Every day I get more thankful for my hand-me-down car. It has no heated seats or anything fancy, but that also means no subscriptions, no wifi tracking/stalking, no digital touch screen over physical buttons, etc. All I’ve ever done is use a clip holder on my AC vent for my phone, so I’m used to it. It’s given me time to see how others feel about Android Auto and features in newer cars, and I can make an informed decision whenever my baby decides to kick the bucket. Hopefully I can get something not too stalkerish nor with subscriptions.
I am always surprised I don’t hear more discussion about Automotive Grade Linux.
Something something year of the Linux car
I have equally bad experiences with both Android Auto and Apple Carplay. I don’t really want either and am fine with what I’ve got (only 1/3 of the cars I own even has Carplay/Android Auto). I mostly dislike how it’s been implemented with “safety controls” that require the phone to be plugged into the infotainment center in some cars and the requirement that I only connect it while at a stop with the car in park. If someone is driving with me and they want to change to their phone I have to pull over and that’s stupid.
The infotainment centers themselves with their stupid touch screens and lack of buttons are where my real problems start, and the end with the tracking BS and telemetry data. You can keep the new cars. I don’t want them.
I tried Android Auto back when it was first coming out and it was such a slow buggy piece of shit that I have always just looked at my phone for directions instead of connect to Android Auto even when the car supports it.
You should try it again. It’s exponentially better than it was when it first launched almost 11 years ago.
I wish I could develop my own apps on my own car. I mean I own the car… why can’t I “sideload” my own created apps? Their apps are sht anyways.
It kind of makes sense to not allow people to do that - just imagine what horrors people will create that totally will kill people. Cars are dangerous.
100% fearmongering bullshit designed to erode property rights. Cars have been completely “open” throughout their entire history until recently, and the problems caused by irresponsible owner modification have been both negligible and entirely acceptable (compared to the alternative of going full-blown police state to stop them).
Make no mistake: full-blown police state is exactly what you’re arguing for when you suggest people shouldn’t have the right to modify their own fucking property!
People have been able to change their own brake pads for as long as cars existed.
There are two things hidden here:
- People totally got killed by doing their own maintenance
- There is a difference between physical maintenance and, well, you know that people will install some buggy self driving app
the entertainment system should have zero access to anything that controls the movement of the car. androidauto apps can’t implement self driving functions either. if it’s possible, the car manufacturer was incredibly irresponsible and needs to be sued into oblivion. see, the actual problem is not that irresponsible users could implement “self driving apps”, but that the entertainment system lacks any real security, is filled with vulnerabilities, and often even have remote access capabilities with bluetooth/wifi/cellular, and bad actors could load malware wirelessly that would kill the passengers and whoever else on the road.
Not only is is possible, there are many CAN bus attacks from the entertainment system I’ve seen over the years. That, along with your noted remote attacks makes modern cars a nightmare. It doesn’t help that manufacturers cheap out on basic protections to save a few bucks (see the Hyundai boys and the lack of an installed engine interlock).
yeah, unfortunately. but do androidauto apps have access to the CAN bus? I would at least hope that this platform would not grant access to it
One would hope. But given we’ve seen CAN bus attacks over basic radios, I wish I could say I was confident they’ve taken those basic precautions. Car hacking is one of those topics that can keep you up at night when you think about how lax some manufacturers are to save a buck.
Lacking government regulation in the largest markets, proper separation will never be enforced, because it isn’t to the manufacturers’ benefits. And that probably isn’t going to happen until hacked infotainment systems kill enough people to draw attention, unfortunately.
People totally got killed by doing their own maintenance
People have totally gotten killed from maintenance done by a “professional” (new kid on the job at the shop.)
I watch YouTuber CarCareNut and he’s shown many stupid mistakes made by dealerships.
I assure you I take greater care doing repairs than a tech who will get yelled at if they don’t finish the job fast.
My take on Android Auto (I’m sure everyone wants to hear)
pros:
- free to choose the maps app you want (OsmAnd, Organic Maps, Google Maps or anything)
- stream music for the app you want
- decent voice control for maps and spotify
- decent integration with some EV charging apps, you can find and initiate chargers from the dashboard
- you can write your own Android Auto apps
cons:
- Android Auto app is very invasive, polluting phone with stupid notifications
- the standard is shit. Android Auto doesn’t work work with Android Go phones but it’s not specified anywhere in the documentation, wireless Android Auto only works with latest android but it’s also not specified anywhere
- it’s controlled by Google and there are no alternative implementations
My solution so far is to use cheap, secondary phone for AA (which was hard to find because of the stupid limitations). If someone would create a open AA client not controlled by Google I would put it on my primary phone. AA should now work with Graphene OS so I may try to set it up in separate profile some day.
On my GrapheneOS phone I have AA set up in a work profile that is paused 90% of the time. It works without any issues. Or at least no more issues than AA ever had.
I used to champion AA because every car just had that shitty apple connection.
