My cousin almost got kicked out of catholic school, because when they were covering this, she asked if there was any reason to believe Joseph hadn’t simply had a wet dream, and Mary rolled onto it.
Well, the catholic church at least says she was a virgin. When they canonized her, this is the interpretation they went with. My understanding is it’s almost certainly a mistranslation, but it sounds more impressive so they went with it. The original meaning was a word that meant “unmarried woman” and had the implication they hadn’t had sex (being unmarried) but it wasn’t necessary.
To quote UNSONG Chapter 17: No Earthly Parents I Confess (https://unsongbook.com/chapter-18-no-earthly-parents-i-confess/ and yes it’s chapter 17 despite the URL, and I’m sure there’s something significant about that but I am unsure exactly what offhand, but everything in UNSONG is significant):
"Picture a maiden lost in the hills.
“Maiden” can mean either “young woman” or “virgin”. Its Greek and Hebrew equivalents have the same ambiguity, which is why some people think the person we call the Virgin Mary was actually supposed to be the Young Woman Mary – which might change the significance of her subsequent pregnancy a bit. People grew up faster, back in the days when they spoke of “maidens”. Mary was probably only fourteen when she gave birth.
I am a kabbalist. Words matter. Nowadays we have replaced “maiden” with “teenage girl”. A maiden and a teenager are the same thing, but their names drag different tracks through lexical space, stir up different waters. Synonymity aside, some young women are maidens and others are teenagers. The girl in our story was definitely a maiden, even though it was the 1970s and being a maiden was somewhat out of fashion."
Yeah. Though I liked Ra more than There Is No Antimemetics Division. Especially the way he did a certain thing involving right versus left aligned text early on that if you were paying attention should strongly trigger a “wait, how did that happen?” response in a way that hints at very important things.
That’s what I thought it referred to also, but the specific phrase has nothing to do with virginity. It isn’t Jesus’s conception it’s talking about. It’s that Mary was conceived without original sin.
That part of the story is just confusing. The whole point of a sensus is to tell where you live now. Not where you hail from. Why he traipsed around Gallilea with a pregnant woman sounds more like a tax avoidance plot to me
So God gave her an Immaculate Conception … and Gabriel gave her a golden shower?
The immaculate part was that she was without sin.
Just learned that recently, but I grew up protestant, so that wasn’t a thing for us.
My cousin almost got kicked out of catholic school, because when they were covering this, she asked if there was any reason to believe Joseph hadn’t simply had a wet dream, and Mary rolled onto it.
Well, the catholic church at least says she was a virgin. When they canonized her, this is the interpretation they went with. My understanding is it’s almost certainly a mistranslation, but it sounds more impressive so they went with it. The original meaning was a word that meant “unmarried woman” and had the implication they hadn’t had sex (being unmarried) but it wasn’t necessary.
To quote UNSONG Chapter 17: No Earthly Parents I Confess (https://unsongbook.com/chapter-18-no-earthly-parents-i-confess/ and yes it’s chapter 17 despite the URL, and I’m sure there’s something significant about that but I am unsure exactly what offhand, but everything in UNSONG is significant):
"Picture a maiden lost in the hills.
“Maiden” can mean either “young woman” or “virgin”. Its Greek and Hebrew equivalents have the same ambiguity, which is why some people think the person we call the Virgin Mary was actually supposed to be the Young Woman Mary – which might change the significance of her subsequent pregnancy a bit. People grew up faster, back in the days when they spoke of “maidens”. Mary was probably only fourteen when she gave birth.
I am a kabbalist. Words matter. Nowadays we have replaced “maiden” with “teenage girl”. A maiden and a teenager are the same thing, but their names drag different tracks through lexical space, stir up different waters. Synonymity aside, some young women are maidens and others are teenagers. The girl in our story was definitely a maiden, even though it was the 1970s and being a maiden was somewhat out of fashion."
Hey I like unsong too.
Are you familiar with Sam Hughes ( qntm.org)?
His " there is no antimimetics division" is vibeally relevant here.
As is his many scifi stories about the nature of reality and such.
I recommend it.
Yeah. Though I liked Ra more than There Is No Antimemetics Division. Especially the way he did a certain thing involving right versus left aligned text early on that if you were paying attention should strongly trigger a “wait, how did that happen?” response in a way that hints at very important things.
Strange to see an Unsong reference in the wild
If we’re talking about Scott Alexander’s writings, I feel like Sort By Controversial reflects reality far too well. Fucking prescient.
Hadn’t read that one before. Fun.
That’s what I thought it referred to also, but the specific phrase has nothing to do with virginity. It isn’t Jesus’s conception it’s talking about. It’s that Mary was conceived without original sin.
She was a kinky bitch for everyone except Joseph
I mean the guy travelled miles around with a pregnant wife just for a census, he was either a privacy geek or really subservient.
That part of the story is just confusing. The whole point of a sensus is to tell where you live now. Not where you hail from. Why he traipsed around Gallilea with a pregnant woman sounds more like a tax avoidance plot to me
If that is the only part of the story that seems odd to you, I have some very bad news for you.
Oh no. The entire story is off. But divine intervention aside, the beaurocratic part of the story sounds fishy…
Even to me, and I’m German. We love bureaucracy 💖