The drama and accusations the GrapheneOS developers are spewing and engaging in are giving me a bad taste in the mouth and make me doubt the OS’s reliability am I the only one?
The main reason why I decided not to use it, despite it being an obvious choice. But I’m also that kind of old dude that is not very receptive to drama… this may explain ;)
Two things can simultaneously be true, Daniel can be an individual who engages in very problematic behaviours and GrapheneOS can still be the most-secure and reliable OS out there.
Basically this. The project head might be a bit too paranoid, bellicose and problematic, but at this time a phone with GrapheneOS seems to be by far the safest way to have a smartphone, and the project head’s personality might be a part on this as their stated objective is to be able to resist state-level actors, you likely need someone who’s more than a bit “out there” to have the right mind for this
In my opinion both the evident ego of of the project lead as well as his naivety (tethering the project to Google) are huge red flags despite any assumed technical superiority.
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You’re not the only one. It’s one of my biggest reasons for staying away from it
I don’t care about the community, I just care about the experience of using it.
GrapheneOS has always had a massive PR problem and crazy leadership unfortunately.
Not as bad a taste as the French government is giving me.
If its do I trust GOS or a confirmed pro chat control governments side of the story, its an easy choice.
While I do find GOS drama a bit annoying, they aren’t wrong about the lacking security of many AOSP forks. iode and /e/OS have a history late patches for security vulnerabilities in both the OS (https://web.archive.org/web/20241231003546/https://divestos.org/pages/patch_history) and for the forked apps they bundle with it. Each Android monthly and Chromium patches usually contains dozens High Risk CVEs, so taking a month or 2 is unacceptable. Neither are good for privacy or security.
See a comparison between some Android ROMs here, especially noting the update speed section: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
I would prefer my privacy software to be developed by people like this, rather than people who are calm and flexible
Its all fine until their approach of privacy or security differs with what’s best for the project, then there’s no reasoning with them to fix it because they’re not calm and flexible. Then ya gotta fork it and get everyone to transition to the new fork, and get developers back onboard, etc.
A crazy, but pointed example of something like this could be: the dude could just claim grapheneos going forward will not have networking anymore because thats an attack vector, and at that point the project doesn’t even suite anyone’s needs to be used as a smartphone anymore. How are you gonna reason with someone like this that, while keeping networking in the project is an attack vector, its necessary to be able to use the project for it’s intended use case? You probably aren’t
The guy being paranoid asshole is passable, what I thought a really shit move is calling the community to create alt accs to harass people from other projects and saying he will ban anyone that complains. The Rossmann video is quite shocking, you see the dev’s complete disassociation with reality… yeah the code is open, but how many people outside the project are really auditing it? Even people inside the project, are they auditing each others’ work? If the guy doesn’t get treatment, how long until he decides his own userbase is after him?
admittedly i’m not up to date on all the drama, but i thought that graphene saw themselves as victims of alt attacks?
So yeah, it seems like he accuses everyone of persecuting and harassing him, but in those videos there are several examples of what he considers persecuting and harassing. Both channels were highly supportive of the project and actively promoted it, but because they would also promote other projects and do benchmark tests, they were “spreading misinformation”, “being biased”, “campaigning against him” and so on. And in the second video he accused the guy of campaigning against him just for saying “This is informative, and unfortunate” about the first video lol. So him being a “victim” is just his lack of proper medication, because anyone who asked him about such attacks, if he had prints or so, was also accused of attacking him lol
https://youtu.be/Dx7CZ-2Bajg
https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0Undoubtly GrapheneOS is the best project out there, so yeah, this is unfortunate.
OR, France is an evil, genocidal, ethnostate full of pedophiles, so we should maybe apply our Israel-tinted glasses and presume France to be the villain until we have concrete proof otherwise rather than blaming the victim.
Guys an asshole and has always been one.
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None of the content above has anything to do with France - but he did take the opportunity to claim two other projects based on France are persecuting him as well, so he kinda has a pattern. As I commented to some other user in the other post, it’s The Boy Who Cried Wolf problem - those two videos are full of documentation of his modus operandi.
He is literally claiming that the French police and state are behind this campaign against Graphene, and I believe him knowing how the French are, but believe what you want…
Sure sure first it was the CalyxOS guys, then youtubers and now the French Government. Lets say it is true I don’t believe him cause he’s a crazy asshole.
Again, those videos aren’t about this French stuff, but about him claiming every other Android project is after him and that everyone who asks too much about his project is after him. The first video is from 2021 and the other from 2023. No relation to him claiming the French government is after him now.
I’ve accepted for a while that the lead developer is extremely paranoid and could probably genuinely do with healthcare intervention. Like in much open source development I think it isn’t helped by overwork and burnout, so I hope that at some point Graphene gets a better governance structure which spreads responsibility and which hopefully will limit the incessant drama that only harms the project. I don’t see him being willing to give up his grip, but I can always hope.
I’ll continue to use Graphene unless things go entirely off the rails though, as it is a great OS and I don’t really think there are many great alternatives.
Who benefits?
Who benefits from sowing a narrative around “drama”, “accusation”, and/or “paranoia”. Seriously.
I think given the following circumspect; GrapheneOS’s reaction, to move project pieces out of potential hostile environments/jurisdiction, is perfectly reasonable.
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France’s Support for EU “Chat Control”, scanning proposals. France has been one of the governments most supportive of EU‑level proposals that would require scanning of communications and devices for illegal content.
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The general French framing and approach to cybercrime. As in other EU countries, French authorities are pushing for: Expanded powers to compel cooperation from service providers, and developers. Strong rhetoric against tools that are seen as systematically obstructing investigations.
Man, I am so totally with you, but the problem - and it’s ridiculous to say it’s not a problem - is the guy running GrapheneOS is apparently a socially backward drama whore. Louis Rossman is an amazing advocate, I don’t even pay that much attention to shit and I know him as one of my favorite people on YouTube because of his advocacy for right to repair. And this guy just pisses all over his face for the most minor perceived infraction. I have no problem imagining that something like GrapheneOS would face intense harassment from the state, but when you act like this dude does you completely lose all credibility. Everybody is just left wondering if maybe, just maybe, this is just your weird ass making shit up.
The main GrapheneOS dev creates beef with a bunch of other projects. It’s not some shadowy organisation, it’s him having stupid takes in GitHub issues and spreading false claims about other projects.
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Such drama has been going on for years. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
It mainly makes me pine for linux phones. I think Graphene is the best we have at the moment in the mobile space, but that’s far more of a testament to our lack of options than how valuable Graphene is. I have no doubts that we’ll eventually kick Graphene to the curb when it stops being useful, so I’m not overly concerned with its future. Worst-case, I think many of us would be just fine on any other AOSP rom for a few extra years until linux phones can come save us all.
pine for linux phones
I see what you did there.
I could be wrong, but I think Linux would be horrible for the kind of security you’d want in a smartphone. At least that’s what I read from the GrapheneOS folks…
Depends on what your threat model is. Sure a fully locked down mobile OS is more secure, but I also care about freedom and privacy. It’s not all black and white.
As far as I’m aware this is true (same with a lot of desktop linux distros), but I’m more interested in freeing myself from Android at the moment. I’m sure we can get there eventually w/r/t security, but it takes time, and we’ll never get there if we don’t start moving.
Unless there’s drama in my updates I don’t particularly care too much about drama.
The drama can be so minor too
“How can he run our department when his favorite color is INDIGO!? I can’t BELIEVE that guy!”