Now at least we have AA. But it took so long, that google went from a good company to just as evil as Apple, so we have two asshole giants to chose from.
We need a Linux open source alternative for phones… But I’ve been told it’ll never happen because the hardware is locked down and too different to be able to run custom roms…
I don’t know what the solution is
For usability the solution is using some custom ROM like Graphene OS or iode. They support AA now.
For privacy the solution is to use a very old car with no infotainment. Modern cars have telemetry and always on connectivity you can’t control. Even Linux phones will not help with that. We would need open source cars which will never happen.
We would need open source cars which will never happen.
:'(
Rent seeking behavior. They want subscription revenue instead of wanting to deliver what consumers want.
For the most part, it’s believed that carmakers are doing way with Android Auto support simply as a way to expand their control over user data. Because Android Auto utilizes your phone’s connection, all of the data that runs through it goes straight to Android and the phone manufacturer. So, by utilizing built-in systems, the car manufacturers would indeed be able to collect more data about how you use the systems in place, while also possibly getting more money out of you through subscriptions.
You are unfortunately correct.
Honestly, I think consumers allowing manufacturers to start integrating screens into cars was a mistake.
Knobs and dials are way easier to nevigate blind (whilst focusing on the road like we’re meant to), and none of that stops you plugging in your own third party device for other features, or replacing the headboard yourself.
Giant tablets with complex menus are dangerous to drivers, and only serve to milk the consumer for things they already had access to in their car as standard not 10 years ago.
The consumers did not allow anything. This is the crap they were eventually forced to buy due to lack of any other options. Electro-mechanical-chemical vehicle with a delco radio should be enough. We adopt new tech because it exists, not because we should.
Yes. It needs heavy regulation, physical buttons is all the driver should have access to.
We also need to ban subscription services in vehicles.
Consumers cannot be trusted to spend responsibly and look out for their best interests.
I’ll just take a bluetooth battery powered speaker in my car if they keep locking it down
You also have a Bluetooth FM transmitter, so they phone audio becomes just another reason station. You can even get a Bluetooth remote control for common media functions to put on the dash.
Back to the days of rip out the head unit and stick one in that does have the features you want?
That’s another reason the manufacturers are increasingly locking vehicle features behind the touchscreen. If you buy a 3rd party replacement, you can’t control the AC.
I just had a little magnetic clip for my air vent where I could attach my phone and put up a map.
I’d sooner go back to doing that than use a “Gemini-based AI assistant” in my fucking car.
I imagine they’ll try to make this increasingly difficult; maybe even impossible.
It already is for a lot of modern cars. Especially EVs. I imagine they are so tied into the functionality of the car that it makes the vehicle impossible to drive without the OEM headunit.
Couldn’t a savvy user just find an exploitable firmware revision, never connect the vehicle to the internet, and install aftermarket software or hardware to bypass the authentication checks? It would be more of a pain in the ass than the previous drop in system, but I’d imagine it’s possible.
The vehicle comes from the factory connected to the internet.
You’d have to find the exploit before they do, and it would be hard to replicate because once they find out, the only cars vulnerable to your exploit are ones manufactured before the patch who have been disconnected from the internet (which is like 2 cars).
It’s theoretically possible but very hard to replicate. And on top of that theres always the risk of the car manufacturer voiding the warranty on your $50k vehicle and/or cozying up to your insurance company and convincing them any damage is a result of you preventing their systems from running as intended.
It’s a messy high risk low reward game to play. Better option is to just buy a different car if you can.
Depends on how heavily things are locked down, and how much money this tech-savvy person is willing to risk on a bricked automobile.
If the auto industry successfully locks 99.9% of their buyers into their walled garden by making it such a pain in the ass to bypass it, they’ve already won.
I doubt it will be completely impossible - we’d just be returning to a situation similar to game consoles and modchips - any aftermarket parts need to lie to the “authentication” checks in place first.
I would expect that certain aftermarket groups would specialize based on popular models, maybe even prioritizing models designed to be interoperable with others design and parts wise (Subaru and perhaps Toyota comes to mind).
If it doesn’t affect emissions those mod chips will not violate your warrantee - magnuson-moss was writen decades ago to protect replacing your factory radio. There are a number of other laws around third party access to car diagnostics.
Are you talking about music/NAV systems or CEOs?
I’d rip out the touch screen SO fast
And replace it with what? You can’t just hot glue knobs on the center console and expect them to work.
That’s the “why I can’t do it” part.
But if it was possible to get knobs and buttons for everything and a small-ish screen only for info, I’d take that. I’d pay for that. Touch screens are dangerous. I’d at most be comfortable to swipe on the screen to show different infos like GPS, temperature/airflow, music/radio. Otherwise I want buttons and knobs with little lights.
And then lose control of numerous functions of your car.
It’s simply not an option in modern cars.That’s the “why I can’t do it” part.
