It is sad that nuance is lost in this conflict. If you condemn Israeli action on Palestinians, you are accused as anti-Semite. If you condemn the October 7 attack, you are accused of being Zionist and supporting the genocide on Palestinians.
There isn’t ironic bothside-ism on this. Literally both sides are actually at fault. Majority of Israelis back driving the Palestinians out of West Bank and Gaza, and majority of Palestinians want Israel as a country to be destroyed. If anyone have watched or read Attack on Titan TV series or manga, this is a major theme in the story of intergenerational conflict. Two state solution is the only way for the conflict to end, and it isn’t like there was no precedence to lay down arms and live in coexistence (see how the conflict in Northern Ireland ended when both opposing sides agreed that enough is enough). But there is too much bad blood between Israelis and Palestinians to call quits any time soon.
Yes, everyone wants the occupation to end. So do you support the two-state solution and condemn the October 7 that killed foreign hostages who have no stake on the conflict?
False . Israel never wanted the end of occupation since the beginning. The west don’t want either otherwise they would have sanctioned Israel since 67
So do you support the two-state solution
I support one state solution because i truly believe that it is possible for Israelis and Palestinians to live together in one democratic state.
Can you tell me exactly how is it possible to make a two state solution when Israel separate the west bank and Gaza? Would Israel accept 700k settlers in Israel or will Israel allow the millions Palestinians to be moved to a new Palestinian state that is weak economically?
condemn the October 7 that killed foreign hostages who have no stake on the conflict?
Yes, i condemn Hamas killing innocent civilians and take some hostages during the 7 of October.
Now do you condemn 77 years of oppression conducted by Israel against Palestinians including the kidnapping and systematic rapes in israeli jail and during the nekba?
I support one state solution because i truly believe that it is possible for Israelis and Palestinians to live together in one democratic state.
That’s actually even better. But how do you think Palestinians and Israel would be convinced to do that? What people miss is the inconvenient truth that majority of Palestinians and Israelis want the other gone. Israelis voted for Likud, and majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas; both parties are ultranationalist parties. The slogan “from river to the sea” is being wrestled between both parties, meaning they want their opponents gone. As much as I think borders are nonsensical, it serves certain purpose given how territorial and violent humans are.
Would Israel accept 700k settlers in Israel or will Israel allow the millions Palestinians to be moved to a new Palestinian state that is weak economically?
If both sides actually act in good faith? Why not? How else have other countries that share borders with enclaves and exclaves coexisted? People act like there are no precedence; as if we are inventing a new way to move objects from one place to another, as if the wheel hasn’t been invented yet and figuring out how to do so.
Now do you condemn 77 years of oppression conducted by Israel against Palestinians including the kidnapping and systematic rapes in israeli jail and during the nekba?
Yes, that’s why two-state solution is important. That was already mandated by the UN for 77 years but neither parties and their benefactors don’t want to follow.
But how do you think Palestinians and Israel would be convinced to do that? What people miss is the inconvenient truth that majority of Palestinians and Israelis want the other gone. Israelis voted for Likud, and majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas; both parties are ultranationalist parties.
You are using the same excuse used in south Africa. Many used to say that black south Africa would avenge themselves by attacking white people.
If you don’t believe that one day Palestinians and Israelis can forget about their hate toward each other then a one state or two state solution make zero difference because Palestine and Israel are neighbors
Palestinians support dropping arms once occupation end. Even if you don’t believe them Israel can easily reoccupy. Even if Hamas refuse to drop arms a Palestinian state with it’s own army will be charged to stop Hamas. The PA is already doing that. But those scummy western countries and Arab traitors are still supporting Israel and think it can fool us into believing they support a two state
If both sides actually act in good faith? Why not?
A new Palestinian state simply can’t absorb an additional two millions people and would be both side ethnic cleansing. You want instead of a democratic one state two ethenostates?
that’s why two-state solution is important. That was already mandated by the UN for 77 years but neither parties and their benefactors don’t want to follow.
Palestine want peace they just reject deals that doesn’t give them all the right that international law gave them. They should get all the recognized Palestinian land by the international community and a right to an army to defend itself . Israel leadership since it’s creation doesn’t want peace because they are the super military power ruled by a supremacist ideology that believe the whole land belong to them
You still didn’t answer the question how a two state solution would be made when part of Israel is between the west bank and gaza?
You are using the same excuse used in south Africa. Many used to say that black south Africa would avenge themselves by attacking white people.
