You must log in or register to comment.
The power that repels the vampire is supposedly god, which is supposedly stronger than the US Gov (citation needed) meaning no.
However a good question is what exactly is a home and does it need to be sanctified? Can a Vampire enter a graveyard blessed by a cardinal when a groundskeeper lives on the far side?
Being as that god is typically considered to be the Christian God, then the dogmatic principle of, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” should come into play, at least in the western world. Their invitation is from the true owner of the home, the state, which supersedes the current occupants authority as, “all nations are created by God”.
However there may be some concept of primacy of house and home that in God’s eyes turns out to be more important than the political societal contract we live under that has an exemption for protection from evil supernatural entities, as otherwise a long-lived vampire could simply manipulate the population to get themselves elected as a ruler and cause the citizens to lose one of their fundamental protections from the denizens of the night.
That being said, most law-abiding homeowners would probably permit the entry based on the existence of the warrant by default, so it’s likely a moot point.
Legally? Yes. Physically? No.
Y’all this one is simple.
Legally, yes.
Physically (for supernatural reasons), no.
This is the answer I choose to accept.
“Can I enter your home to arrest you?”
“I don’t know officer squints eyes …can you?”
"I am not resisting arrest. I am merely standing inside my home to be arrested. Why would I step outside to be arrested?
What if they’re serving an eviction notice and it’s no longer your home?
Then you don’t have the authority to grant them entrance
You technically aren’t evicted until you’re served the notice
Haha good luck with that vampire man
Must be dumb friends. The answer is no.
A warrant isn’t permission from the owner, or anyone inside the house.
but it’s a cop so likely won’t be following the rules even for a vampire
Lol, well you have a point there.
Cops don’t follow rules because there’s no one enforcing them. Vampires can’t enter homes because god stops them from doing so. So even a cop vampire would need to follow this rule or be turned to ash for not being a Gentleman.
I know, I know. It’s a joke and all. I just felt the need to add context on why these rules exist and why their not just arbitrary laws that vampires can just chose to ignore.
yeah i just thought it would be funny to think cops would ignore even supernatural laws because they’re just that shitty
Tbh, that does sound kind of dope 😂
But what is ownership? Ownership is the society-recognized right to the exclusive use of property. But society establishes certain limitations on those rights, including requirements to allow the lawful access by law enforcement to the property.
You intrinsically give law enforcement permission to access property if they have a warrant. It’s just part of the bargain of land ownership.
I can see how this mere question can end friendships…
What if you’re renting? What if the house was appropriated? What if there’s a land dispute? What if the land was appropriated? What if it fall under imminent domain? What if it’s split ownership? What if there’s a dissociative personality involved?
There’s so much to be straight up dismissive as “they’re dumb friends”.
[In the US] A warrant is permission from the representative of a governmental entity that is ultimately in charge of the land and could legally take it from you, so if theydo take it from you, do you still own it? Even if you can’t get it back? By that logic does the US own any of the land, since it was first the land of a different peoples?
All of those things (Landlords, disputed owners, etc.) don’t apply if they aren’t in the house.
This is really that simple.
But how does it apply? Any 4 walls and a ceiling? Does a window count as being open to invitation? If the vampire knocks down a wall is it now outdoors and they’re free to go anywhere that was formerly “inside”
If I put a box I own in someone else’s house the vampire has access to can he not access my box while I’m in it? What about a casita style house inside a larger house, like a mother-in-law suite?
Can anyone inside invite them? Can they have a thrall of theirs force or trick their way inside and invite the vampire in?
Ability to seize isn’t the act of seizure nor by that definition is any land owned because most everything has been taken by force at some point.
Renting wouldn’t change anything unless they got permission from the owner.
Actually the answer is yes, you mention ownership as a key thing for your logic. Hence ownership is transferred to owners, managers of managers, bosses of bosses, etc. Hence yes they would be allowed.
You however misunderstand the implications of vampires. Vampires are essentially a criticism of the old who have lived to long, grown withered and cold. Husks of man with no life or soul left to gleam joy.
