- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/33746300
The worst thing about Linux is its users
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My first genie wish is for the EU to declare Windows 7 public domain and set up a team to maintain security and driver updates for it.
What about instead working on react OS? (Not made in react)
can you even do that without Microsoft saying ok (or suing you) ?
No. Even if EU went full on dictator and tried, how would they get the sourcode? :D Unless the US would force Microsoft to hand it over, it would not happen.
Yes but it would require EU politicians growing balls.
Software and games.
No matter some people claims, there are always software/games that simply won’t run on Linux or no alternative available.
The newer updates to Wine are making that less relevant.
I only play competitive online. Kernel anti-cheat does not work on Linux.
Fair enough, but most solutions to restrict data gathering by windows are often worked around by Microsoft via eventual windows updates which is a perpetual risk. In my experience, using Linux is less of a headache in the long run.
As someone who considers themselves a “Linux-evangelist” and has run it exclusively on my devices for years, I really despise that the goto method for recruiting others is to shit on other OSs and claim that Linux beats them all. Whilst you’re not wrong and all your arguments are true, nobody wants to listen to that.
The most succesful campaigns I have seen has been to gently introduce people to Linux and let them play around with it. Alot of people really just liked it, but where more open to adopt since they arrived at the conclusion on their own, instead of being force-fed it.
I give out live usbs like they’re candy (to friends who are Linux curious)
I wish I could, but my friends are too paranoid to plug anything I give them into their computer. I have shown of a bit too much of my fondness for homemade Rubber Duckies :3
This edit ruins the point of the comic entirely.
No it doesn’t. Not everyone is able or wants to switch to Linux.
I mean, there are only
twothree realistic options (four if you are that one BSD user):-
Either you use Windows and let Microsoft spy on you (or rely on unbloating scripts which might eventually break your OS and not even block all Microsoft spyware in the first place);
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You buy overpriced Mac computer, that might also spy on you, who knows;
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You use Linux.
Apple does spy on you, but unlike Google and Microsoft, they don’t sell your data.
But you still have to decide if you trust them with your info
Linux is the way to go* if you absolutely want to avoid any kind of spyware
*be mindful of the distro you choose. Some do have telemetry
Apple does spy on you, but unlike Google and Microsoft, they don’t sell your data.
They are an American company though, so who knows how secure their data really is if a rich person decides they really want access.
Credit where credit is due, Apple did fight against FBI over something like this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple–FBI_encryption_dispute
Yes the company has been good about not just handing over customer data, but I was thinking more in terms of if the data was taken by force, like by a fascist government.
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For me, it’s simple, it’s gaming. As soon as I can run competitive online games on Linux, I’ll switch fully. Meanwhile, my non gaming computer runs Linux, but my gaming rig runs Windows.
Same. They’re not gonna get much out of my gaming setup either since it’s a debloated Windows 10 with everything disabled that I don’t strictly need and I’m not logged into anything except the game launchers I use.
I didn’t strictly need the firewall, I disabled it and then Windows update stopped working. I hate Windows so much
Same. I have a gaming PC with Windows 11 only use it for gaming. Everything else, I do it on my laptop.
Nowadays games that don’t run are rare but they still exist. One of my favorite games, BF1, sadly stopped working on Linux after they introduced anti cheat (on the other hand, at least now there are no cheaters spamming artillery)
I also have a meta quest and the best software to link the headset to the PC, Virtual Desktop, sadly also doesn’t work on linux
At least for VR stuff, I find Linux to work pretty well with ALVR Streamer, which is basically an open source version of Virtual Desktop.
For anticheat, there are if course no real good solutions yet, for that, we just need better market share to pressure game developers.
What ones specifically? I don’t bother with them these days, I’m mildly curious because I’m lucky enough to haven’t really found anything I can’t run.
Squad.
On ProtonDB some people say they have it running with no issues. But there’s just as many saying they can either only run it with shit performance or can’t connect to servers / play online.
I haven’t played it in the last year or so, but it was working quite fine under EndeavourOS without any tinkering. Maybe it’s a distro thing.
