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Having to learn and inform yourself of your options is truly among the most terrifying experiences of the modern person
Choice is good when you can make an informed choice. Choice is bad if you are forced to make a decisions where you have no idea of the consequences.
Worst when the newcomers chose Arch because they’ve heard is very configurable.
Then complain that Linux is hard.
I kinda have the reverse problem.
I started with arch and when I was making a beginner friendly linux laptop for my parents, I chose Mint and later switched to Zorin, and wanted to make everything as windows like as possible.
My problem that I felt like wrestling and constantly having to look what is in my system etc etc. Felt really frustrating and like I knew way less than I thought.
So IMO, distro hoppers are way more knowledgeable than many Arch users, merely from knowing how to wrestle with the system, where in contrast, all I do is install what I want and when I want to do something, I already know exactly and precisely what to look into.
Accurate 😂 Best starter move: just pick Linux Mint (or Ubuntu) with Cinnamon, use it for a week, then distro-hop later if you still feel the itch.
If I was using Linux mint, and I was satisfied with it, what reason would I have to switch to a different distro? Is Mint any less configurable than Arch or any other?
When I tried it, it didn’t feel all that great for gaming. Several games I tried had issues, and whatever tools would make it more compatible weren’t readily available for me. When I eventually tried CachyOS, much of that was fixed; my theory is that it was using more recent, less proven packages for some feature support.
I love Lemmy. I hate AI posters.
Where AI?
OP has posted AI before. look at their profile, they watermarked this cyanide and happiness ripoff too.
I don’t get the point of watermarking AI images. Like, you didn’t even make it, why would you be so worried about it being stolen?
AI “artists” are weirdly very protective of their “”“craft”“”
Not to mention that it was generated based on stolen content. The irony.
There’s a few tell tale signs but look at the USB ports on the laptop.
Also the weird facial expressions that don’t really match the vibe. Why is he smiling when seeing the list of distro? Why is he quivering in fear when asking how many there are? Why is he suddenly fine when picking one?
Weird expression you say?
At this point you’re just nitpicking
Ah, I see.
deleted by creator
doesn’t seem like AI, what makes you think so?
link dead
this:
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux,” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd/Linux system made useful by the various daemons and services provided by systemd, which manages system processes and configurations.
Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd ecosystem every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd framework, developed for streamlining service management on the Linux kernel.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is usually paired with the systemd framework: the whole system is basically systemd with Linux added, or systemd/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of systemd/Linux!
Now, let’s talk about systemd itself. systemd is not just an init system but a sprawling suite of software designed to harmonize the management of services, logging, and much more across all those Linux distributions adopting it. While there are plenty of critics who claim that systemd suffers from mission creep, and bloat, they fail to realize that systemd is here to unite the divergent spirits of the Linux universe into a cohesive whole.
It’s often cited that systemd is the first daemon to start during boot and the last to terminate at shutdown, meaning it’s the parent that manages the chaotic brood of processes that stem from it. But of course, the truth remains that Linux is merely the kernel within this greater whole. For many, using systemd without acknowledging its complex ecosystem is like using a bus without realizing it’s the driver coordinating every route.
While some advocate for a leaner alternative, the benefits of systemd are often overlooked, such as its ability to parallelize the boot process to expedite your start-up time, or how it beautifully integrates logging with journald, merging many separate tasks into one efficiently managed service.
In conclusion, while there’s certainly a Linux kernel powering many systems out there, it’s really the systemd suite that brings it all together. So please remember, when you’re running your Linux, you’re not just running Linux; you’re enjoying the splendid orchestration of systemd/Linux, or as I like to call it, systemd plus Linux.
Theres no beginners distro, just jump
😂
I’d say that beginner friendly distros are not limiting for experienced users.
Experienced level distros can be very hard for beginners.
Sometimes integer to them as “preconfigured” instead of “beginner” distros.
Although many arch derivatives fit that description and instill wouldn’t recommend them for beginners.
I use Linux Mint. It’s very good for beginners. I don’t recommend Ubuntu.
After years of distro hopping, I always come back to Mint. It’s just a nice balance of everything, though I do tweak it with a bit of a custom setup using btrfs with LUKS and grub-btrfs so I can boot from automated Timeshift snapshots if I accidentally jack something up.
I use Ubuntu its very good for beginners.
I use arch, btw.
Just kidding. I use Hannah Montana Linux, the only distro worth using.
I’ve heard that it’s got the best of both worlds.
What the fuck that’s actually a real thing.
…I love it
Hannah Montana Linux compiled itself in 1786 in Staffordshire, England.
Ubuntu is the only distro that tends to work for me long-term
What’s wrong with Ubuntu? I used to use it as my default distro back in the 2010s and it was very beginner friendly.
