Green Party candidate Jill Stein is gaining ground among Muslim-American voters in three critical swing states: Michigan, Arizona, and Wisconsin, according to a recent poll by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).
Stein leads Vice President and Democrat candidate Kamala Harris in these states, with 40 per cent support in Michigan, 35 per cent in Arizona, and 44 per cent in Wisconsin. This surge in popularity appears tied to Steinās vocal criticism of US support for Israel during the ongoing genocide in Gaza.
Liberals downvoting this would rather plug their ears and cover their eyes instead of confronting their issues and calling on Kamala to sanction Israel.
Kamala isnāt president yet. You can call on her to sanction Israel as president, without also pushing another candidate.
Jill Steinās only practical role in this election is as a presidential spoiler benefitting Trump, and if Trump wins then Palestine is really truly fād anyway.
It also doesnāt help that a vote for Jill Stein is a vote for the disbandment of NATO and the disruption of Ukraine aid. Those are extreme positions that have nothing to do with Israel-Palestine, and many of those interested in voting for her are likely not even aware of those stances.
She has promised to always keep sending Israel bombs. She can promise to sanction Israel if she wants to regain votes she is shedding by promising to continue genocide.
Jill Steinās platform is a lot better than the Democrats, votes for her pull the DNC to the left. If Trump wins, he will indeed continue the genocide started under the Democrats, but so would Kamala.
Then tell people what she stands for. For what itās worth, disbanding NATO is the single greatest thing any American President could do for the Global South, taking a firm stand against Imperialism.
She has not promised to ākeep sending Israel bombsā. She has said that she would continue to arm Israel, but a) she would have to support Israel so far as Congress continues to apportion aid to Israel, and b) she has also repeatedly stated that she wants a 2-state solution and to enact a ceasefire.
I disagree with this. Youād think that voting for Jill Stein would pressure the DNC to go further left, but if Trump wins then it sends the message that the progressive left canāt be trusted to vote for them, so theyāll go back to appealing to moderates. So the gains created by giving Sanders/AOC-types more leverage in the party and nominating Tim Walz for VP (the most progressive pick out of everyone considered) would be lost.
I believe the assault on Palestine would be accelerated under Trump. You can call it lip service if you want, but at least Kamala has repeatedly called for a 2-state solution, meaning sheād continue to do the bare minimum reqād by Congress as far as supporting Israel would be concerned. Trump has never supported a 2-state solution, verbally or otherwise - the guy even moved the Israel embassy into Jerusalem, against the suggestion of virtually all his foreign aid experts. He has more interest in stoking this conflict than not.
I disagree very, very strongly. I donāt see how this ātakes a firm stance against imperialismā because Russia is 100% the aggressor of that conflict. They had no legitimate reason to cross into Ukraineās border and open fire, other than to further imperialistic ambition. The whole point of NATO is to discourage that ambition.
Ah yes, because it was Russia who were the ones who indiscriminately shelled Donetsk and Luhansk. Because it was Russia who violated Minsk II. Because it was Russia who couped Poroshenko to replace him with a shit comedian and a few thousand Banderites. You NAFOid fucking ghoul.
Lmao
Historically this isnāt the case. The DNC only throws the left a bone if they need to.
We arenāt talking about Russia and Ukraine, though NATO did provoke that. NATO itself is an offensive alliance that has plundered the Global South, period, without needing to reference Russia nor Ukraine. Ask anyone in the Global South what their opinion of NATO is.
> Lmao
Iām sorry, but āsaying that sheād continue to arm Israelā, which would literally be her job if Congress apportions funds for her to arm Israel, is not equivalent to āpromising to give Israel bombsā. The keyword āpromiseā, to me, suggests she would do anything her power to aid Israel, even if she doesnāt have to. Iāll accept any constructive criticism of this take, but not a strawmanning that strips away the context that itās literally the law to do what Congress says in this case.
> Historically this isnāt the case. The DNC only throws the left a bone if they need to.
Do you have any sources for this?
> We arenāt talking about Russia and Ukraine, though NATO did provoke that. NATO itself is an offensive alliance that has plundered the Global South, period, without needing to reference Russia nor Ukraine. Ask anyone in the Global South what their opinion of NATO is.
This segment of the discussion IS about Russia and Ukraine, because itās what I raised at the end of my first post.
In any case, do you have any sources for this? Because from my perspective, I donāt see how NATO provoked that conflict. It was Russia, not a NATO-membered country nor Ukraine, that crossed the Ukrainian border and opened fire on Ukrainian territory that started the war.