Squad works fine for me on Linux. Performance is no worse than it is on windows. I need to add a caveat that I haven’t tried the new UE 5 builđs of the game yet, so I can’t comment in that.
Yeah seems like a mixed bag, disappointing.
Enjoy getting fucked by the corporate rootkits. I hope your gaming PC is just for gaming.
My friend recently switched and I almost lost him from him desperately wanting to use Ableton. He switched to LMMS though and seems to have found more positive than negative from switching now.
Edit addition: If someone near me wants to switch then I’ll help them, I’ll even recommend it to them, but I’ll also let them know what things won’t work and what things would need to be switched when they do so.
Of course none of that will stop me from getting a little smile when a Windows user complains about Windows in any form
¿Porque no lo wine? Sure, it may have some drawbacks, but FL Studio works for me. Not sure on Ableton, though. I do wonder is LMMS is any good. I’m not a proper producer by any means, I just play around sometimes. And having so many samples, effects, plugins, etc. readily available in FL is nice. If I open the damn thing and it empty… at least some drums and a piano, maybe other instruments.
About 15 years ago I gave Linux a try, liked it and showed it to my wife who is less technical than me. She said she found it nicer than windows so I put it in the common computer and never looked back.
You can find as many excuses not to use Linux as I can give you reasons and solutions to try it… at the end of the day, try it, don’t try it, it’s your decision and you get to live with the consequences of those decisions. Me evangelizing about Linux is just as painful as hearing Window users complain about it yet unwilling to do anything but whine about it
If you do give it a try and have an issue, there are plenty places to get help for Linux better than the MS forums, this is undeniable.
Also, notice Windows is like bumper cars while Linux is like the entire vehicle fleet of the world, you want to drive a tank, you got it… wanna drive a super car, got it… wanna drive a hot air balloon that moves on good wishes, Linux has one distro just like that… you probably should not learn to drive in a Ferrari when you are late for work, choose a beginner friendly distro and move on from there at your pace if you feel like it
This. To many people who “just want to use” a computer, the OS in the background won’t make much of a difference, but linux makes it easier for the one maintaining it.
Lots less of us maintainer types than user types. User types like to pay for someone to fix it and buy a new one when that fails. There’s no enlightening them. When more pc’s come as Linux from the store and there is better support for a unified installer the real uptake won’t happen.
I don’t want Linus Torvald spying on me through my computer, either! /s
don’t worry, it would be Richard stallman
As a Linux user, I don’t really get it? What is the term supposed to signify? Why is the Linux dude in a well? I have so many questions
Everybody wants to complain about how bad things suck, and then just shrug and keep living with it.
Seriously, it sucks that Microsoft is an evil corporation spying on all Windows users. Nothing will change unless people start coming up with and using alternatives. This isn’t some fairytale where government regulation works in our favor, either. The only vote we have that matters to corporations is the choice to give them our money and data.
Linux has a learning curve, and there are some things that are frustrating at first. None of those things are more frustrating than having your personal computer ruled by the robber baron Bill Gates. Just my two cents. I am very intelligent.
I will say that there is a usability issue with some aspects of Linux. If you are not a sysadmin but want to use a computer for more than just browsing the web and sending email, you can get blocked pretty easily and the vast number of possible configurations out there makes troubleshooting way more difficult than on a windows or Mac machine.
There definitely is a usability issue, but it’s gotten insanely easier in just the 4 years I’ve been using it. Could you elaborate on what you mean by using a computer for more than browsing the web and sending email? My mind immediately goes to gaming, but I’m sure you mean other facets of PC use as well.
Well…gaming.
But also trying to use various apps that are more niche than browsers and office software.
For example, there is a creative writing app called Manuskript that doesn’t seem to install the same way if I’m using fedora and KDE or fedora and Gnome.
Or, I installed various distros on older Apple hardware and they don’t automatically mount a second drive that is present and detected, even after taking what should be the steps to auto-mount the drive at startup.