But if it was possible to get knobs and buttons for everything and a small-ish screen only for info, I’d take that. I’d pay for that. Touch screens are dangerous. I’d at most be comfortable to swipe on the screen to show different infos like GPS, temperature/airflow, music/radio. Otherwise I want buttons and knobs with little lights.
I won’t buy a car without CarPlay.
My current car has it and I love it. So I imagine Android users feel the same way.
If there is truly no option, then my phone is getting the window/airvent mount option.
I’ll never subscribe to their bs.
My car is from the 2010s.
I bought a GPS looking screen for $40 that has android auto and carplay. I already have Bluetooth added onto the radio for audio streaming.
Works perfectly for GPS off of my phone and as a media controller.
Only thing I’m missing is steering wheel controls.
I’m in a country where stuff in the car is not regulated as much as the US.
One of my ride share drivers had basically a 13” android tablet instead of the stock radio in the car 😂
It was all hooked up to the car to act as a legit part of the car.
In the us laws from the 1970’s protect third party radios.
Yeah this is the kind of shit I was looking forward to when I got into driving in the 2000s. But then car manufacturers started doing thier own non standard radios.
Then the car mod communities made kits to for a dual bay fit.
Then the corpos made radios required to service the car…
No regulations to protect the consumers let them do what they want.
The car part of the car should be completely independent of the entertainment part of the car. Fuckers.
The line can get blurry when you talk about EVs but protections should still be possible.
The third parties would win sueing car makers for requiring the radio for diagnostics. anti-monopoly and warranty laws protect moding you car.
Yeah I gave up on radio customization when I got a car that didn’t have a dual bin and didn’t keep up. Looking at newer cars and barely anything can be swapped/upgraded it seems.
Because GM sucks.
People aren’t asking for much. People just want their phone navigation and music controls displayed onto the infotainment. Won’t consider any car that cannot afford me this tiny bit of convenience for the sake of nickel and diming me.
And if every car manufacturer starts forcing me to adopt their own stupid software I’ll just buy a fucking phone holder.
And GM has shitty reliability anyways.
the only integration i want between my phone and my car is a 3.5mm audio jack. i’m driving a 2016 right now and am dreading replacing it because i doubt i’ll be able to find anything without this “infotainment” crap. i thought i had read that those were being phased out because consumers unilaterally hated them, so reading the opposite here is a huge bummer
What you want is the upcoming Slate EV. It’s cheap, looks like an old Bronco, comes in 1 color, and there’s no factory infotainment system. There aren’t even any speakers, but the specifications are all open and it’s designed to easily allow you to install your own (or get a shop to do it).
ooh duly noted thank you
Spread the word too! When it comes up.
I feel like a ton of people are in your situation but don’t know something like Slate exists.
Same with a lot of products TBH, especially software. Discoverability is really hard these days, with so much spam everywhere.
There’s plenty of older cars sitting in used lots. You can avoid newer cars if you buy one of those or simply keep up with the maintenance on your vehicle. Even if the engine dies, its replaceable.
For now. Those used cars are rusting and otherwise wearing out.
Rust is repairable unless the frame’s structural integrity has been compromised. That much rust is an oddity, even in the rust belt. Many owners undercoat their vehicles which significantly prolongs the life of the vehicle.
If you’re really against purchasing a modern car, as I am, you still have plenty of options.
A new car is going to cost you thousands anyway. Why not just invest that money in a car you already like?
I’m afraid the best I can give you is a proprietary, always online, underpowered, half-assed piece of spyware that will probably end up costing you a yearly subscription fee if you don’t want advertisements and get a mandatory, irreversible AI integration over-the-air upgrade 1 month after you buy it.
Unironically, you’re missing out.
Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are both just ways to project the smartphone already in your pocket onto an additional screen (like plugging a second monitor to your laptop or PC).
Manufacturers like GM and Tesla hate it because it stops your data from being readily collected and stored with the purpose of building up a profile of ‘you’ that they can then sell to advertisers and insurance companies.
Now if only manufacturers had the good sense to keep things like climate control as physical switches - that’s my own personal bugbear. 🤬
Way to make people hate your cars even more.
Why I like Android Auto:
- I can plan my route on my phone at home and see the map on the big screen instead the little phone ui, or worse putting in the adress manually with the keyboard wheel in Korean instead of copy and pasting it from the Element chat
- I already have all my music on my phone, I don’t want to copy and organize it again for hours in my car
- I already have integration with many apps on my phone, I don’t want to set everything up again on the car, especially I can’t copy and paste my long ass passwords from my KeePassXC into the car and need to painstakingly put in every password with their clunky keyboard, if they even have a keyboard.
I could go on forever. But as long as I can connect bluetooth and set up my phone somewhere so I can see the map while driving I’ll be OK. The worst part, at work what I do is car infotainment system software, but it never has any of the features I would want from a car.
Plus if I rent a car that also has Android Auto I only have to pair it and all my stuff is there.
