The Honda fit is the best urban car I’ve ever driven. Street parking? No problem. I can fit a bike in the back or put my rack on for two. It seats 5 just like an suv. Great milage. Sure I wish it was electric and had android auto but otherwise it’s amazing. Hell it handled a drive across the country stuffed completely full with stuff we didn’t want to risk in a shipping box
Cars from the late 80s and early 90s are still fine today if produced;
Unfortunately they can not even be bought used because they’ve all rusted through (Japanese ones anyway, others are hit and miss)
relatively safe
Citation needed, they’re usually missing most of the new safety features, that’s why they can be so small and light
good fuel economy
Maybe if you’re in the US where diesels are the devil and everything has to be a truck. Modern cars have better fuel economy at even twice the weight. You can get similar or better highway fuel economy out of a 2.5 tonne Audi SQ7 tdi compared to a small 1 tonne 90s Honda Civic. Diesel of course helps a lot in that regard. But if a huge ass performance SUV gets similar mileage compared to a 90s ecobox, imagine what a normally sized modern car can do.
air-conditioning
Was by no means standard on those, at least in Europe. Be lucky to have heated seats in a 90s Japanese ecobox, AC was nearly unheard of, and wasn’t standard even in the 00s.
That’s not even getting into emissions, which are the reason you don’t get these cheap and simple 80s and 90s engines anymore. Now you need EGR to manage NOx, catalytic converters to manage CO2 and if it’s a brand new car, even petrol engines need to have particulate filters.
Do any of these even have proper heating? Or like how do you demist the windshield between September and April when it’s too cold to drive an open vehicle and too humid to not have heating and ideally AC to reduce humidity in the car?
The Honda Civic has had the same fuel economy now since the late 80s https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic at 30mpg
The VTEC engine has been computer powered for the same time, and has used a Catalytic converter that whole time. Only now, with an electric motor for first gear, do we see any mpg improvement.
The main safety feature, is that they gotten heavier.
The Japanese haven’t actually advanced much in the automotive industry in recent decades, so I’m not surprised there.
And yes, extra airbags, bigger crumple zones and noise insulation add weight and since.
My 2019 C class did about 60 mpg extraurban and it’s significantly bigger. 30 sounds about right for urban. Cars have gotten better. Hondas? Ehh.
Even my diesels have started heating up the windshield in 5 minutes at most. You let it idle for 2 or 3 while removing the snow anyway. Or use webasto. Petrol engines of any real size heat up quicker so they don’t usually need such things.
The only real breakthrough has been hybrid, for mpg and efficiency. I suspect internal combustion engines will be around for some time, but almost all cars will move to hybrid (hopefully plug in hybrid).
Cars heat up quickly now because, aside from the heat from the car engine, many have small electric heaters to overcome the first few minutes of cool air in the cabin and on the windshield. But all this tech comes at an expense to cost, simplicity, and repair-ability.
N. America really needs more public transit. Better trains between cities. Legislating pick-up trucks so they are safer to pedestrians. Allowing smaller companies to manufacturer cars, to break up the monopolies.
Direct injection becoming commonplace has done a lot too, espegially with piezoelectric injectors that can do multiple injection events per combustion cycle for diesel. Modern transmissions have more speeds, quicker shifts and less efficiency loss with fewer moving parts.
Hybrid in comparison doesn’t do much for mpg unless it’s plugin hybrid which of course can be a true game changer.
Resistive heaters aren’t particularly fancy or expensive tech, but that’s irrelevant, 90s cars also heat up fast (since the engine thermal efficiency is usually worse), I’m more interested in the UTV comparison here since you literally can’t drive without heat here half the year.
Agreed on the transit. But is there any real need for new car manufacturers? It’s very expensive to get started with a new one.
There’s exactly one thing America needs to get smaller and cheaper cars. Proper taxation on fuel. Right now there’s no incentive to sell cheap small cars if everyone wants a brodozer and crossovers are seen as tiny.
Modern cars run wider tires and have better brakes, also ESP works some serious magic. Stopping distance is actually better than it used to be for most vehicles. Also suspension setups are more advanced, meaning tires are actually touching ground more of the time. This makes cornering better.
Then add airbags (not really a thing in a lot of late 80s and early 90s cars), real crumple zones, etc.
Barring stupid ass American trucks with zero visibility, vehicles have gotten safer over time. It’s slowed down now, but still getting slightly better with driver assistance features, like blind spot detection, etc.
In urban environments an old 1980s car is fine, you can’t really get into a high speed collision in a city.
Highway driving is statistically safer, so you can get away with a 1980s car on a highway.
Rural driving is o.k.-ish, if you are away of your surroundings on a rural road.
It’s the sub-urban, specifically, the ex-urban environment in N.America that posses the most problems for driving an older 1980s car with limited safety features. People really speed on the wide, 6 to 8 lane, suburban streets.
Highway driving is actually where things like ESP and airbags matter most IMO. ESP can save your ass on unexpected black ice in a curve and airbags can save your ass when some oncoming assface decides to fall asleep and drift into your lane. Most highways in my country are not separated, so that’s pretty dangerous.
Cars from the late 80s and early 90s are still fine today if produced; relatively safe, good fuel economy, air-conditioning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_(fourth_generation)
Heck, 4/5 people would be happy with a side by side ATV as a form of transportation in urban/suburban areas. https://www.utvdriver.com/utv-news/cheapest-utility-side-by-sides/
A golf cart is suitable for at least 50% of people currently driving in cities, as the majority of small cars are just grocery getters. https://www.utvdriver.com/utv-news/cheapest-utility-side-by-sides/
Something is fundamentally wrong with the transportation; size, power, cost of cars.