I don’t know how to feel about this. Because the intelligent guy is totally me, but I also recognise that Linux is in no shape for a non tech literate person just to jump into.
Linux is great for two kinds of people:
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Ones who only use web browser, and maybe listen to music/watch movies on their computer (so probably majority of people);
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Ones who have time and energy to tinker with their computer, because doing anything that’s beyond the before-mentioned tasks will eventually make user do CLI stuff, to fix shit.
The third kind which embodies both of the above and are likely some kind of developer themselves
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You could install Mint on your mother’s computer and don’t tell her, and she’d probably still think she was using Windows until it came time to install new software. Linux For Normies has come a long way, especially recently. It could be ready for mass adoption very soon, if not already.
I did exactly that, because our Surface Laptop Go (!) became very slow with Windows 11. She thought there was an update and uses it without any problems, some parts are even more intuitive to her now.
I agree. My mom has been running Mint for 9 years with no problems. My tech illiterate friend who has an nvidia gpu on the other hand needs a lot of handholding. He would never be able to make a transition on his own.
Maybe I’m somehow lucky but in the year plus that I’ve had mint on my gaming machine with an RTX 3050 I’ve had no issues. Maybe cause I rarely play demanding games? But modded Cyberpunk has been fine as well
Yup. Linux + Nvidia is the problem here. I convinced my friend to move to Linux, explaining that all his favorite Steam games work on my Linux machine with no issues, just download and click play, tested it myself. Turns out, I don’t have an nvidia gpu, he does, and a lot of the games straight up don’t work, and the ones that do need at least one config change, if not more.
I have yet to have any issues on Steam myself when gaming with my Radeon card.
I feel like Linux works for hardcore users and extremely casual users, but it doesn’t work that great for medium savvy users.
Like sure if I’m barely using the computer for anything other than a web browser then it’ll work fine.
And if I’m willing to do a whole lot of research I can also make it work for power user setups (at an even better outcome than Windows).
But if I’m just a gamer who’s smart enough to do some modding and run a couple of game servers and maybe some other utilities, but I’m not incredibly tech savvy otherwise? Not a great fit.
I guess I’d fall into the medium savvy category by your definition. I’m running Linux and for the most part it’s been relatively smooth but there have been lots of things I’ve needed to look up. I’d like to be more tech savvy and that’s part of the reason I’m running Linux and use lemmy, but I do agree the middle ground is the hardest for Linux.
Im the medium user with 6 hard drives, a ton of peripherals, audio equipment, 4 other desktops. I choose linux to make life even harder because otherwise im a lazy pos.
I do like Mint, but now I’m thinking Bazzite might be better for a beginner or average user because all those configurations and default apps/packages meant to make gaming easier also trickles down to having things “just work” for a casual average PC user. 🤔
I’m writing this on Bazzite right now, it’s awesome, works great, and it’s true that the preinstalled apps and scripts are really useful for someone coming over from Windows… but not just for them! I’ve been a Linux user for maybe a couple of decades now and I find them very useful.
Same boat, I’ve actually had a few friends inquire after seeing bazzite in action. For me personally, 0 issues across 3 devices so far with it.
I was gonna say this too.
Bazzite is functional, has helpful utilities pre built in, and is pretty idiot proof for the average user, as compared to many other linux distros.
99% of it ‘just works’.
Use Bazaar, install flatpak, other useful stuff is pre-installed, use them, if you wanna do something fancier, documentation exists and is pretty good.
Beyond that, for the truly tech illiterate, you just need to make the icons and DE look the same as what they’re used to, and then grandma will probably be able to figure it out… I think you can fairly easily do this with a good number of linux distros, and there are some that are just designed around this concept.
Depends from usecase ,mint better when u need deal with some old hardware like old canon printers,scanners cause u can manually install firmware in root folders,I stopped liking bazzite because of switching from KDE appss on qt to gtk while they building it on KDE what point of this moves ,build then on gnome of something what use gtk based environment.That I switched to kinoite and just install software I needed ,installed it to my elderly people too ,installed codecs and that’s it
You don’t want your mother to be able to install software.
