In all seriousness, it is mostly cis men doing this.
edit: this was meant to be a joke, but honestly the amount of mansplaining in this thread and the responses below this comment has unfortunately altered this into a true statement. What have you all done?
Since men are still getting angry and messaging me:
No I couldn’t, because everyone would think it’s just some white supremacist/manosphere/redpill nonsense, and likely the only people who would show up would be those types anyway.
Literally every other demographic gets their own “spaces” and “identity groups,” and if a white man shows up to those they’re seen as invading where they don’t belong. In mixed-identity spaces, white men are sidelined because they’re the “oppressors” and nobody wants to hear their input, perspective, or opinion. But if white men form an identity group, then everyone assumes it’s about racism and sexism. And if a white man self-isolates, then he gets called an incel and a creep.
There’s literally no good option available other than to be a self-effacing fly on the wall who passively agrees with everything said by a woman or person of color and never critiques, questions, seeks clarity, nor adds nuance.
Women get “women’s spaces,” but “men’s spaces” are to be deplored. BIPOC get “BIPOC spaces,” but “white spaces” are to be abhorred. LGBTQ+ get “queer spaces” but “straight spaces” are to be despised.
And if people say “all spaces are straight white male spaces by default,” then why is it unacceptable to boot anyone else out of those spaces? If someone of a different demographic shows up and starts demanding the narrative/vibe/atmosphere shifts to suit their sensibilities, anyone who doesn’t comply is seen as a racist/sexist/homophobe. But careful not to walk on too many eggshells, because it’s actually offensive to even imply that someone might be easily offended.
Literally the only other option is to hang out in actual racist/sexist/homophobic spaces, which I don’t want to do because I detest those types of people. I just want a space where I can hang out and feel welcome and taken seriously while retaining a modicum of self-respect. But this default view of “white man = oppressor (unless gay)” kinda gets in the way of that. And no one cares if I complain about it, or even believes I could have anything worth complaining about.
That’s what I mean by “white working class men are being excluded from class solidarity.” Maybe don’t force them into racially homogenous echo chambers and movements like trumpism won’t gain any momentum?
Did you miss the part where I said that I don’t either? I’d rather wither away in isolation than hang out with maga types.
In terms of sheer numbers, however, when a large portion of a certain demographic are made to feel rejected from mainstream society, they tend to form a counterculture. In this case, a large portion of the maga base might not have become so vile if they had found validation and acceptance anywhere else. I’m not saying the maga base wouldn’t be vile, but their numbers would be much smaller without anyone to recruit.
Do you have a friend group? Is it culturally diverse? Do you feel respected within it? Or if it’s all white dudes, does anyone ever suggest it’s too homogenous?
Or are you a loner like me? If so, how do you feel about that? Does anyone ever treat you like your isolation is a moral failing on your part?
In terms of sheer numbers, however, when a large portion of a certain demographic are made to feel rejected from mainstream society, they tend to form a counterculture.
Like queer people and people of color and stuff? Agreed. They are marginalized far too often.
In this case, a large portion of the maga base might not have become so vile if they had found validation and acceptance anywhere else.
Those do sound like personal and moral failings. I’m so sad that I’m lonely that imma vote for the racist pedophile. That’ll show em!
I’m not saying the maga base wouldn’t be vile, but their numbers would be much smaller without anyone to recruit.
Their base is so large because there are so many bigots. The Nazi rally in NY? The people throwing rocks at black kids trying to go to school? The ones who murder trans people? Where do you think they went over the course of our nations history? Did they cease to be? Change their ways? Or pass their bullshit down so their kids can do it too, just more in the dl.
Do you have a friend group?
Yes.
Is it culturally diverse?
Yes.
Do you feel respected within it?
Pretty much. That’s why we are friends.
Or if it’s all white dudes, does anyone ever suggest it’s too homogenous?
Lol, why on earth would I only hang out with white men?
Or are you a loner like me?
I’m pretty comfortable being alone because my job is quite social. I love the ability to throw on some tunes when the wife and kids are out of the house and get some work done.
If so, how do you feel about that?
If I was unhappy I would change something. I just moved out of a red state last month and I’m ecstatic. I left behind a bunch of the sorts of racists and other bigots that you’re talking about.
Does anyone ever treat you like your isolation is a moral failing on your part?
