You were so wrapped up in the current situation that your very limited imagination couldn’t comprehend changing it, and you’re myopically focused on the world as it is instead of what it could be.
Do you have reading comprehension issues? We are already imagining a world where all basic needs are being subsidized by the government… Which is not the curt status quo the last time I checked.
introduce a hypothetical that was so over your head that you clearly got frustrated with the situation.
We were already talking about the likelihood of a hypothetical when you further proposed ubi on top of it.
thinking from a “how could we work this ass things are” situation because of your mental limitations,
Again… We were already talking about a hypothetical That is different from the current status quo. Just because I don’t think UBI is compatible with that hypothetical doesn’t mean anything but your inability to understand economics.
wouldn’t work in the economic system we have now, and since you’re not really able to look outside of that, you, like a frustrated child, see it as an impossibility and lashed out
Again…can you not retain what you read? We were already talking about an economic system that is not our current system. UBI is only compatible with our current system, because it’s a ploy from billionaires to stop paying for things like social security and Medicare.
small stipend on top of that,
For what reason…? You haven’t validated your reasoning other than falsely claiming that it drives the economy. Which I already explained why it would not happen in this hypothetical economic scenario.
puritanical thought of life without work is sinful and should be avoided, especially with your repeated accusations of laziness directed at me
I honestly don’t care if you wanted to work or not in this scenario, you aren’t going to starve, you will have the right to higher education, and will have a roof over your head. What I don’t want is for the system to further incentive people like you to do nothing but goon all day and take from the system without ever giving anything back to society.
If that is possible the system will not be productive enough to provide for everyone. Socialism just doesn’t mean you can be a lazy ass and get a free check, quite the opposite. It means we’re all responsible for providing enough to insure the people who lack the ability to contribute don’t go without.
I only assume you never plan on retirement and view retired people with contempt for their lack of toil. It’s why I assume you wish to stab homeless people, for their sloth.
Lol, I plan on retiring early and am on track to do so… We don’t currently live in a socialized economy, so I really do not care if you aren’t being productive, it’s no skin off my back. Though I would advocate that you still deserve food, healthcare, and a roof over your head.
but honestly I don’t think your heart is in it if one of your big arguments against ubi is the same one being used against all those things, the horrible idea that some people might not work when they could.
Again, you really need to take a course at the community college or something for reading. In our current economy, I wouldn’t mind UBI so long as it wasn’t a veiled attempt to lower social security or Medicare funding. However, in the hypothetical scenario new were talking about, UBI would be unnecessary and would likely increase the funding requirements while simultaneously lowering productivity…which is why no socialist government has done any sort of UBI in the past.
Ah well, have fun working towards humanity having to do perpetual labor forever, I’m sure that’s a great idea. Wouldn’t want too many idle hands and all.
This is the reason I call you out for being a lazy fuck. Because that seems to be the only thing you really care about. You seem to be in hysterics over the thought that you might have to be a productive member of a socialized society, even though it would mean having universal housing, education, food security, and healthcare. Again providing for all society is not free, I’m sorry to burst your little imagination land bubble. Please learn to read, it might help some of these ideas seep through your thick lazy skull.
Heh, figured you wouldn’t get it. Funny you rant about reading comprehension but can’t really comprehend what’s being put in front of you. Love the assumptions, too. For someone who doesn’t like laziness you really do not make the effort to think much, and for someone who claims to care about people you really are dismissive and unemphatic. It’s kinda sad to see someone who’s head is up their ass thinking they have clear vision.
That’s fine though, you work towards that society you want and eventually you’ll catch up to me and we can work towards mine. You’re only a stepping stone after all.
Heh, figured you couldn’t even begin to explain your assertions. All you have done is reassert a claim that’s already been disputed without responding to the dispute itself. It’s obvious you are just avoiding engaging in any kind of dialogue because you don’t know enough about the topic to respond.
That’s fine though, you work towards that society you want
A functional sustainable society that provides all basic needs for every citizen? How awful of me…
Again, an obvious attempt of constructing a strawman argument that portrays me as advocating for the current status quo.
You’re only a stepping stone after all.
Again… Where is the production that allows for funding for UBI coming from in this scenario? If basic needs are already met, and providing for some of those basic needs is how UBI traditionally claims to improve production… How does UBI “pay for itself”?
So let me ask you this: if there was a society that every person’s needs are met, they didn’t have to work if they didn’t want to, and everyone there was pretty happy and educated and fulfilled, would you want to live there? No sneaky sci-fi bullshit where it’s the matrix or aliens or whatever, it’s genuinely a society like that on a global scale.
Just because we are arguing about the validity of a hypothetical scenario, does not mean you can introduce the fantastical to aid your argument. Socialism is achievable in the foreseeable future, post scarcity dream world where productivity doesn’t matter does not.