My mom used OpenSUSE maybe 10 years ago on a netbook-ish notebook and never had problems until the hardware failed
Pop! OS is even slicker.
Times have really changed, especially in the past five years. Even completely tech-agnostic people use GNU/Linux in my family. Reason is “Because it just works.” no more Windows installing things that you hate. No more advertisements in the start menu or file manager. No more screenshots every five seconds. No more Windows slowing down the computer gradually. A relative’s computer was unusable because of Windows, because it has slowed down the computer so much that the start menu took 10 seconds to open. All she did was her net banking, text editing and some very light photo editing. Ever since switching to GNU/Linux, her computer works again normally. And all of the tech questions about weird things like programmes randomly not starting have disappeared.
Also, nowadays you really never have to touch the command line. You can use an App-Store-like experience to install your programmes, just like you would on a phone. It also handles all updates automatically. This alone makes it such a better, “normie” operating system than Windows. Hit “update all”, and it updates all of your packages for the system, the kernel itself, drivers, the apps themselves, literally everything. Because try explaining grandma, she needs to update the system, then the drivers, then every single application separately. Now you can tell Grandma instead: “Press this button and wait for 20 minutes.”
The difference is night and day. Old computers work normally again. You don’t need such overkill configurations like most Windows computers have to just run your text editing on net banking. By now it is objectively better.
If you’re new, just use one of the many pre-configured options. No need to tinker with your system if you don’t want to. Just install one of the literally hundreds “just works” distros that package everything for you.
Lastly, I’m going to say it is no exaggeration if I say installing GNU/Linux has solved literally every single issue people in my family had with computers. Because now it just works. No bloat, no nonsense. Just a computer.
Edit: typo.
Yes, I totally agree in that specific use case it is really great. As written in a different comment, my mom has been running Linux Mint for 9 years with absolutely no problem, because she doesn’t use it for other things than email and browsing. She never had to touch the terminal and everything just works.
On the other hand I have a friend who was sick of Windows and I convinced him to start using linux and of course nvidia didn’t work out of the box. Then there are some compatibility issues with x11 and certain nvidia gpus and with wayland for other gpus - I didn’t know this before installing. So after installing and leaving I basically left him with a laggy mess. So we had to figure out how to fix that. He also have very few ram and during the install we only setup 1gb og swap - which was what the setup recommended. Then after I went home we had to figure out how to increase his swap size. Again this was my bad.
But what I am trying to say is that as a normal person going blind into linux, they would experience the same hurdles and not knowing where to start looking for solutions. So I really don’t think it is ready for mainstream use - unless we as friends and relatives are willing to act as tech support for whoever wants to transision.
The lesson I personally learned is: for normies, don’t configure. They don’t need it, and they don’t want it. They want something that just works. And if you stick with the “just works” distros and don’t try to configure them, you’ll be golden and they’ll be happy.
Yeah, we installed Kubuntu and it still needs configuring.
How so?
Because off all the reasons I just wrote in the previous comment.
Got it.
I find the “it just works” line ironic.
Because that’s usually what Windows has going for it. Meanwhile any Linux distro I’ve tried so far has me search for how to install a specific thing and try 5 different results, because of course the command to copy&paste on the first few doesn’t work. Doesn’t help that most sites and people tell you to install software this way instead of using some software centre / app store where you just click on an install button.
I am very happy working in Linux as my daily driver, while my husband is bugging me to switch his desktop and laptop over since he is frustrated at how awful the UI in Windows 11 is. But I know he has a low tolerance for frustration and while he has decent technical skills, he tends to accumulate the absolutely most peculiar technical problems I’ve ever seen. I mean, I’m rather savvy with Windows and he comes up with problems that take me a long time to figure out - issues that would be difficult to cause even if you were intentionally trying to break Windows.
So I don’t really know what to do here. He likes my Garuda setup because I’ve shown him how customizable KDE Plasma is, but the amount of weird shit dealing with the AUR that I have run into, stuff that I can solve fairly easily but a layperson would likely not be able to handle, makes me want to put Mint on his system even if he’ll find it less suitable.