Not sure what you mean.
In any case, did you even look at the survey from both Palestinian and Israeli side that they want the other gone? How can you expect Palestinians and Israelis to agree to a one-state? Or even a two-state solution?
You are comparing South Africa with Palestine/Israel as if both have completely the same context and scenario. South Africans of all race have a shared culture and history that still made them feel have a sense of kinship. They still call themselves South Africans. What do Israelis and Palestinians call themselves? Fact of the matter is that both Palestinians and Israelis don’t feel close affinity towards each other to form one country. If they do unite one day, there has to be mutual feeling.
You still didn’t answer the question how a two state solution would be made when part of Israel is between the west bank and gaza?
Then you probably haven’t heard of exclaves and enclaves before.
Many people used to say black people in south Africa would avenge all the year of oppression if apartheid end.
It is really antisemitic to say that the both sematic people will never like each other . There is already 2 millions Palestinians in Israel you don’t see them trying to kill Jewish Israelis in Israel.
The reason it’s different in Gaza and the west bank is that they been occupied since 67 and the reason many normal Israeli civilians say the opposite is because of the rocket. So if you remove the source of the problem the occupation and with a real truth and reconciliation process the hate will slowly vanish
South Africans of all race have a shared culture and history
Not really the Afrikaners and black south African has very different culture . Hell ,even without the black south African the different ethnic groups has different culture.
Israel and white south Africans are the oppressor. Palestinians and the black south Africans was the oppressed so yes it is valid to compare both situation. Old oppressors and old oppressed can reconcile
Then you probably haven’t heard of exclaves and enclaves before
Just explain how the state will be done instead of generic BS
If you condemn the October 7 attack, you are accused of being Zionist and supporting the genocide on Palestinians.
I haven’t seen this. Most honest anti-Zionists I’ve seen online have been very clear in their denunciation of Oct 7.
It’s more like, “if you don’t constantly bring up the horrible attack from several years ago and make sure everyone knows you condemn it, then that means you’re anti-Semitic.”
I have absolutely encountered this online and offline, a lot of people understand the attack as being justified by the oppressive conditions the Gaza strip was kept in. Personally I think it’s possible for two opposing things to both be bad/wrong.
Yup, in the eyes of those who support the October 7 attack, taking hostage of and killing foreign civilians–who have no dog in the race-- is completely justified. There are freedom fighters throughout history who consciously avoid killing foreigners and civilians, so it’s not like there is no precedence for Hamas not to follow.
I look forward to being called an Anti Semite, being a Jew who’s been to Israel twice, and watched my sister get Bat Mitzvah’d on a synagogue roof near the Wailing Wall, and was active in my temple youth group until I graduated High School.
What the hell kind of apples and oranges headline is that. Israel is a country. Hamas is a political party, not the same as Palestine or Palestinians.
I’d go with terrorist state personally.
It is sad that nuance is lost in this conflict. If you condemn Israeli action on Palestinians, you are accused as anti-Semite. If you condemn the October 7 attack, you are accused of being Zionist and supporting the genocide on Palestinians.
There isn’t ironic bothside-ism on this. Literally both sides are actually at fault. Majority of Israelis back driving the Palestinians out of West Bank and Gaza, and majority of Palestinians want Israel as a country to be destroyed. If anyone have watched or read Attack on Titan TV series or manga, this is a major theme in the story of intergenerational conflict. Two state solution is the only way for the conflict to end, and it isn’t like there was no precedence to lay down arms and live in coexistence (see how the conflict in Northern Ireland ended when both opposing sides agreed that enough is enough). But there is too much bad blood between Israelis and Palestinians to call quits any time soon.
Palestine just want to end occupation. Stop with equating the oppressed with the oppressor
Yes, everyone wants the occupation to end. So do you support the two-state solution and condemn the October 7 that killed foreign hostages who have no stake on the conflict?
False . Israel never wanted the end of occupation since the beginning. The west don’t want either otherwise they would have sanctioned Israel since 67
I support one state solution because i truly believe that it is possible for Israelis and Palestinians to live together in one democratic state.
Can you tell me exactly how is it possible to make a two state solution when Israel separate the west bank and Gaza? Would Israel accept 700k settlers in Israel or will Israel allow the millions Palestinians to be moved to a new Palestinian state that is weak economically?
Yes, i condemn Hamas killing innocent civilians and take some hostages during the 7 of October. Now do you condemn 77 years of oppression conducted by Israel against Palestinians including the kidnapping and systematic rapes in israeli jail and during the nekba?