I used Ubuntu for a while until about 7-10 years ago when they started bogging down the interface. I moved to Mint because it was easy to not have to learn new stuff. Here is a list of some of the grievances:
Advertiements for Canonical in the OS.
The telemetry is consentual and optional, but it still gives Linux users a weird itch.
Snaps are the default packages, which is not completely FOSS. I use Fedora now, and flatpack is a similar tool, but it is less bloated, FOSS, decentralized, sandboxed by default, and asks you too update packages instead of automatically doing so. Snaps seem to be easier for maintainers and supposedly has better security. https://itsfoss.com/flatpak-vs-snap/
People were irritated with the Unity interface when it came out.
Also, it’s corporate and that bugs people.
Debian is upstream of Ubuntu and a bit more simple. Mint is downstream and includes many of the QOL fixes in Ubuntu without the above grievances.
https://distrochooser.de/ & https://distrowatch.com/ are your friend.
And maybe a little later, when more familiar and skilled, maybe after having tried a handful of distros for a while, https://bedrocklinux.org/ (or even just https://distrobox.it/ ) means you don’t have to choose just 1.
Distrobox is fucking awesome
I wouldn’t know. I never bothered using it. Already had bedrocklinux. So distrobox seemed a pointless redundancy for something not quite as good. But it might be the 20% good enough for 80% of people… idk. *shrug*
Distrobox is fucking awesome
I still wouldn’t know.
ah, classic hangup. you’re looking for Debian with KDE
No no, don’t use KDE…
/s
All you need to know is that, whatever you pick, you made the wrong choice and you will be roasted if you ever attempt to explain your decision.
Unless you use Arch, then you have chosen correctly.
You’re obviously not using NixOS. I clearly don’t even need to try to use such a subpar stateful system such as Arch, you absolute pleb.
Am I out-jerking you already?
I use NixOS, obviously.
I use NixOS btw
You mispelt gentoo
Not true, you just become immune to the opposition.
I use Fedora, but I frequent the Arch wiki often enough that I feel like an honorary Arch user.
The Gentoo wiki is pretty good too
Urgh! Why did you choose Arch? It is just the worst!
Actual reenactment:
Screams in Debian…
Arch is utterly inferior because of its use of the Systemd “init” system, which is a bloated mess that completely disregards the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, and shouldn’t be forgotten for its sins and heresy. “Arch Linux” (Really Arch Gnu/Linux, or more preferably Arch Gnu+Linux (Unless you consider that Gnu runs on top of Linux, in which case it’s Linux+Gnu)) cannot be taken seriously as a minimal do it yourself distro when it hinges on an software that has ties with RedHat, which has had a history of forcing their woke Wayland Display Server (Even though Xorg worked just fine, suspicious much?), as well as their DEI onto the entire Linux space - where politics shouldn’t play any role. A WOKE company like RedHat has no place in the open source community. If you want to be a true and righteous Linux user, I recommend Either Void Linux+Gnu (What manly men like myself use) or Gentoo.
Arch is utterly inferior because of its use of the Systemd “init” system, which is a bloated mess that completely disregards the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, and shouldn’t be forgotten for its sins and heresy.
So… do arch without systemd. (And not listed there, because its live-installer iso comes with systemd, is parabola linux, which does let you install with any of many init systems).
Or as you say, any of many other distros that offer init-freedom.
Though I’m not entirely sure if I’m replying to an instance of poe’s law, intended to mock those of us who see things largely like you depicted. n_n Which is fun.
PS,
history of forcing their woke Wayland Display Server (Even though Xorg worked just fine, suspicious much?),
Yes. Actively inhibiting development of Xorg. The tighter they squeeze the more of us slip through their fingers. Now there’s XLibre (a Xorg fork, to continue (otherwise actively inhibited) patching and developing), and even Pheonix (a from-scratch implementation of the X11 protocol written in zig! ~ give it a couple years). Exciting times.
Frankly I’m not even keen on the idea of pulse audio either. Funny how all this “Lennartware”'s so contemptable… from Lennart Poettering, who then went to work for Microsoft. Funny eh? Funny how it’s almost like it’s following the same ruthless dastardly insidious method of unscrupulously building a monopoly, via “embrace, extend, extinguish”. Not a fan of pulseaudio, systemd, and wayland. Much prefer free software stays closer to being in human reach, so more of us can make use of the 4 freedoms of free software. So it’s not just “free software” in name only, but in practice too.
It says something about how sad of a state the world is in when I can’t tell if this is satire or not.