Yes or no please.
Are you incapable of making a rebuttal without the use of a logical fallacy? Why would I agree to debate within the framework of a false dicotomy?
No sneaky sci-fi bullshit where it’s the matrix or aliens or whatever, it’s genuinely a society like that on a global scale.
You are dreaming of a post scarcity society when in reality we are entering an era that is going to be dictated by climate change, mass migration, and dwindling natural resources. Of course everyone would love to live in a post scarcity society… but that’s not a possibility in the foreseeable future outside of alien intervention nor some sci-fi scenario.
Ah, so not only do you resort to childish insults but you’re incapable to actually answer a simple yes or no question. I wonder why you’re afraid to answer, but that’s your business.
Since you obviously don’t respect me, as evident from the above points, I don’t really see a point in trying to defend my position. You wouldn’t listen to anything I had to say, any facts or studies you’d dismiss as a scam, and you won’t even bother trying to get to understand my position enough to argue against it.
You’ve already decided that, because I had even a slightly different position than you, not even against you just different, that you’re smarter, more hard working, and better than me and therefore I deserve, earned even, insults and dismissal.
So this long since hasn’t been an argument in good faith.
Which is really disappointing, I would’ve actually enjoyed having a discussion on the validity of a ubi in a socialist society with someone, but that someone clearly wasn’t going to be you, and never was going to be.
The worst part I feel is how much damage you’re doing to the position of universal healthcare, housing, education and food, by being so venomous. Do your position and your movement a favor and please, don’t engage with people about the subject. You’re doing the same the the WBC does for Christianity, and giving everyone on our side a bad name.
Ah, so not only do you resort to childish insults but you’re incapable to actually
Accurately accusing you of using logical fallacies = childish insults? Maybe try not using a logical fallacy as a rebuttal for once?
answer a simple yes or no question. I wonder why you’re afraid to answer, but that’s your business.
Because I disagree with the inherent premise of the question, and the reasoning that answering it would bring any substance to the dispute.
Since you obviously don’t respect me, as evident from the above points, I don’t really see a point in trying to defend my position.
Lol, convenient timing… You obviously don’t respect me either, I just don’t try to virtue signal my way out of an argument.
You wouldn’t listen to anything I had to say, any facts or studies you’d dismiss as a scam
You haven’t given any facts or studies, or even logical explanations that support your opinion. You have just made the same easily disputed claims over and over again without addressing my rebuttals to them.
You’ve already decided that, because I had even a slightly different position than you, not even against you just different, that you’re smarter, more hard working, and better than me and therefore I deserve, earned even, insults and dismissal.
And now we’re pityfishing… You know, this might have an iota of weight behind it if you didn’t accuse me of wanting to murder homeless people because I have a slightly different position than yours.
I would’ve actually enjoyed having a discussion on the validity of a ubi in a socialist society with someone
I have been asking you to justify your position on this the whole time…
The worst part I feel is how much damage you’re doing to the position of universal healthcare, housing, education and food, by being so venomous.
Trying to explain basic economic realities to a moron…so venomous!
You know I didn’t actually start insulting you until you accused me of being an asshole for trying to explain the flaws in your claim.
giving everyone on our side a bad name.
I don’t think for a second you actually care about anyone but yourself. No one who seriously wants to enact socialism cares about UBI. It is literally a ploy billionaires have been lobbying for about a decade.
Do you have reading comprehension issues? We are already imagining a world where all basic needs are being subsidized by the government… Which is not the curt status quo the last time I checked.
We were already talking about the likelihood of a hypothetical when you further proposed ubi on top of it.
Again… We were already talking about a hypothetical That is different from the current status quo. Just because I don’t think UBI is compatible with that hypothetical doesn’t mean anything but your inability to understand economics.
Again…can you not retain what you read? We were already talking about an economic system that is not our current system. UBI is only compatible with our current system, because it’s a ploy from billionaires to stop paying for things like social security and Medicare.
For what reason…? You haven’t validated your reasoning other than falsely claiming that it drives the economy. Which I already explained why it would not happen in this hypothetical economic scenario.
I honestly don’t care if you wanted to work or not in this scenario, you aren’t going to starve, you will have the right to higher education, and will have a roof over your head. What I don’t want is for the system to further incentive people like you to do nothing but goon all day and take from the system without ever giving anything back to society.
If that is possible the system will not be productive enough to provide for everyone. Socialism just doesn’t mean you can be a lazy ass and get a free check, quite the opposite. It means we’re all responsible for providing enough to insure the people who lack the ability to contribute don’t go without.
Lol, I plan on retiring early and am on track to do so… We don’t currently live in a socialized economy, so I really do not care if you aren’t being productive, it’s no skin off my back. Though I would advocate that you still deserve food, healthcare, and a roof over your head.