That’s actually even better. But how do you think Palestinians and Israel would be convinced to do that? What people miss is the inconvenient truth that majority of Palestinians and Israelis want the other gone. Israelis voted for Likud, and majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas; both parties are ultranationalist parties. The slogan “from river to the sea” is being wrestled between both parties, meaning they want their opponents gone. As much as I think borders are nonsensical, it serves certain purpose given how territorial and violent humans are.
If both sides actually act in good faith? Why not? How else have other countries that share borders with enclaves and exclaves coexisted? People act like there are no precedence; as if we are inventing a new way to move objects from one place to another, as if the wheel hasn’t been invented yet and figuring out how to do so.
Yes, that’s why two-state solution is important. That was already mandated by the UN for 77 years but neither parties and their benefactors don’t want to follow.
You are using the same excuse used in south Africa. Many used to say that black south Africa would avenge themselves by attacking white people.
If you don’t believe that one day Palestinians and Israelis can forget about their hate toward each other then a one state or two state solution make zero difference because Palestine and Israel are neighbors
Palestinians support dropping arms once occupation end. Even if you don’t believe them Israel can easily reoccupy. Even if Hamas refuse to drop arms a Palestinian state with it’s own army will be charged to stop Hamas. The PA is already doing that. But those scummy western countries and Arab traitors are still supporting Israel and think it can fool us into believing they support a two state
A new Palestinian state simply can’t absorb an additional two millions people and would be both side ethnic cleansing. You want instead of a democratic one state two ethenostates?
Palestine want peace they just reject deals that doesn’t give them all the right that international law gave them. They should get all the recognized Palestinian land by the international community and a right to an army to defend itself . Israel leadership since it’s creation doesn’t want peace because they are the super military power ruled by a supremacist ideology that believe the whole land belong to them
You still didn’t answer the question how a two state solution would be made when part of Israel is between the west bank and gaza?
Not sure what you mean.
In any case, did you even look at the survey from both Palestinian and Israeli side that they want the other gone? How can you expect Palestinians and Israelis to agree to a one-state? Or even a two-state solution?
You are comparing South Africa with Palestine/Israel as if both have completely the same context and scenario. South Africans of all race have a shared culture and history that still made them feel have a sense of kinship. They still call themselves South Africans. What do Israelis and Palestinians call themselves? Fact of the matter is that both Palestinians and Israelis don’t feel close affinity towards each other to form one country. If they do unite one day, there has to be mutual feeling.
Then you probably haven’t heard of exclaves and enclaves before.
Many people used to say black people in south Africa would avenge all the year of oppression if apartheid end.
It is really antisemitic to say that the both sematic people will never like each other . There is already 2 millions Palestinians in Israel you don’t see them trying to kill Jewish Israelis in Israel.
The reason it’s different in Gaza and the west bank is that they been occupied since 67 and the reason many normal Israeli civilians say the opposite is because of the rocket. So if you remove the source of the problem the occupation and with a real truth and reconciliation process the hate will slowly vanish
Not really the Afrikaners and black south African has very different culture . Hell ,even without the black south African the different ethnic groups has different culture. Israel and white south Africans are the oppressor. Palestinians and the black south Africans was the oppressed so yes it is valid to compare both situation. Old oppressors and old oppressed can reconcile
Just explain how the state will be done instead of generic BS
I haven’t seen this. Most honest anti-Zionists I’ve seen online have been very clear in their denunciation of Oct 7.
It’s more like, “if you don’t constantly bring up the horrible attack from several years ago and make sure everyone knows you condemn it, then that means you’re anti-Semitic.”
It maybe depends on which social media you are in. I do see tankies in Lemmy shy away from condemning October 7 attack.
I have absolutely encountered this online and offline, a lot of people understand the attack as being justified by the oppressive conditions the Gaza strip was kept in. Personally I think it’s possible for two opposing things to both be bad/wrong.
Yup, in the eyes of those who support the October 7 attack, taking hostage of and killing foreign civilians–who have no dog in the race-- is completely justified. There are freedom fighters throughout history who consciously avoid killing foreigners and civilians, so it’s not like there is no precedence for Hamas not to follow.
I look forward to being called an Anti Semite, being a Jew who’s been to Israel twice, and watched my sister get Bat Mitzvah’d on a synagogue roof near the Wailing Wall, and was active in my temple youth group until I graduated High School.