That happened a while ago though. He was given the chance to drive the impossible second seat and failed like everyone else. I hope the same doesn’t happen to Hadjar!
The announcement happend years ago but the contractual relationship is still ongoing until the end of this year.
He was given the chance to drive the impossible second seat and failed like everyone else.
Realistically he would have needed to do an absolutely outstanding job for Red Bull to not fire him. He’s only in that seat because Honda is paying for it. Same with reserve driver Iwasa.
Red bull is not interested in any Honda agents in their factory after Honda decided that they like being paid by Aston Martin more.
Red bull is not interested in any Honda agents in their factory after Honda decided that they like being paid by Aston Martin more
This is unfair to Honda. When they changed their mind and decided to stick around in F1, they approached red bull again to partner them for the 2026 regulations. By that time, red bull had already established RBPT and spent a considerable amount of money to buy and set up facilities and poach talent from others. They told Honda that the only way a new partnership would work is if RBPT developed part of the engine and Honda part of the engine. Honda wanted full control over the design and development of the engine so a deal was not reached.
Only after not being able to get back with red bull did Honda go behind Aston and their money.
They left Red Bull because they didn’t want to fund a works engine program. Then their actions forced Red Bull to set up RBPT and because Honda wasn’t interested in shared development, they went away and took Stoll’s money instead.
Aha, didn’t know they still had a contract, thanks!
I wouldn’t have thought that Red Bull would care that much about Honda’s money though, they’ve got infinite money themselves. They seem perfectly happy to burn through as many drivers as they can to find a reliable number two, I think if Tsunoda had done a passable job then that could have been enough, even if only to give Hadjar another season at RB.
I see it without the Honda more often than with, I thought that Red Bull bought the whole operation and Honda haven’t really been involved at all for the last few years?
Then you didn’t look properly. The Honda logo is quite big:
I thought that Red Bull bought the whole operation and Honda haven’t really been involved at all for the last few years?
No, wrong. Never been the case. Honda builds the engines and owns all intellectual properties. UK facilities (where the hybrid unit was at least partially developed) were about to be closed by Honda and Red Bull took it over. That’s it and that’s why Lawrence Stroll could throw money at Honda to convince them to return.
I’ve had a read and it seems it was the case a bit but then changed again:
On 2 October 2022, Honda announced an agreement for the “re-strengthening” of their partnership with Red Bull Racing and will maintain total oversight of the engines until 2025. Honda’s logo will also reappear on Red Bull Racing’s and AlphaTauri’s car from the 2022 Japanese Grand Prix onwards.
That was basically a branding deal after the idiots at Honda acted only as fully paid contractor. That’s why the 2022 engine was called Red Bull RBPTH001 and the only reference to Honda is the H in the model number.
So, Renault used to provide engines for RB, then they switched to Honda. After a couple of years (I think), Honda announced they were walking away and, IIRC, RB was scrambling to build their own factory and were going to make their own engines, with Black Jack and a hookers!
That year, RB took off and won the first DC for Max as well as Constructors so Honda suddenly announced an about face and came back to work with RB as a partner
That first “almost walk away” from Honda is what I was referring to… but maybe I got those details wrong?
Honda announced they were walking away and, IIRC, RB was scrambling to build their own factory and were going to make their own engines, with Black Jack and a hookers!
And that’s their 2026 engine, partially paid for by Ford who are allowed to stick their blue oval on it in a branding deal – the marketing blah blah is that it’s co-developed by Ford and RB but that completely false. Red Bull set up Red Bull Powertrains, bought Honda’s UK hybrid unit development center with all personnel and poached mostly from Mercedes way before Ford was in the picture. RB, Ford, F1TV, and Sky F1 will repeat this lie constantly but the fact is that for the upcoming Ford Hypercar in World Endurance Championship Ford needs Red Bull’s help and not the other way around which is why that hypercar is being developed in the UK with the help of Red Bull Advanced Technologies and Red Bull Powertrains (Ford cannot build anything more powerful that the Ford Mustang GT3 and even that needed lots of help from Multimatic).
A few years ago Red Bull successfully lobbied for an engine freeze. That’s why Honda could assemble a bunch of new engines without any need to develop it further.
Honda announced they were walking away, but they never did. Since these things take time, and of course the Honda people who were working with Red Bull directly did not actually want to end that project. So yes, like you say they were intending to walk away but never did. They are still the ones making the engines for Red Bull & Racing Bulls until the end of the year. Even if the sticker says “Red Bull Powertrains”.
And since that is the case, any idea that Yukis seat is tied to Honda would only come into play now and not while they were still working together
He’s a paid Honda driver and Honda decided to sever ties to Red Bull.
That happened a while ago though. He was given the chance to drive the impossible second seat and failed like everyone else. I hope the same doesn’t happen to Hadjar!