She has promised to always support Israel and aid it in its defense. Itās cut and dry, she will posture for a ceasefire while supporting genocide.
Sure. During FDRās campaign, coming off of the Great Depression, the Ruling Class feared a US October Revolution like what happened in the USSR, so the US became a Social Democracy for a time. Leftward movement comes from fear from the Ruling Class.
My point was not. My point was that pulling out of NATO is the single greatest act for the majority of Mankind that any US President could do. Youāre shifting it back to Russia.
Stoltenberg admitted it. āThe opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that. So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.ā
In other words, NATO expansionism and encirclement of Russia despite Russia warning against it caused it. NATO was formed by Anticommunists against the USSR, and retained its anti-Russia purpose even after the dissolution of the USSR. Had NATO not expanded against Russiaās wishes, Russia would not have invaded Ukraine.
Paying lip-service to the support of Israelās defense is not equivalent to personally supporting genocide. You could argue that itās practically the same thing if she ultimately continues to arm Israel and Israel continues to attack Gaza, but I donāt think the blame should be placed on her, it should be placed principally on Israel, next on a Congress that apportions funds for Israel.
My original claim was that if progressives split the vote, and the GOP wins as a result, thatāll shift the party right.
This isnāt a counter-example to that, IMO itās an example that the worse the economy is for the working class, the harder the working class swings politics left, which I would agree with. That said, the Great Depression was also a much worse economic period.
I think an example in favor of what Iām talking about is the 2000 election. Bush won Florida by less than 1000 votes, but 100k votes were cast for the socialist candidate, most of which wouldāve otherwise gone to Gore. The result was Bush not only winning in 2000, but again in 04. And in 08 we get someone who appealed moderates as much as he did to progressives.
Iām not shifting the entire conversation back to Russia, just this portion of it, because thatās where this portion started, and your point about dissolving NATO being an anti-imperalist move contradicts my take that removing the check against Russia is a pro-imperialist move. Also I donāt see how disbanding NATO would be āthe single great act for the majority of Mankind that any US President could doā, feel free to elaborate.
Russia could have simplyā¦not invaded Ukraine? NATO is just a defensive alliance, it getting bigger doesnāt put Russia in danger unless Russia has imperialistic tendencies.
You could argue that Russia feared that NATO getting bigger meant that the individual countries get bigger, meaning they may choose to attack Russia themselves with larger power. But Russia could use that as an excuse to shore up its own alliances and continue building its own military (both actions taken in case of Russian invasion), not to invade a non-NATO country for no other reason?
No, she agreed to send bombs for children.
Youāre missing 9/11, which fundamentally changed America.
Itās simple, NATO is the most Imperialist offensive coalition on the planet. These countries hyper-exploit the Global South and defend themselves via NATO. Here is an article on it.
No, NATO is not ājust a defensive alliance,ā go on, have a read. Itās a millitary alliance of Imperialist countries. Yes, Russia could have just not invaded, thougj given the shelling of ethnic-Russians within Ukraine by Kiev itās impossible to say NATO wasnāt deliberately provoking it as well.
Given the shelling of Donetsk and Luhansk, areas with majority ethnic Russians within Ukraine, Russia decided to take advantage of that and cripple Ukraineās military. It isnāt ājustified,ā but thatās what happened, and the invasion never would have happend if NATO wasnāt deliberately encircling Russia. Russia even tried to join NATO, but was denied.
lol
Site tagline material.
Copied from my other reply:
Iām sorry, but āsaying that sheād continue to arm Israelā, which would literally be her job if Congress apportions funds for her to arm Israel, is not equivalent to āpromising to give Israel bombsā. The keyword āpromiseā, to me, suggests she would do anything her power to aid Israel, even if she doesnāt have to. Iāll accept any constructive criticism of this take, but not a strawmanning that strips away the context that itās literally the law to do what Congress says in this case.
Can you explain why?
Stein has been primarily campaigning on āDrop Kamalaā, bleeding democratic support away from Harris.
ā¦Trick and? You cannot seriously expect the principled to support genocidal murderers.
Sheās the VICE president! We can already judge her actions and make pretty accurate judgements on how she will act as president based on what she is currently doing. Which is aiding genocide.
Being the VP by itself doesnāt give her any authority to make decisions concerning the Israel-Palestine conflict.
You can criticize her on the basis that sheāll likely continue the same kinds of actions Biden has already taken in the conflict, which has involved support for Israel, but also some sanctions against Israel, ceasfires, and calls for a two-state solution. Iām under the impression that if Biden was truly unconditionally pro-Israel, that the conflict would be over by now in the most violent way.