Not really. Why would they? Am I being destructive to them or myself? But if it came to that, therapy sounds like a good option.
Fact is, you can blame any minority groups that you want for your personal feelings or failings. Being a bit isolated isn’t, strictly speaking, a moral failing. Turning that anger against people who are already marginalized by society is a wild moral failing. No one has to vote for a rapist and felon because they are sad. People do that when they have gotten over the cognitive dissonance required to become a terrible person.
Life isn’t about never having ups and downs. It is about how we respond to our own bullshit.
The truth is I’m far more worried about my long-term illness than I am about being lonely. I can literally walk into the record/video game/comic store right now and chat it up with people rn.
Well not right now because my body is acting up, but you get the point.
Like queer people and people of color and stuff? Agreed. They are marginalized far too often.
I agree with that, but I disagree with the common sentiment that it makes it okay to do the same to cishet white men.
Those do sound like personal and moral failings.
I also agree that voting for trump would be a personal moral failing, and I despise people who do that. What I’m saying is that voting for trump might not have had the allure that it did for some people if his message that “it’s okay to be white now” didn’t have the effect on them that it did
Their base is so large because there are so many bigots.
The examples you describe are undeniably terrible people, and those actions are atrocious. There’s no excusing that, and I’m not attempting to. But among the 77 million people who voted for trump in 2024, those examples are a small percentage. How many trump voters were merely disaffected people who felt like they had no place until they were welcomed into social circles where covert racism is normalized? It’s a slippery slope, especially in the age of social media.
There’s a reason right-wing propaganda is so effective at what it does. I’m talking about the radicalization of large portions of the populace. How else do you explain the sudden shift of gen z toward the right? Clearly it held some attraction for them. Do you mean to tell me all those people were just inherently bad and destined to vote that way regardless of life circumstances?
Radicalization doesn’t start from “they were born evil.” It starts from nefarious actors targeting vulnerable groups and individuals, and in this case they found a wealth of disaffected youths, most of whom were cishet white males, who felt like the world was leaving them behind and that there wasn’t a place for them in society anymore. Do you think that messaging would have worked if it didn’t ring true for them at some level?
Mind you, I have some experience with investigating patterns of radicalization, so I’m not simply talking out of my ass here.
And again, I’m not attempting to excuse trump voters. I find them all deplorable. What I’m arguing is that there was a set of circumstances that led people in large numbers down the rabbit holes that led them to become trump supporters, and those circumstances can’t be narrowed down to just simply “they were born evil and were always going to be evil.” That mentality doesn’t help anybody, and it doesn’t help solve the problem. We have to look at all of the contributing factors in order to understand the problem if we’re ever going to remedy it. Although at this point I’m really beginning to wonder whether it’s past the point where it’s remediable.
Do you feel respected within it?
Pretty much. That’s why we are friends.
Well I’m happy for you that you found a friend group that respects you and doesn’t constantly hold your whiteness or your maleness over your head as if it’s a moral failing for which you owe them something.
Lol, why on earth would I only hang out with white men?
Only if everyone else rejects you for being a white man. Racists have other reasons, but I wasn’t under that impression about you, don’t worry
Turning that anger against people who are already marginalized by society is a wild moral failing.
Again, I agree. However, why is it different when people turn their anger against white men as a whole? For the record, I’m not just talking about racists and sexists when I say “white men.” A big problem with this discussion is that whenever I say “white men,” people seem to think I mean “racists and misogynists.” I don’t, and that’s a false equivalence. I don’t know how many times I have to repeat myself by saying there’s no justification for racist or sexist behavior. The thing I take issue with is how it’s seemingly okay to blame white men as a whole for the racism and misogyny of a relatively small proportion of them.
This whole discussion started because someone mentioned class solidarity and another person mentioned “except for cis white men” or something to that effect. And that seems to be a very common pattern these days.
I mean, I went to college not that long ago and people thought it was white supremacy that I got better grades than them. I’ve seen some of the papers they turned in. They didn’t like it if I corrected their grammar/spelling/punctuation during the peer editing process, they thought that made me racist. I mean, if you want to be functionally illiterate that’s fine, but then don’t blame me for getting a better grade on an assignment. But no, if a white man gets the best grade in the class then the only possible explanation must be institutional racism and patriarchy. They completely invalidated my strengths, which were intelligence and meticulous attention to detail. The time and effort I put into writing a decent paper didn’t count for anything. The stress of being a perfectionist didn’t count for anything. People hated me because I was a white man and I got good grades, and that was unacceptable to them. Nothing else mattered, because the very act of me doing well was enough evidence to them to casually throw around labels like “racism” and “misogyny.” I couldn’t possibly have done as well if the system wasn’t rigged in my favor, as far as they were concerned.
