• Demdaru@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    46
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    19 hours ago

    One of the saddest truths about aggresive vegans is that, no matter what they say or write, normal folk won’t care. Yes, we skin 'em, we fry 'em, we eat 'em. Exactly. No matter how you dress that, that’s normal. And you trying to dress it as disgusting is only making it sound more epic.

    • Aequitas@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      7 hours ago

      I don’t think so. In fact, I think most people are very well aware that vegans are essentially right. Inflicting suffering for personal enjoyment is something most people would reject. That’s why indifference towards veganism and vegans isn’t enough. You have to deflect the negative emotions that this would normally trigger in most people. In this respect, it’s only slightly different from MAGAs mocking deported people with Studio Ghibli memes. You turn cruelty into something funny or quirky so that it becomes bearable. This relieves the burden on those who want to cling to it.

    • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      22
      ·
      16 hours ago

      No matter how you dress that, that’s normal

      Doesn’t make it morally pure in any manner whatsoever

        • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          21
          ·
          16 hours ago

          People are so fucking touchy about their perceived right to eat meat without ever considering the objective realities concerning it

            • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              16
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              16 hours ago

              That mass scale factory farming is horrifically cruel. Indicative of what I’m saying that I would even need to type this.

              • remon@ani.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                13
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                15 hours ago

                I mean, sure. I wouldn’t call it an objective reality since you can’t really measure cruelness, but I guess we can agree. But it is something I have considered.

                • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  6 hours ago

                  The reality of it is objective fact. How people feel about it is subjective, but I find it disturbing that it’s not pretty universally seen as monstrous behavior.

                  • remon@ani.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    6 hours ago

                    The reality of it is objective fact.

                    In the sense that it happens, sure.

                    But there is nothing objective about whether this morally good or bad because that depends on how people feel about it.

    • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      20
      ·
      16 hours ago

      As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in their behaviour towards creatures, all men were Nazis. The smugness with which man could do with other species as he pleased exemplified the most extreme racist theories, the principle that might is right.

      Do you think this way of dressing it makes you sound epic?

      • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        25
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        14 hours ago

        If I thought that fish had deep meaningful personal lives in Europe and thousands of years of culture, families that love and care about them, harvesting them might cause me a moments pause, but you’re making a strawman argument. Comparing fishing to deathcamps is fucking insane.

        • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          15
          ·
          14 hours ago

          That quote is by Isaac Bashevis Singer, a Polish Jew who fled to the USA to escape the Nazis. And he didn’t think it was insane.

            • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              13
              ·
              13 hours ago

              Well that’s because you’re drawing a false equivalence between the factory farming he criticised and a guy fishing in a lake on the weekends.

              • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                11
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                13 hours ago

                I also think comparing factory farming to the Holocaust is absurd. The Holocaust was not a vital food source for large portions of the world. I don’t like factory farming, but you and a Holocaust survivor don’t have the merit to make that equivalence in my opinion.

                And please miss me with “the world doesn’t need factory farming if we all go vegan” bullshit, I eat meat and you’ll never convince me, or likely anyone not to by making such absurd arguments. It’s why nobody takes vegans seriously.

                Also, how do you know a vegan marathon runner trains CrossFit?

                They’ve told you.

                • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  2 hours ago

                  I mean is it really that absurd? For most people in the US, meat is really not necessary. The only argument would be it’s cheaper, and the reason it’s cheaper is because it’s subsidized. I’m not going to call out the starving guy in Africa for killing a cow or farming pigs, nor the poor person buying the cheap meat. I will call out a person who could swap off meat with minimal changes still supporting the animal industry, and the people who vote for the subsidies.

                  I say it’s not an absurd comparison because there are some 300 million animals going through factory farming every year, where some animals don’t even have room to stand or turn around and get huge painful wounds all over their body. Same with broiler chickens basically being unable to stand and having heart attacks because their organs are basically being crushed from birth. Not to mention the people working at animal processing facilities end up scarred mentally from seeing blood and death 8 hours a day, where instead they could just be working on a normal farm. This on the scale of 300 million animals… idk like it’s maybe not the same level of brutality but the scale of the suffering is just massive.

                • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  9
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  13 hours ago

                  The Holocaust was not a vital food source for large portions of the world

                  That’s technically correct. The Nazis did use concentration camps for slave labour to help their war economy, but slave labour was only a vital food source in other points in history. Drag thinks the Nazis deserved to lose the war, and adults who relied on slaves for food like the colonial Americans deserved to starve. And drag doesn’t draw a distinction between human slavery and animal slavery when drag says that. Drag wants to prevent suffering, and doesn’t care if it’s humans or animals who are suffering. Killing innocents to feed a predator only results in the predator getting hungry again in a few days or weeks. This is an easy trolley problem.

      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        15 hours ago

        (one of) the problem(s) with Nazis and the Holocaust is precisely that it treated people like animals. that’s what makes it wrong.

        • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          15
          ·
          15 hours ago

          Yes, treating anything the way humans treat animals is wrong. Isaac Bashevis Singer lived through the holocaust as a Jewish man, and learned firsthand what suffering is inflicted on the animals. He then wrote this quote.

          • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            10 hours ago

            We are animals. Simplistic in many ways many animals eat meat, and that’s ok. We do it too. We should do it much less from an environmental standpoint. Meat is good to eat, however there is nothing wrong with not eating meat. Plants feel too, not like us for sure but they communicate damage to one another.

            • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 hours ago

              Animals also extremely commonly rape and murder, and humans do it too. But we generally try to avoid animal instincts that cause suffering, even if many people naturally would do those things.

                • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  2 hours ago

                  Yes and just because we do it doesn’t make it okay, no? Humans kill each other just like animals, but I’m not going to use that as a justification for killing someone.

                  • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    2 hours ago

                    Humans kill each just like animals because we are animals. If your back was agaisnt the wall would you fight back like the animal you are? Or would you run away like the animal you are? People do some crazy shit when we remove this thin veneer of human superiority

                • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 hours ago

                  No, drag’s implying people don’t have to do something just because it’s natural. Dying of dysentery is natural, but we try to avoid that. That’s why your argument that we should eat meat because it’s natural is silly

                  • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    2 hours ago

                    Eating isn’t natural? Dying or dysentery is natural, that’s why people still die of dysentery. My argument that animals eat meat isnt silly

    • real_squids@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      22
      ·
      17 hours ago

      Lynchings were normal, should we bring them back too? Normality doesn’t equal what’s right.

      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        26
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        16 hours ago

        should we bring them back

        only for people that insist on cheapening human suffering by comparing people to livestock.

        • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 hours ago

          It is possible to care about human suffering and also animal suffering. I can say supporting factory farming is horrible, and the way we treat some people is horrible. Most sane people don’t want animals tortured, and are outraged when someone hurts their pet, but then also support factory farming because having a pig in a 3ft by 3ft cage sitting unable to move for its entire life is based actually.

        • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          16 hours ago

          At least animals don’t create fascist dictators who threaten nuclear war every time they feel insecure about their small penises.

          Not really sure why it’s taken for granted that animals are such low forms of life that being compared to them in any manner is a horrifying insult (it isn’t). And no, I’m not vegan I’m just not so brainwashed I cannot imagine empathy for animals.

            • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              16 hours ago

              Implying that comparing humans to “livestock”, a word whose purpose itself is to demean, is “cheapening” human life then yes that was absolutely said

      • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        7 hours ago

        If you give me a quick death by a bolt through the brain, you can do whatever you want with what’s left.

        I’ll agree that factory farming is abhorrent though. Maybe try something about being locked into a small box not even large enough to turn around in, stuck next to your own filth, etc etc.

        • KombatWombat@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          58 minutes ago

          99% of meat comes from factory farms in the US. For Europe, it’s around 75%. Unless you know where the meat came from and how it treats its animals, you can safely presume the source animal was tortured for it. Calling factory farming abhorrent doesn’t mean much if you still regularly pay for it to continue.