I mean, it’s both good and bad. The amount of downvotes mean there is a large subset of folks who no longer recognize the twisting of stallman’s rant. They are new to linux, and not super-serious-no-casuals-allowed penguin lovers. It’s bad because I would love if everyone coming to linux could be as into it as I am. People who are invested into a thing take a much deeper look at things, and can appreciate it’s soft and jagged parts and then properly make recommendations on how to change things.
There has beenI have noticed a marked increase in argumentum populum, argumentum ad lapidem and argumentum ad novitatem, with the influx of new users (in recent years), who seem to be coming to “Linux” like it’s another platform; another groupthink team to switch to [“PC vs Mac”], rather than Linux just being a kernel that has a license that qualifies it as having a Free Software philosophy, and the free software (free as in freedom) being the reason to use it.Like they’re still caught in, not just the fallacies and identity-attachment mass-formation malady, but also a consumerism and a dependence paradigm, rather than embracing the freedom to learn, to empower themselves and each other.
It’s daunting to think, many may not know they can look deeper into it, not merely just use the software, but also study it, and change it, and share their changes… like they don’t know how we got here.
Freedom forgotten is freedom lost.
The age of the account makes it even more nebulous
Void Linux+Gnu
Uhh, it’s GNU SLASH Linux actually
There are many correct distro choices (except Ubuntu), but the only correct desktop environment is KDE Plasma.
If Cosmic keeps evolving, it could win me over.
People go about it backwards when recommending/choosing. Beginners should be encouraged pick the desktop environment first (my KDE preference excluded the universal recommendation of Mint). Then the next decision should be stability vs fast updates (potential instability); and then ease of finding support for the inevitable problems they run into (beginners might find it easiest to find support for Debian based distros). Then you’ll have a handful of options left and it really makes no difference which of those are picked.
That being said, I had constant problems when I was starting and the distro with which I managed to get there best start was OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Yet my most downvoted comment ever on Lemmy is suggesting Tumbleweed to beginners.
I think starting with the DE is solid advice. I remember using Ubuntu with Unity many, many moons ago and being put off by the DE, which ultimately delayed my move to desktop Linux. Then I tried Kubuntu and was like, ah, I didn’t know it could be this good. Finally, I tried Mint with Cinnamon and was hooked.
KDE is good for a first go at Linux. I started with SUSE, ages ago, which was nice enough.
But by now, I’m just more of a gnome fan. I don’t know how that will change if I dig deeper into window management logic, but right now, it just works for me.
I’ve now gone down this rabbit hole several times now and installed several of them many many times over now just figuring it all out and finally getting a stable setup which took a few months.
From my perspective after doing all of that : Chances are if you are not a developer, high end cgi artist, or specialized in tech, you might just need something safe like Ubuntu. At least just grab it to start. It gets you up and running, nice interface. Easy to use. Works for basic out of the box stuff making plex server, basic computing, house hold stuff. Could set it up for your technophobe friends and family and find it easy to just update and run. Big colorful app icons. Looks and works like an android phone for usability and easy to learn. Stuff even installs from a gui similar to how windows does.
You’d only go deep on something like fedora/nobara with some serious intentions with a high end computer where you just couldn’t reach some goals on Ubuntu. You just wouldn’t go to these ones if you didn’t have to. Those reasons also rhyme with kde plasma reasons/Developer reasons where in you absolutely need specialized software. And you have to be comfortable with swimming in the bios often.
If you don’t know and it sounds weird just googling it then just stick with Ubuntu.
I’ve talked to people in the Linux community gatekeeping hard on others who don’t even know about why someone would need kde plasma. So that should tell you everything you need to know about the fanboys. And I’ve taken heat from them only to have them breaking their own brain on the idea that people actually use computers for simulations or just use computers for anything other than what they would use a computer for.
so Take what they say with a giant truck of salt. Not even Mac users are as annoying as the some of Linux assholes I’ve met.
The fanboying to the point of blinders is maddening to deal with among Linux users.
I don’t have issue with Ubuntu personally. I still prefer Zorin over it though. It’s a really nice “transition from windows” type distro and not as bloaty as Ubuntu.
The fanboying to the point of blinders is maddening to deal with among Linux users.
Alien who has arrived on Earth: “I’ve heard that you humans drive motor vehicles to get around. I should get a motor vehicle. Could someone tell me the best type to get?”
Human A: “You want a Prius.”
Human B: “No, that’s for tree-hugging, probably-homosexual hippies. You need a proper truck, a Ford.”
Human C: “Actually, Ford trucks are trash, what you need is a Chevy truck.”
The fanboying to the point of blinders is maddening to deal with among Linux users.
Alien who has arrived on Earth: “I’ve heard that you humans drive motor vehicles to get around. I should get a motor vehicle. Could someone tell me the best type to get?”