It was pretty insulting, especially since I was never good at sports. Like, I wouldn’t get upset if you beat me at basketball. I’m used to losing, it’s fine. At least let me have my intelligence, don’t take that away from me.
I sorta let them win though, cause I was so afraid of being called a racist or whatever, so instead of continuing in academia I killed a lot of braincells with drugs and alcohol. Maybe I’d be less racist in their eyes then? Nope, it wasn’t enough. Nothing was ever enough. So fuck it, you know?
Imagine if a man were to make a “joke” at women’s expense, and then when women get angry in the comments he says “see, women are sensitive/emotional creatures after all!”
It wouldn’t be the “gotcha” that you seem to think this is. So tell me, what’s different?
Also, just because the people responsible for the turmoil are overwhelmingly cishet men, does not mean that cishet men writ large are overwhelmingly responsible for it. That’s painting with a very large brush, and it should be no surprise that people got upset about it.
When else is it ever okay to blame an entire demographic for the actions of a very small percentage of them? What are working class white men supposed to feel when you lump them into the same category as the oligarchs with such sweeping generalizations? Do you see how that might impede class solidarity?
Also, “/s” is an abbreviation of a word, which everyone on the internet understands and knows what it means. That doesn’t change the fact that you said you were serious, only to backtrack and say you were joking.
Imagine if a man were to make a “joke” at women’s expense, and then when women get angry in the comments he says “see, women are sensitive/emotional creatures after all!”
Having been around since 1978 i assure you this this was the case for a very long time and still very much is the case in parts of the internet.
Well in those cases, it’s wrong. And in this case, it’s still wrong. Just because it’s happened the one way, doesn’t make the other way okay. Both are wrong.
The equivalency stands. And if you don’t think so, then you’re a hypocrite.
Not saying one is right, but there are a lot of things you need to learn beyond your kindergarten level of right and wrong about power dynamics and how actions and comments impact differently across these strata. The fact I had to point out to you that men denigrating women is the majority of western history and am now also pointing out there’s a sharp uptick very loudly occurring right now makes me think you are not in a position to start screaming hypocrisy because some rando talked shit about cis men on a single lemmy thread.
Note this: I never said it’s okay for men to denigrate women. It’s not.
Note this also: you’re essentially arguing that it’s okay for women to denigrate men. It’s not.
And for you to insist that one is okay while the other isn’t, is called a double standard. You haven’t examined your own biases, because you think you don’t even have to.
If that’s your line of reasoning, then I’m not going to take you seriously. You’re no better than a misogynist.
I’m agender, and this person is reminding me of all the mean girls who bullied me for not being femme enough. It’s the same kind of middle school logic that said that me not wearing makeup made me a man, and that I ought to kms.
I honestly think that assholes follow the standard deviation pattern in humans, regardless of biology. It’s only when you start looking at categories that can self-select for behavior that you start seeing an over-representation of them.
I do disagree on that! The internet is a self-selecting group, and I’m gonna blame Meta, Alphabet, et all for creating algorithms that reward asshole behavior and caused an over-representation of assholes online.
Furthermore, I believe that non-assholes have the capacity to temporarily act like assholes when exposed to stress. Everybody can have a bad day, but that a few isolated incidents of assholery doesn’t make you an asshole.
Okay, ngl most of these comments are just funny stupid man shit, but now you’re calling me a bigot for literally pointing out indisputable facts about a patriarchal society.
Chuds are not your friend, they will not reward you for siding with them.
Goddamn, imagine if I were to go around describing feminism as “stupid woman shit” (I wouldn’t, because actually I agree with a lot of feminist philosophy such as bell hooks and Carol Gilligan, whom you’ve apparently never heard of).
But let’s just say I did. Imagine your reaction. And then go look in a fucking mirror. Newsflash: you are a bigot.
And then to call your generalizations and assumptions “indisputable facts” is a new level of arrogance. Do you even hear yourself?
There is also zero reward for siding with people who think that if you’re not a woman, you’re a man.