Again, you really need to take a course at the community college or something for reading. In our current economy, I wouldn’t mind UBI so long as it wasn’t a veiled attempt to lower social security or Medicare funding. However, in the hypothetical scenario new were talking about, UBI would be unnecessary and would likely increase the funding requirements while simultaneously lowering productivity…which is why no socialist government has done any sort of UBI in the past.
This is the reason I call you out for being a lazy fuck. Because that seems to be the only thing you really care about. You seem to be in hysterics over the thought that you might have to be a productive member of a socialized society, even though it would mean having universal housing, education, food security, and healthcare. Again providing for all society is not free, I’m sorry to burst your little imagination land bubble. Please learn to read, it might help some of these ideas seep through your thick lazy skull.
Heh, figured you wouldn’t get it. Funny you rant about reading comprehension but can’t really comprehend what’s being put in front of you. Love the assumptions, too. For someone who doesn’t like laziness you really do not make the effort to think much, and for someone who claims to care about people you really are dismissive and unemphatic. It’s kinda sad to see someone who’s head is up their ass thinking they have clear vision.
That’s fine though, you work towards that society you want and eventually you’ll catch up to me and we can work towards mine. You’re only a stepping stone after all.
Heh, figured you couldn’t even begin to explain your assertions. All you have done is reassert a claim that’s already been disputed without responding to the dispute itself. It’s obvious you are just avoiding engaging in any kind of dialogue because you don’t know enough about the topic to respond.
A functional sustainable society that provides all basic needs for every citizen? How awful of me…
Again, an obvious attempt of constructing a strawman argument that portrays me as advocating for the current status quo.
Again… Where is the production that allows for funding for UBI coming from in this scenario? If basic needs are already met, and providing for some of those basic needs is how UBI traditionally claims to improve production… How does UBI “pay for itself”?
You’ve mistaken my disinterest for ignorance.
So let me ask you this: if there was a society that every person’s needs are met, they didn’t have to work if they didn’t want to, and everyone there was pretty happy and educated and fulfilled, would you want to live there? No sneaky sci-fi bullshit where it’s the matrix or aliens or whatever, it’s genuinely a society like that on a global scale.
Yes or no please.
Just because we are arguing about the validity of a hypothetical scenario, does not mean you can introduce the fantastical to aid your argument. Socialism is achievable in the foreseeable future, post scarcity dream world where productivity doesn’t matter does not.
Are you incapable of making a rebuttal without the use of a logical fallacy? Why would I agree to debate within the framework of a false dicotomy?
You are dreaming of a post scarcity society when in reality we are entering an era that is going to be dictated by climate change, mass migration, and dwindling natural resources. Of course everyone would love to live in a post scarcity society… but that’s not a possibility in the foreseeable future outside of alien intervention nor some sci-fi scenario.
Ah, so not only do you resort to childish insults but you’re incapable to actually answer a simple yes or no question. I wonder why you’re afraid to answer, but that’s your business.
Since you obviously don’t respect me, as evident from the above points, I don’t really see a point in trying to defend my position. You wouldn’t listen to anything I had to say, any facts or studies you’d dismiss as a scam, and you won’t even bother trying to get to understand my position enough to argue against it.
You’ve already decided that, because I had even a slightly different position than you, not even against you just different, that you’re smarter, more hard working, and better than me and therefore I deserve, earned even, insults and dismissal.
So this long since hasn’t been an argument in good faith.
Which is really disappointing, I would’ve actually enjoyed having a discussion on the validity of a ubi in a socialist society with someone, but that someone clearly wasn’t going to be you, and never was going to be.
The worst part I feel is how much damage you’re doing to the position of universal healthcare, housing, education and food, by being so venomous. Do your position and your movement a favor and please, don’t engage with people about the subject. You’re doing the same the the WBC does for Christianity, and giving everyone on our side a bad name.
Accurately accusing you of using logical fallacies = childish insults? Maybe try not using a logical fallacy as a rebuttal for once?
Because I disagree with the inherent premise of the question, and the reasoning that answering it would bring any substance to the dispute.
Lol, convenient timing… You obviously don’t respect me either, I just don’t try to virtue signal my way out of an argument.
You haven’t given any facts or studies, or even logical explanations that support your opinion. You have just made the same easily disputed claims over and over again without addressing my rebuttals to them.
And now we’re pityfishing… You know, this might have an iota of weight behind it if you didn’t accuse me of wanting to murder homeless people because I have a slightly different position than yours.
I have been asking you to justify your position on this the whole time…
Trying to explain basic economic realities to a moron…so venomous!
You know I didn’t actually start insulting you until you accused me of being an asshole for trying to explain the flaws in your claim.
I don’t think for a second you actually care about anyone but yourself. No one who seriously wants to enact socialism cares about UBI. It is literally a ploy billionaires have been lobbying for about a decade.