The announcement happend years ago but the contractual relationship is still ongoing until the end of this year.
Realistically he would have needed to do an absolutely outstanding job for Red Bull to not fire him. He’s only in that seat because Honda is paying for it. Same with reserve driver Iwasa.
Red bull is not interested in any Honda agents in their factory after Honda decided that they like being paid by Aston Martin more.
This is unfair to Honda. When they changed their mind and decided to stick around in F1, they approached red bull again to partner them for the 2026 regulations. By that time, red bull had already established RBPT and spent a considerable amount of money to buy and set up facilities and poach talent from others. They told Honda that the only way a new partnership would work is if RBPT developed part of the engine and Honda part of the engine. Honda wanted full control over the design and development of the engine so a deal was not reached.
Only after not being able to get back with red bull did Honda go behind Aston and their money.
And how was my comment unfair to Honda when they were the ones who declined the RB deal?
The way you phrased it made it seem like Honda left red bull for monetary reasons when actually it was for technical details
They left Red Bull because they didn’t want to fund a works engine program. Then their actions forced Red Bull to set up RBPT and because Honda wasn’t interested in shared development, they went away and took Stoll’s money instead.
Aha, didn’t know they still had a contract, thanks!
I wouldn’t have thought that Red Bull would care that much about Honda’s money though, they’ve got infinite money themselves. They seem perfectly happy to burn through as many drivers as they can to find a reliable number two, I think if Tsunoda had done a passable job then that could have been enough, even if only to give Hadjar another season at RB.
Who did you think provides their 2025 engines?
I see it without the Honda more often than with, I thought that Red Bull bought the whole operation and Honda haven’t really been involved at all for the last few years?
Then you didn’t look properly. The Honda logo is quite big:
No, wrong. Never been the case. Honda builds the engines and owns all intellectual properties. UK facilities (where the hybrid unit was at least partially developed) were about to be closed by Honda and Red Bull took it over. That’s it and that’s why Lawrence Stroll could throw money at Honda to convince them to return.
I’ve had a read and it seems it was the case a bit but then changed again:
That was basically a branding deal after the idiots at Honda acted only as fully paid contractor. That’s why the 2022 engine was called Red Bull RBPTH001 and the only reference to Honda is the H in the model number.
The Honda-Red Bull cooperation ends December 31st 2025.
Again?
This is a joke, right?
No, not a joke (but maybe a misunderstanding?)
So, Renault used to provide engines for RB, then they switched to Honda. After a couple of years (I think), Honda announced they were walking away and, IIRC, RB was scrambling to build their own factory and were going to make their own engines, with Black Jack and a hookers!
That year, RB took off and won the first DC for Max as well as Constructors so Honda suddenly announced an about face and came back to work with RB as a partner
That first “almost walk away” from Honda is what I was referring to… but maybe I got those details wrong?
In any case, what is RB going to do for 2026?
And that’s their 2026 engine, partially paid for by Ford who are allowed to stick their blue oval on it in a branding deal – the marketing blah blah is that it’s co-developed by Ford and RB but that completely false. Red Bull set up Red Bull Powertrains, bought Honda’s UK hybrid unit development center with all personnel and poached mostly from Mercedes way before Ford was in the picture. RB, Ford, F1TV, and Sky F1 will repeat this lie constantly but the fact is that for the upcoming Ford Hypercar in World Endurance Championship Ford needs Red Bull’s help and not the other way around which is why that hypercar is being developed in the UK with the help of Red Bull Advanced Technologies and Red Bull Powertrains (Ford cannot build anything more powerful that the Ford Mustang GT3 and even that needed lots of help from Multimatic).
A few years ago Red Bull successfully lobbied for an engine freeze. That’s why Honda could assemble a bunch of new engines without any need to develop it further.
very cool story, thanks for taking the time to share it
Honda announced they were walking away, but they never did. Since these things take time, and of course the Honda people who were working with Red Bull directly did not actually want to end that project. So yes, like you say they were intending to walk away but never did. They are still the ones making the engines for Red Bull & Racing Bulls until the end of the year. Even if the sticker says “Red Bull Powertrains”.
And since that is the case, any idea that Yukis seat is tied to Honda would only come into play now and not while they were still working together
I see, thanks for the additional detail
Well, engine development was shut down for quite some time. The Sakura crew was reassigned to different areas within Honda, so these people were still available but the UK crew was transferred to Red Bull. A new UK base was only reopened in 2024: https://honda.racing/post/honda-racing-corporation-hrc-establishes-a-new-formula-one-base-in-the-uk
The majority of the 2026 Honda engine for Aston Martin is developed by Honda/HRC in Japan and HRC USA (formerly HPD, Honda Performance Development): https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-racing/releases/release-63b0bd89adfbb0b817837ec2c5000f6e-honda-racing-corporation-usa-launches (no idea about the workload share since HRC UK has reopened)
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