Honestly, mint isn’t bad or anything. I’m running an endeavoros sway build for my computers, but I recently installed mint on a laptop I was giving my rather tech illiterate sister. It was quite snappy and had a pretty cohesive interface, I was actually kinda impressed by how smooth of a process it was and how usable it was. I used to recommend installing Ubuntu on if they weren’t the most tech literate, but often it had some issues, but now mint is pretty much a go to. I fully expect to be the tech support if necessary, but I kinda suspect that it won’t be super necessary these days if you set it up right from the get go.
My wife got into a tizzy with Windows so I put Linux on her laptop, and everything has been good. We went GNOME since it is simplified, so she can’t get into trouble. I find Zorin OS has some nice layout options, even though it is GNOME it can look very different.
My suggestion would be PopOS. Also, I have an Nvidia graphics card. Literally never had to install any driver separately. It’s all packaged for me, which I like. Rock solid and LTS release basis. Became a Windows refugee in 2021, never going back.
As someone like your husband, I use garuda too and definitely recommend he use something else (probably something like kubuntu), but my main recommendation is that if he’s not willing to switch it himself (ideally as a dual boot) he’s not ready to switch. I don’t bother my computer expert wife with my bizarre problems, just like I didn’t on windows.
Personally I’m never switching back to windows. Though seriously, your husband should probably have something either simple or immutable and be prepared to do his own tech support.
He really tries not to bother me, but the screaming gets my attention and when he’s about to physically destroy the computer I feel I have to step in and fix it. That being said, he is not comfortable installing it himself so I want something that provokes the minimal amount of hand-holding. Honestly, the biggest issue with me not putting Garuda on his system is that he needs Davinci Resolve for his work and it doesn’t install directly off the AUR, you have to download the application separately from Black Magic Design’s site and edit the build file. He is not going to understand how to do that.
Oh yeah if he’s at the screaming and attacking the computer level thats wildly different, I’d interpreted it as moderate frustration at a problem that’s not going away
Heck, I have a tech literate friend who can’t handle Linux but I think if you’re willing to be tech support like my husband is for his parents, the transition is easier.
This is the answer imho. If you really think people should transition to Linux, then you also really need to accept being tech support for those people you recommend it to - depending on how tech literate and tinker adverse they are.
My hot take: If you have to use a command line EVER to do ANYTHING - it’s not ready for non-technical users.
I know this is an annoying take, but Mac OS is considered the most user friendly OS because of its limited hardware choices and fewer command line interactions.
But nowadays you don’t need to do that anymore. Every distro has its own app store. You can install the applications you like with one click and update them all, together with the entire system and drivers, with one click as well. It doesn’t get much simpler than that.
Sadly not everything from GitHub is in those stores yet.
My hot take: If you have to use a command line EVER to do ANYTHING - it’s not ready for non-technical users.
Then I guess Linux is as ready as Windows for the non-technical folks… the only difference is that with Windows is not like you get a CLI to do something, you just don’t get that something period.
They why do I need to use the CLI to fix my mother’s Mac at least 3 times a year?
I don’t know, I once installed xubuntu on my parents old laptop, my dad who knows a little bit about computers hated it. My mom who knows nothing about computers liked it. My dad knows just enough to get spyware and shit
The fact you recognize that means you’re not the arrogant “intelligent” guy in the meme.
Linux is in no shape for a non tech literate person just to jump into.
The tech illiterate are not typically the ones complaining about Microsoft; they mostly have zero clue about what’s going on. Stop choosing perfection as the threshold for usability.
but I also recognise that Linux is in no shape for a non tech literate person just to jump into.
I mean idk. Either you are on the high side of tech literacy and then Linux is easy and does everything you want and more, but even on the low side its pretty good. I imagine that if a chromebook is good for you then just a vanilla Ubuntu/Mint will do. There does seem to be a valley in between where Windows, thanks to its propritary 3rd party catalog, just cannot be replaced.