Turns out, what you’ve got in your pants has nothing to do with who you are as a human, and I’ve got penis-having friends who don’t judge me for not being femme.
Interesting, could you explain how making fun of cis men equates to transphobia and TERFs?
I see comments like these and I fear for queer youth who do not understand how their oppression functions structurally. Making fun of cis men, who are indeed in charge of every institution this meme is referencing, is not gender essentialism.
Because it’s the same reductive binary bullshit they do. If you’re in this category, you’re bad, lets just ignore the rest of it because it doesn’t fit the black and white thinking.
I also don’t fit the black and white thinking, ergo you won’t like me either.
How do you justify in your mind that it’s okay to make fun of a cis man who has never been anywhere near wealth or power in his entire life, just because most people near those levers happen to have the same genitalia as them?
That sounds a lot like gender essentialism, no matter how you say that it isn’t.
I’m not recycling any talking points, whatever tf a “chud” is. My points were valid, and since you refuse to address them rationally and instead resort to insulting me (and half the world’s population at that), I can only assume you don’t have a valid response.
You would pout if someone made light of misogyny, and yet here you are making light of misandry. Are you aware of your double-standard, or completely blind to it?
Imagine a man making fun of women for something stereotypical, and imagine the response you would have. Then ask yourself, are you really any better than those “men” you despise so much?
Like, honestly, I’m politically left and believe in social progress and egalitarianism and all that, but comments like yours make me really not want to care about the oppression of people like you.
According to this, it’s rural, non-black christians doing this. Men were more likely to vote Trump, but the effect is nowhere near as strong as the urban/rural, christian/atheist and black/non-black divide.
Granted, the billionaires who benefit from this are almost all cis men, but non-billionaire women have been duped nearly the same as much as non-billionaire men.
True. If they didn’t rely on small and unrepresentative samples (or often the imagination of themselves and others) to judge broad population groups and topics of discussion, they by definition wouldn’t be bigots.
Triggering the boys’ club on Lemmy has accidentally become a hobby of mine. All I do is point out misogyny, which there is a lot of on here, and the club decends upon me. At a certain point the downvotes and insults become cathartic because they’re just proving my point. They never even try to convince me that they aren’t misogynists, it’s just pure insults. At least you got some honest discourse mixed in with the bullshit, lol.
As a cis white man, I’m just glad to finally get credit for something. DEI and woke has made it really difficult for me to be rewarded for other people’s progress in spite of my mere passive existence being an active stumbling block in the path of those who made the poor choice of being born as they were.
I’m sorry that you’ve just now realized you exist in a system that connects you to a social order you have little power over, next few months are going to be rough on you I tell’ya.
Although, I wonder if there’s a word for the conditions that someone would have to exist under to make it possible to come this far in life without ever being forced to learn about this because of their advantageous position in that system. 🧐
In all seriousness, it is mostly cis men doing this.
edit: this was meant to be a joke, but honestly the amount of mansplaining in this thread and the responses below this comment has unfortunately altered this into a true statement. What have you all done?
Since men are still getting angry and messaging me:
You’re doing the thing.
do i get to do the “i swear it’s everyone but me” dance or do you want to do it
I guess “class solidarity” only applies to everyone but cis men.
And then when cis men say their identities are being attacked/invalidated, everyone’s like “nuh uh, you don’t even have an identity!”
If it makes you feel better you could host a parade or gathering or something.
No I couldn’t, because everyone would think it’s just some white supremacist/manosphere/redpill nonsense, and likely the only people who would show up would be those types anyway.
Literally every other demographic gets their own “spaces” and “identity groups,” and if a white man shows up to those they’re seen as invading where they don’t belong. In mixed-identity spaces, white men are sidelined because they’re the “oppressors” and nobody wants to hear their input, perspective, or opinion. But if white men form an identity group, then everyone assumes it’s about racism and sexism. And if a white man self-isolates, then he gets called an incel and a creep.
There’s literally no good option available other than to be a self-effacing fly on the wall who passively agrees with everything said by a woman or person of color and never critiques, questions, seeks clarity, nor adds nuance.
Women get “women’s spaces,” but “men’s spaces” are to be deplored. BIPOC get “BIPOC spaces,” but “white spaces” are to be abhorred. LGBTQ+ get “queer spaces” but “straight spaces” are to be despised.