A signficant portion of Florida uses Golf carts in closed communities.
The Honda fit is the best urban car I’ve ever driven. Street parking? No problem. I can fit a bike in the back or put my rack on for two. It seats 5 just like an suv. Great milage. Sure I wish it was electric and had android auto but otherwise it’s amazing. Hell it handled a drive across the country stuffed completely full with stuff we didn’t want to risk in a shipping box
Unfortunately they can not even be bought used because they’ve all rusted through (Japanese ones anyway, others are hit and miss)
Citation needed, they’re usually missing most of the new safety features, that’s why they can be so small and light
Maybe if you’re in the US where diesels are the devil and everything has to be a truck. Modern cars have better fuel economy at even twice the weight. You can get similar or better highway fuel economy out of a 2.5 tonne Audi SQ7 tdi compared to a small 1 tonne 90s Honda Civic. Diesel of course helps a lot in that regard. But if a huge ass performance SUV gets similar mileage compared to a 90s ecobox, imagine what a normally sized modern car can do.
Was by no means standard on those, at least in Europe. Be lucky to have heated seats in a 90s Japanese ecobox, AC was nearly unheard of, and wasn’t standard even in the 00s.
That’s not even getting into emissions, which are the reason you don’t get these cheap and simple 80s and 90s engines anymore. Now you need EGR to manage NOx, catalytic converters to manage CO2 and if it’s a brand new car, even petrol engines need to have particulate filters.
Do any of these even have proper heating? Or like how do you demist the windshield between September and April when it’s too cold to drive an open vehicle and too humid to not have heating and ideally AC to reduce humidity in the car?
They just look like nice summer toys.
The Honda Civic has had the same fuel economy now since the late 80s https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic at 30mpg The VTEC engine has been computer powered for the same time, and has used a Catalytic converter that whole time. Only now, with an electric motor for first gear, do we see any mpg improvement.
The main safety feature, is that they gotten heavier.
15-minute duration, covering approximately 9.3 miles at an average speed of 18.6 mph" https://en.phongnhaexplorer.com/qna/travel/what-is-the-average-distance-of-a-car-trip.html#gsc.tab=0 Most cars don’t even heat up in that time, an ATV or golf cart would be fine.
The Japanese haven’t actually advanced much in the automotive industry in recent decades, so I’m not surprised there.
And yes, extra airbags, bigger crumple zones and noise insulation add weight and since.
My 2019 C class did about 60 mpg extraurban and it’s significantly bigger. 30 sounds about right for urban. Cars have gotten better. Hondas? Ehh.
Even my diesels have started heating up the windshield in 5 minutes at most. You let it idle for 2 or 3 while removing the snow anyway. Or use webasto. Petrol engines of any real size heat up quicker so they don’t usually need such things.
The only real breakthrough has been hybrid, for mpg and efficiency. I suspect internal combustion engines will be around for some time, but almost all cars will move to hybrid (hopefully plug in hybrid).
Cars heat up quickly now because, aside from the heat from the car engine, many have small electric heaters to overcome the first few minutes of cool air in the cabin and on the windshield. But all this tech comes at an expense to cost, simplicity, and repair-ability.
N. America really needs more public transit. Better trains between cities. Legislating pick-up trucks so they are safer to pedestrians. Allowing smaller companies to manufacturer cars, to break up the monopolies.
Direct injection becoming commonplace has done a lot too, espegially with piezoelectric injectors that can do multiple injection events per combustion cycle for diesel. Modern transmissions have more speeds, quicker shifts and less efficiency loss with fewer moving parts.
Hybrid in comparison doesn’t do much for mpg unless it’s plugin hybrid which of course can be a true game changer.
Resistive heaters aren’t particularly fancy or expensive tech, but that’s irrelevant, 90s cars also heat up fast (since the engine thermal efficiency is usually worse), I’m more interested in the UTV comparison here since you literally can’t drive without heat here half the year.
Agreed on the transit. But is there any real need for new car manufacturers? It’s very expensive to get started with a new one.
There’s exactly one thing America needs to get smaller and cheaper cars. Proper taxation on fuel. Right now there’s no incentive to sell cheap small cars if everyone wants a brodozer and crossovers are seen as tiny.
Physics. Force = mass X acceleration. Heavier vehicles are harder to turn, harder to stop.
Modern cars run wider tires and have better brakes, also ESP works some serious magic. Stopping distance is actually better than it used to be for most vehicles. Also suspension setups are more advanced, meaning tires are actually touching ground more of the time. This makes cornering better.
Then add airbags (not really a thing in a lot of late 80s and early 90s cars), real crumple zones, etc.
Barring stupid ass American trucks with zero visibility, vehicles have gotten safer over time. It’s slowed down now, but still getting slightly better with driver assistance features, like blind spot detection, etc.
In urban environments an old 1980s car is fine, you can’t really get into a high speed collision in a city.
Highway driving is statistically safer, so you can get away with a 1980s car on a highway.
Rural driving is o.k.-ish, if you are away of your surroundings on a rural road.
It’s the sub-urban, specifically, the ex-urban environment in N.America that posses the most problems for driving an older 1980s car with limited safety features. People really speed on the wide, 6 to 8 lane, suburban streets.
Highway driving is actually where things like ESP and airbags matter most IMO. ESP can save your ass on unexpected black ice in a curve and airbags can save your ass when some oncoming assface decides to fall asleep and drift into your lane. Most highways in my country are not separated, so that’s pretty dangerous.