• misk@sopuli.xyz
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    2 months ago

    Little bit of advice from Poland. I’ve seen this kind of mindset before.

    When liberals tell you losing will mean the end of democracy they exaggerate a lot. People grow tired of fighting with such high stakes so in the long run you just wear them out. Sure, if Trump wins things will suck definitely but it’s not the end of the world. Ultimately biggest political parties serve various oligarchs so once Dems are inevitably back some years from now you’ll notice not much is changing for you personally.

    • MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      People grow tired of fighting with such high stakes so in the long run you just wear them out

      This is true.

      Sure, if Trump wins things will suck definitely but it’s not the end of the world. Ultimately biggest political parties serve various oligarchs so once Dems are inevitably back some years from now you’ll notice not much is changing for you personally.

      This is where I vehemently disagree. Just because you’re not going to be one of the first ones they target doesn’t mean it’s no big deal. They’re talking about using our local police to round millions of people up and put them in camps, and you’re going to sit there and tell me it’s not the end of the world? Get the fuck out of here.

      It’s okay to be tired. Fight anyway. That is what is required to maintain Democracy. Giving in to authoritarianism because it’s easier is a bitch move.

      • Cptn_Slow@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I’m genuinely curious, who is getting rounded up? And who’s going to let that happen?

        • Anamnesis@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          He’s talking about deporting millions of illegal immigrants, which will probably require putting them in a camp at least temporarily.

          • Cptn_Slow@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            So the “camps” side of things definitely feels gross, but he’s “threatening” to enforce the law, that’s not wrong. Now if he’s weaponizing the system to deport his opposition or otherwise law abiding citizens, that’s a problem.

            • Kalysta@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              He has promised to deport pro-palestine protesters.

              Most of whom are born Americans.

              You’re not paying attention. The camps are for far more than just the undocumented.

              • Cptn_Slow@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Okay, but legally he can’t do that. No matter how much he wants to. And once again, orders are as only good as the people who are tasked with carrying them out.

                • Kalysta@lemm.ee
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                  2 months ago

                  He’s a literal criminal who has filled the courts with his minons and the police love him.

                  Who’s going to stop him? Seriously who?

                  His term this time is going to be worse than last time because he and the republican party have removed all the ways we have to stop him from doing whatever the fuck he wants.

                  Official acts are completely legal now. He can order protesters executed and the supreme court already said that’s fine.

      • misk@sopuli.xyz
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        2 months ago

        Will US under Trump be more or less of a Nazi state than, for example, under Nixon?

        • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          More obv. My post was a warning that a 2nd term would not be good.

          You should probably learn how to hedge your bets. What if harris doesn’t win? Would it be better or worse if we had more dems in congress for a trump pres?

          Isn’t it better if people who wouldnt show up for harris still show up to vote dems down ballot? Maybe stop attacking them over Harris and invite them to vote down ballot for dems by supporting their cause. Unless, you know, you’re pro genocide then you can fuck right off.

          Stop making harris support your identity makes you look like an asshole.

          • misk@sopuli.xyz
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            2 months ago

            In what ways will it be worse / more Nazi than under Nixon? Healthcare? Infrastructure? Minority rights? Black rights? Waging wars and supporting genocide in some third world country? Sorry to break it to you but US was always a borderline fascist state and that includes Democrats.

            • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              2 months ago

              Lol exactly what you think you’ll accomplish this line of reasoning? That you’ll convince people harris is the best option for their vote? You wont.

              That entire list is better dealt at congressional and local levels of the ballot, and is entirely unrelated to the presidential ticket. Stop wasting your breath on a failed argument. Also are you sure you’re responding to the correct person? Im well aware America has/is borderline fascist.

              • misk@sopuli.xyz
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                2 months ago

                I’m trying to explain to Dem voters that their moral high ground and calling everyone a Nazi will lead Republican voters to entrench in views pushed by far right even if they didn’t hold them before. Dem voters are supposed to be the smart ones so they should understand that, right?

                • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  2 months ago

                  So you’re arguing with a leftist to convince liberals that they’re assholes? 😵‍💫. I mean I already knew this, but okay. Not particularly interested in discussing the million ways trump is horrible.

                  Im more interested in making sure harris campaign is as rough and hard as possible because her positions are absolutely atrocious and we as voters need to leverage the conditions of our local voting environments effectively by voting strategically against her without risking trump.

                  • misk@sopuli.xyz
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                    2 months ago

                    Yeah, that’s what I’m warning you about. This approach has been tried. Whatever happens, it was already decided because you’re not going to course correct at eleventh hour and root cause of general discontent is much deeper than you want to admit.

                    If you lose you’ll go into democratic resistance, fight every single thing Trump does. By second or third year regular people notice that not much is changing in their lives and then you lose all of your steam. When actual bad stuff happens nobody cares.

                    Then in a couple of terms people will get tired of the right, vote for the libs and then you realise that those Dems have adopted lots of stuff Republicans did because that was the only way to get back into power. And that it was always about power. I’ll be there to say „told you so”.