However they still don the mask of man and must weave within society. They are bound to be polite as they are not to arouse alarm, the alarm will be the corpse they leave behind. The youth they have sapped and the decrepit infection he has implanted.
Come on man, seems like an obvious metaphor for old men being polite and exploiting young women for the sake of ‘new blood’ or allusions to virginity. The yes is not about ownership, it is about concent.
If the owner isn’t in the house, then they don’t have any right to give permission.
Vampires don’t care about mortal laws.
So the who owns it? If you own a house, you are still owned by the government that leases you that land at tax deductions. Or would the bloodidst own it?
Oh god, I blame Nosferatu for most of the terrible vampire tropes.
This is important.
Kicks down the door with his non-vampire partner who enters first … non-vampire steps inside the building and tells his vampire friend to come in
I see you too have played in a World of Darkness game. 😜
We are all playing in a World of Darkness game on this glorious day.
Ravnos or Brujah, fang?
You’re adding policemen to the question. This is null.
A vampire police officer would have to abide by both rules. They would need a warrant and an invite. A warrant is legal permission, but not an invite.
No they wouldn’t tbh
Needs reasoning
My wife asked me this just this week! I said that it would depend on how far the vampire is ‘removed’ from vampires “tradition”. As in, if they were a more recent conversion, maybe more archaic methods like legalistic language wouldn’t be enough and a vampire cop could enter with just a warrant. But I think an older vampire-cop who would be more bound by whatever lore suits the trespassing curse/stigma, would still be unable to enter your home without your express permission. Its about domain, not so much ownership.
Yes, you agreed to the Terms of Service (aka Social Contract). For people in the USA, that includes the 4th amendment, which explicitly allows law enforcement (living or semi-living) to enter with a warrant. Therefore you have granted permission to enter.
If they don’t have a warrant, or if they messed up the paperwork somehow, then they burst into flame.
Permission isn’t an invitation. They need to be invited in, not have permission to enter.
Can a vampire not break and enter? Would an invitation work if they were out of town and needed the vampire to cat sit for a weekend? Does you being in the house have an effect on the invitation or it deed based? How are renters handled? So many questions!
If you’re like me, you’re frustrated with vampire law. Here at Vampire Law, we help to keep your invitations clear and any misunderstandings cleared up.
Express, verbal consent if there is a person in the house. No one in the house = no need to grant permission.
I don’t know about that. So, if they ask, “can I come in?” and you say, “Yes.” then they still can’t come in?
But if you’re born in the USA, you didn’t agree to any ToS it was forced upon you at birth. Never chose to accept/agree to them, but obligated to follow them or face punishment.
A contract signed under duress is invalid.
While birth is certainly a state of duress for everyone involved, the term would have extreme difficulty in just about any court (glances at the current state of US judicial system uh. mostly.) — though I get where you’re coming from and don’t entirely disagree.
What a world it would be if those cosplaying porklets burst into flames simply by acting outside the Rules As Written. 🤩🥓🔥🤣 ACAB.
That would be pretty good.
If you’ve voted, you’ve essentially agreed to the ToS
I don’t think voting implies content. People continue to consent with some laws out of moral duty others because they like life outside of a cell.
Participated in democracy? Devoured by vampires, lmao
A fitting end
What if im an illegalist who doesnt pay taxes and reinforces my home’s exterior?
I am not a vampire lawyer, but vampire courts do tend to side with the vampire when these types of questions come up after the fact.
Courts are just cosplayers. Probably not even real vampires.
The protection is usually framed under the natural right to be safe at home, it has nothing to do with legal entitlements. i.e. someone considering a dwelling home makes it safe, not an arbitrary paper.
natural right to be safe at home
So nobody who lives under a state is protected?
No. The vampire is bound by a supernatural barrier not even the likes of Dracula can defy. Otherwise Dracula would be a judge to issue warrants for his fellow vampire officers.
I actually think you’ve just described the current political climate in the US.