I totally agree. If someone has the time we can argue as well, I would love to see your side.
Nah, my wife runs NixOS. She has zero technical background or computer skill. I asked her what she needed installed and filled in the config file, did the rebuild switch. Shes been on it for 5 years now, zero issues, it all just works. She didn’t like KDE because its too much like Windows with menus and options that confused her, so I put GnomeDE on it. She’s happy, and if it dies sinces it is a 15year old laptop, I can replicate her system with the config.
It sounds more like you run NixOS for your wife
I don’t touch it. Just initial setup. And its had the same apps for 5 years. Nothing ever needs doing, everything just works.
But if you want a tweaking system for non savvy user I’d say install ZorinOS. Super user friendly and appstore, etc.
While I agree with the sentiment that some Linux distros are used friendly, what you’re describing isn’t a good example of that. Not everyone has a technical spouse who can be their sysadmin.
The ideal is that a non technical person maybe stumbles a little trying to install it. Then, they can use it with the same amount (or less) of struggle they might have with windows.
Then ZorinOS would be the recommendation, super simple install, very familiar interface for those coming from Windows, app store etc
Disagree
Ubuntu was already easy to use more than 10 years ago. If you worry about privacy and don’t seek alternatives, you’re an idiot.
Ubuntu was, and still is, to a new user, just as easy to set up as it is to break. Every Debian based distro that tries to “fix” the outdated packages “problem” suffers from that.
I use arch btw
I would switch to Linux in a heartbeat if it ran all the programs I use. And yes, I know about wine, but it’s still not all there yet. Thankfully there are more and more programs I use that now run natively in Linux, so I still have hope.
if it ran all the programs I use
Got ya fam: don’t use the programs that don’t run on linux. UR WELCOME
This is how I do it. Emacs has everything you need.
To quote an old joke. Emacs is a good operating system, the only thing it lacks is a good text editor
I never tried to use it but this tracks with what I’ve heard. This blog post is worth sharing: https://www.andrewt.net/blog/vim/index.html (Vim must die and Emacs must not take its place)
Relevant excerpt:
Emacs is a sort of medium-sized operating system in which an enterprising user could, in theory, build a text editor.
I can’t recommend enough that everyone read this post, it’s great. Funnily enough, it seems that Microsoft of all companies did eventually make the terminal editor he was wishing for: https://github.com/microsoft/edit
He (Andrew T) shared this new development on Mastodon a couple of months ago but I can’t find that post too easily. Maybe I’ll ask him to append a note about MS edit to the post.
Do you dual boot it with blender for all your video editing needs ?
I’d do that, but there is a work app I need and there are not alternatives.
Sorta unironically. My partner and I have just started switching to other programs.
Honestly, between Lutris and Steam it’s now pretty easy to run most things from windows in Linux. There are some exceptions, such as Office, but the majority of my Steam library runs great. It’s come a long way, even in the last year. The frontends really simplify things.
Me having to do fuckass crazy shit to get two apps to run at the same time in Lutris to play Japanese VNs while selecting text 😭
I miss just opening the game, and opening Texractor. Now I gotta follow a guide from another distro to a T, pray I typed a / correctly, make .bat file, and run a whole other mini-OS in the background.
The Maine Thing I’m worried about that Linux won’t run or at least won’t run well is VR but I did not try it yet.
ALVR works well with the quest 2 with little to no hassle (at least, no more hassle than using the oculus Windows app or VR desktop), but since it’s wireless, the compression artefacts are a bit annoying for me
Any options for wired VR with the Quest 2?
I haven’t found any, but it’s also been a while since I’ve checked (or even played VR).
I’d recommend giving the oculus app a try via wine experimental though. Just report back here and let me know if it works 😎
Me, Linux enthusiast, software engineer, after spending an hour trying to get some radio manufacturer’s software to cooperate with Wine: Honey, can I borrow your laptop?
I’m sorry, Mr. Torvalds! Forgive me!
Skill. Issue.
