating that TLJ opened possibilities but no one can explain what possibilities it actually opened.
You wanted Rey and Kylo Ren to kiss in the next movie? We saw that happen and it sucked. What other possibilities did it open?
the main thing was that while jj leaned heavily on the ot, johnson took things from the prequels. say what you want about them but at least they continued the story rather than rehashing it. of the top of my head, the most interesting thing they weave into the narrative is the possibility that the jedi and sith balance thing was based on a complete misunderstanding of the force. this ties back to not only the eu but also episodes 1-3, and opens up the gray jedi and force-witch paths again, not to mention that it basically retcons midichlorians. they also tried getting rid of the prophecy crap, which didn’t make sense to begin with.
I missed that part of it, I must’ve been distracted be the movie being almost entirely a clumsy re-hashing of things from ESB and RotJ.
Seems like an extremely boring way to portray a magical force. In good Star Wars movies The Force = Power. Obviously the name tells you that, Star Wars isn’t subtle about things. In our world, power has a tendency to corrupt people. It takes discipline and moral fortitude to avoid being corrupted by power. Same goes for the Force in Star Wars. Removing that eliminates the whole analogy between the Force and political power in our world. It makes it to be just some magical powers some people have and its not big deal. It says power doesn’t corrupt people, it’s just something people have for random reasons and there’s no consequences for people that have that power.
But that’s the nature of TLJ, isn’t it? Rian Johnson was unable to understand the deeper meaning behind anything in Star Wars and thought it was just silly stories about space wizards and went about removing things he didn’t like without any concern about it meaning anything. He was tearing down a whole lot of Chesterton fences, which later had to be rebuilt. And it’s weird, it’s not like anything in Star Wars is difficult to understand the meaning of, they are kinda children’s stories, really. But it seems like he came into it with an arrogance and didn’t bother considering why things are the way they are in Star Wars.
So Rian Johnson thought of Star Wars as just a bunch of random stuff that doesn’t have any meaning to it, so he put a bunch of meaningless stuff onto the screen. This only appeals to those that also see Star Wars as a bunch of meaningless stuff that has no meaning. If you think Star Wars movies are just dumb movies about space wizards than you might like TLJ. But for those asking for more from a Star Wars movie than just a bunch of dumb shit about space wizards, TLJ falls very very far short of the mark. This is why people say TLJ is a movie for people who aren’t Star Wars fans. It only appeals to those that have never thought of what things in Star Wars represent in our world.