I think the vampire physically could enter because the warrant is basically allowing them to enter a space they otherwise would need express permission from the person that dwells there. I haven’t known a cop otherwise to serve the warrant and then just stand awkwardly waiting for permission to enter afterwards. If we are to believe that vampires exist in this context and follow “traditional” rules, you best believe a vampire could be in any given profession, especially because night work is more prevalent than ever. There would certainly be a vampire cop who works at night and takes advantage of the way warrants work.
Vampires are older than property law, I think the power that keeps them out comes from physically dwelling in the place. As long as they’re still living there, regardless of what a judge decided, it’s their home as far as a vampire is concerned. Otherwise they could just ask each other for permission to enter someone else’s house. I’m trying to remember if this came up in Buffy…
What if they are renting?
It is still YOUR house bc you live and sleep and eat there
But that’s kinda the flaw in all of it. If I live with other people, any one of them can let the vampire in, but he never got permission from me then it’s not about individual permission.
If we say anyone with authority over the space can let someone in, then that would probably extend to the law or property owners.
To quote myself: “Vampires are older than property law, I think the power that keeps them out comes from physically dwelling in the place.” Just my take on it, I have no references to cite.
I think hearth magic doesn’t work that way. When you live somewhere and set up a presence, it becomes your domain. A warrant doesn’t take that away from you. You need permission to travel safely into someone’s domain.
Yes, a vampire could enter with a warrant, whether or not you invited him in. The state ultimately ‘owns’ your property; if it didn’t, then it couldn’t kick you out and seize it if you don’t pay property taxes. So therefore the state has the authority to give a vampire the right to enter your dwelling. (But what if the warrant was illegally issued, and so the vampire didn’t have actual permission to enter? Hmmmm.) Similarly, if you rented an apartment, your landlord could give a vampire permission to enter for a valid reason, e.g., the vampire worked maintenance, and you had a water leak that was damaging another apartment and needed immediate access.
But what if the warrant was illegally issued, and so the vampire didn’t have actual permission to enter? Hmmmm.
Vampires make better cops than real ones?!
So the State seizing land and demanding tax was really just a ploy to support their vampire masters. I knew it!
Ability to tax isn’t ownership
It’s not about ability to tax, it’s about ability to sieze. If the government didn’t own your land, then taking it without your permission would be theft. Since it isn’t theft if they take your land without your permission, it stands to reason that they own it. You don’t own the property, you own a piece of paper saying you’re allowed to live and build there.
If I own something I can put it to any lawful use without restriction or compensation. Neither taxation nor seizure for failure to pay taxes are anything like ownership.
Your mental picture fails to encompass the nuance which indeed isn’t particularly subtle.
“If I own something I can put it to any lawful use without restriction or compensation.”
This also applies to my rental property, because it would be unlawful for me to use it in a way that violates my lease. If someone else gets to tell you what you can and can’t do with your property, is it really your property? Whether that’s because you signed a contract saying “I won’t grow pot here,” or you live in a region where local authorities can simply declare that you aren’t allowed to grow pot there, I don’t see the meaningful distinction. Of course, the concept of ownership is an ill-defined social construct to begin with, so this kind of disagreement is irreconcilable. We simply have different ideas of what defines “ownership.”
As such, whether a vampire cop can enter your property using a warrant depends on whether the vampire understands it to be permission. QED
The entire planet understands what ownership means you are basically alone in misunderstanding
No, the “entire planet” has decided that states ultimately own your property–and you, since you don’t have absolute, individual bodily autonomy–and we use an incorrect shorthand in the way we verbally talk about property rights.
A job doesn’t change or define what you are. A vampire would not be able to enter.
You know, maybe Vimes had a point.
Police don’t typically execute search warrants alone. If I knew that specific policeman was a vampire I would address his partner(s) individually and invite them in, but I would not invite the vampire. Explaining to them why he was staying outside would be his problem.
In this same vein, if a vamp-cop’s partner entered the home, then invited the vamp-cop in, would the vamp-cop be able to enter then?
Good question, and I dunno, but I wouldn’t think an invitee has the power to invite others. Seems kind of dodgy.
Only the people living there can invite a vampire in.
But what if I trust the vampire cop more than the cop? At least the vampire cop admits he’s a bloodsucker.
your call
