Enlightenment isn’t about some mystical truth and seeing into the unknown. It’s about stripping away the illusions that cloud the way we see this reality. Those stories about the Buddha are ways to illustrate some of those illusions and how others might have come to the realization. It doesn’t matter if they really happened. A lot of them are so constructed that they are probably fake, at least to some degree.
One that really affected me was the 72 problems story (or some number lol, I only remember that it’s not 99, because 99 problems is from that Jay-z song, but ultimately it doesn’t matter how many problems “everyone has”).
For the short version, a man goes to the Buddha because he heard he can help him with his problems. He complains about his farm not doing well, his wife nagging, his kids not respecting him, a whole slew of 72 or so problems, and for each one when he asks if the Buddha can help him with that, the Buddha tells him no. Finally he complains that he didn’t help him with any problem and the Buddha says “everyone has 72 problems, but I can help you with your 73rd problem: the problem that you have problems. Problems are a fact of life, if you get so bent up about having problems, you’re going to have a miserable life because there’s always problems. Accept that the problems exist and you’ll find peace.” And then the guy was enlightened (in that specific aspect of life, since enlightenment isn’t a global state but basically just means “learned a deep lesson”).
I’d get annoyed at needing to deal with things. Still do sometimes; enlightenment isn’t some magical state. But when I notice that that is bugging me, I just remember the 72 problems story and dismiss that 73rd problem from affecting my mood. Which also indirectly helps with the problems themselves, because if you’re pissed about having to deal with stuff, you’ll be less effective at dealing with them (especially if your mood rubs off on others or attracts trolls). It truly feels like understanding that enabled an easy mode on some aspects of life. If the whole story was made up, it doesn’t undo that understanding or eliminate that easy mode.
Whereas I’ve known Christians who can’t understand why atheists don’t just go around murdering people because if they don’t believe in the Bible, what’s even the point of trying to be good?
I like that story a lot, it’s a good reminder that we may not be able to change our circumstances but we can always change our attitude. So would you say Buddhism is more of a system of thought and less of a religion? Kinda like stoicism?
There is a mysticism angle to it with reincarnation and all that, I think something like a belief that you keep coming back until you can achieve true enlightenment or something like that. Imo that stuff is a nice idea but I’m agnostic overall, so my belief in that regard is “who knows?”
But I do really like the Buddhist philosophy and think it has a lot of value because it doesn’t have to lean on the mystical side to work. It makes sense with or without any idea of heaven or nirvana. Enlightenment is worthwhile for its own sake.
I don’t think Buddhism is unique in that regard. All religions have at least nuggets of valuable philosophy. My personal belief is that Buddhism is denser and broader than most when it comes to that, but I’m no religious scholar so it could just be a lack of knowledge of others.
IMO the best belief systems pick and choose values and lessons based on their own merit rather than having to take or leave the whole package. I also believe that anyone can evaluate those values, as long aa they are thoughtful, honest, and willing to challenge any and all aspects of them. Someone can be more wise than another, but anyone can get there eventually.
You seem like a very emotionally intelligent person, and I respect you a lot. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with and worldview me. I think we would agree on more than we would differ.
Thanks for the kind words, it feels good to be seen sometimes. You seem thoughtful yourself and I’m happy you asked that original question in good faith. The world would be a nicer place with more like you.
Enlightenment isn’t about some mystical truth and seeing into the unknown. It’s about stripping away the illusions that cloud the way we see this reality. Those stories about the Buddha are ways to illustrate some of those illusions and how others might have come to the realization. It doesn’t matter if they really happened. A lot of them are so constructed that they are probably fake, at least to some degree.
One that really affected me was the 72 problems story (or some number lol, I only remember that it’s not 99, because 99 problems is from that Jay-z song, but ultimately it doesn’t matter how many problems “everyone has”).
For the short version, a man goes to the Buddha because he heard he can help him with his problems. He complains about his farm not doing well, his wife nagging, his kids not respecting him, a whole slew of 72 or so problems, and for each one when he asks if the Buddha can help him with that, the Buddha tells him no. Finally he complains that he didn’t help him with any problem and the Buddha says “everyone has 72 problems, but I can help you with your 73rd problem: the problem that you have problems. Problems are a fact of life, if you get so bent up about having problems, you’re going to have a miserable life because there’s always problems. Accept that the problems exist and you’ll find peace.” And then the guy was enlightened (in that specific aspect of life, since enlightenment isn’t a global state but basically just means “learned a deep lesson”).
I’d get annoyed at needing to deal with things. Still do sometimes; enlightenment isn’t some magical state. But when I notice that that is bugging me, I just remember the 72 problems story and dismiss that 73rd problem from affecting my mood. Which also indirectly helps with the problems themselves, because if you’re pissed about having to deal with stuff, you’ll be less effective at dealing with them (especially if your mood rubs off on others or attracts trolls). It truly feels like understanding that enabled an easy mode on some aspects of life. If the whole story was made up, it doesn’t undo that understanding or eliminate that easy mode.
Whereas I’ve known Christians who can’t understand why atheists don’t just go around murdering people because if they don’t believe in the Bible, what’s even the point of trying to be good?
I like that story a lot, it’s a good reminder that we may not be able to change our circumstances but we can always change our attitude. So would you say Buddhism is more of a system of thought and less of a religion? Kinda like stoicism?
There is a mysticism angle to it with reincarnation and all that, I think something like a belief that you keep coming back until you can achieve true enlightenment or something like that. Imo that stuff is a nice idea but I’m agnostic overall, so my belief in that regard is “who knows?”
But I do really like the Buddhist philosophy and think it has a lot of value because it doesn’t have to lean on the mystical side to work. It makes sense with or without any idea of heaven or nirvana. Enlightenment is worthwhile for its own sake.
I don’t think Buddhism is unique in that regard. All religions have at least nuggets of valuable philosophy. My personal belief is that Buddhism is denser and broader than most when it comes to that, but I’m no religious scholar so it could just be a lack of knowledge of others.
IMO the best belief systems pick and choose values and lessons based on their own merit rather than having to take or leave the whole package. I also believe that anyone can evaluate those values, as long aa they are thoughtful, honest, and willing to challenge any and all aspects of them. Someone can be more wise than another, but anyone can get there eventually.
You seem like a very emotionally intelligent person, and I respect you a lot. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with and worldview me. I think we would agree on more than we would differ.
Thanks for the kind words, it feels good to be seen sometimes. You seem thoughtful yourself and I’m happy you asked that original question in good faith. The world would be a nicer place with more like you.