Human A: “You want a Prius.”
Human B: “No, that’s for tree-hugging, probably-homosexual hippies. You need a proper truck, a Ford.”
Human C: “Actually, Ford trucks are trash, what you need is a Chevy truck.”
slow clap Half these posts are shitting all over Ubuntu. It’s fine for newbies.
Gate keeping Linux bros are seriously hilarious. It’s like silly No True Scotsman.
It’s fine for newbies.
As someone who used it when he was a newbie: Gnome is fucking awful to learn - it’s so bloody alien, it’s not even funny.
I’m now using a distro with KDE and it feels just right.
Fair point. Just remember that almost everyone that’s in the Linux Desktop space has formed a subjective opinion based on past experiences, and the popular hate for Ubuntu is there for a reason. Sometimes it’s a silly reason, sometimes it’s a valid reason.
Anyway, if I’m recommending a distribution for newbies it’s going to be (1) something KDE-based (or possibly LMDE if they’re a Mac convert) and (2) something as far away from Canonical’s shenanigans as possible.
former solaris / irix / ubuntu user here who works in graphics. is there a particularly good distro suited for someone doing davinci resolve, blender, inkscape, godot etc ? desktop use specifically.
what properties in a desktop env and a distro should I seek and avoid?
Frankly, the right answer is that pretty much any non-specialized distribution (e.g. don’t use OpenWRT, a Linux distribution designed specifically for very small embedded devices) will probably work fine. That doesn’t mean that they all work the same way, but a lot of the differences are around things that honestly aren’t that big a deal for most potential end users. Basically, nobody has used more than at most a couple of the distros out there sufficiently to really come up to speed on their differences anyway. Most end users can adapt to a given packaging system, don’t care about the init system, are aren’t radically affected by mutablity/immutability, can get by with different update schedules, etc. In general, people tend to just recommend what they themselves use. The major Linux software packages out there are packaged for the major distros.
I linked to a timeline of Linux distros in this thread. My own recommendation is to use an established distro, one that has been around for some years (which, statistically, indicates that it’s got staying power; there are some flash-in-the-pan projects where people discover that doing a Linux distro is larger than they want).
I use Debian, myself. I could give a long list of justifications why, but honestly, it’s probably not worth your time. There are people who perfectly happily use Fedora or Ubuntu or Arch or Gentoo or Mint or whatever. A lot of the differences that most end users are going to see comes down to defaults — like, there are people in this thread fighting over distro because of their preferred desktop environment. Like, Debian can run KDE or GNOME or Cinnamon or XFCE or whatever, provides options as to default in the installer, and any of them (or multiple of them) can be added post-initial-installation. You wouldn’t say that a car is good or bad based on the setting of the thermostat as it comes from the dealer, like.
I tried to encourage fellow Linux users to just encourage one distro. It doesn’t have to be a good distro, but just one the person is least likely to run into issues with and if they do, the most likely to be able to find solutions easily for their issues. Things like Ubuntu and Mint clearly fit the bill. They can then decide later if they want to change to a different one based on what they learn from using that one.
No one listened to me, because everyone wants to recommend their personal favorite distro rather than what would lead to the least problems for the user and would be the easiest to use. A person who loves PopOS will insist the person must use PopOS. A person who loves Manjaro will insist that the person must use Manjaro. Linux users like so many different distros that this just means everyone recommends something different and just make it confusing.
I gave up even bothering after awhile. Linux will never be big on desktop unless some corporation pushes a Linux-based desktop OS.
I always recommend Mint. I’m neither particularly fond of the DE nor do I personally use Debian / Ubuntu any more, but I still think it’s a great “beginner” distro.
I use Nobara, which is Fedora-based, and I think it’s great for gaming, but I’m not sure support for it is thorough enough for people who can’t confidently wade into configs.
Mint doesn’t use KDE out of the box. They have an own DE called Cinnamon.
Good shout! I vaguely remembered “not Gnome” (or at least not the Gnome I’m used to) and my mind went straight to KDE. I’ll fix that.
Ah, I thought you mixed them up, because they both look Windows-y in their default configuration. 🙃
People need to put their egos aside and recommend a distro suited to a soft landing for a new person. That includes knowing that person’s technical skill and who around them will help when real issues pop up that require hand-holding and not just “Well, there’s a forum and you ask there.”
IMO that’s Mint, but I also haven’t found a distro that has tempted me away from Mint, either.
Linux will never be big on desktop unless some corporation pushes a Linux-based desktop OS.
And of all possible companies, Valve is the one that’s made the most progress with this.
Valve is working on it, just need them to have a public build of steam os