And if people say “all spaces are straight white male spaces by default,” then why is it unacceptable to boot anyone else out of those spaces? If someone of a different demographic shows up and starts demanding the narrative/vibe/atmosphere shifts to suit their sensibilities, anyone who doesn’t comply is seen as a racist/sexist/homophobe. But careful not to walk on too many eggshells, because it’s actually offensive to even imply that someone might be easily offended.
Literally the only other option is to hang out in actual racist/sexist/homophobic spaces, which I don’t want to do because I detest those types of people. I just want a space where I can hang out and feel welcome and taken seriously while retaining a modicum of self-respect. But this default view of “white man = oppressor (unless gay)” kinda gets in the way of that. And no one cares if I complain about it, or even believes I could have anything worth complaining about.
That’s what I mean by “white working class men are being excluded from class solidarity.” Maybe don’t force them into racially homogenous echo chambers and movements like trumpism won’t gain any momentum?
Lol. “They are making me hang out with racists and homophobes” is a remarkably strange thing to say.
I’m cis and I’ve never felt the need to accommodate racists and homophobes.
Should I feel more attacked?
Did you miss the part where I said that I don’t either? I’d rather wither away in isolation than hang out with maga types.
In terms of sheer numbers, however, when a large portion of a certain demographic are made to feel rejected from mainstream society, they tend to form a counterculture. In this case, a large portion of the maga base might not have become so vile if they had found validation and acceptance anywhere else. I’m not saying the maga base wouldn’t be vile, but their numbers would be much smaller without anyone to recruit.
Do you have a friend group? Is it culturally diverse? Do you feel respected within it? Or if it’s all white dudes, does anyone ever suggest it’s too homogenous?
Or are you a loner like me? If so, how do you feel about that? Does anyone ever treat you like your isolation is a moral failing on your part?
I genuinely would like to know.
Like queer people and people of color and stuff? Agreed. They are marginalized far too often.
Those do sound like personal and moral failings. I’m so sad that I’m lonely that imma vote for the racist pedophile. That’ll show em!
Their base is so large because there are so many bigots. The Nazi rally in NY? The people throwing rocks at black kids trying to go to school? The ones who murder trans people? Where do you think they went over the course of our nations history? Did they cease to be? Change their ways? Or pass their bullshit down so their kids can do it too, just more in the dl.
Yes.
Yes.
Pretty much. That’s why we are friends.
Lol, why on earth would I only hang out with white men?
I’m pretty comfortable being alone because my job is quite social. I love the ability to throw on some tunes when the wife and kids are out of the house and get some work done.
If I was unhappy I would change something. I just moved out of a red state last month and I’m ecstatic. I left behind a bunch of the sorts of racists and other bigots that you’re talking about.
Not really. Why would they? Am I being destructive to them or myself? But if it came to that, therapy sounds like a good option.
Fact is, you can blame any minority groups that you want for your personal feelings or failings. Being a bit isolated isn’t, strictly speaking, a moral failing. Turning that anger against people who are already marginalized by society is a wild moral failing. No one has to vote for a rapist and felon because they are sad. People do that when they have gotten over the cognitive dissonance required to become a terrible person.
Life isn’t about never having ups and downs. It is about how we respond to our own bullshit.
The truth is I’m far more worried about my long-term illness than I am about being lonely. I can literally walk into the record/video game/comic store right now and chat it up with people rn.
Well not right now because my body is acting up, but you get the point.
I agree with that, but I disagree with the common sentiment that it makes it okay to do the same to cishet white men.
I also agree that voting for trump would be a personal moral failing, and I despise people who do that. What I’m saying is that voting for trump might not have had the allure that it did for some people if his message that “it’s okay to be white now” didn’t have the effect on them that it did
The examples you describe are undeniably terrible people, and those actions are atrocious. There’s no excusing that, and I’m not attempting to. But among the 77 million people who voted for trump in 2024, those examples are a small percentage. How many trump voters were merely disaffected people who felt like they had no place until they were welcomed into social circles where covert racism is normalized? It’s a slippery slope, especially in the age of social media.
There’s a reason right-wing propaganda is so effective at what it does. I’m talking about the radicalization of large portions of the populace. How else do you explain the sudden shift of gen z toward the right? Clearly it held some attraction for them. Do you mean to tell me all those people were just inherently bad and destined to vote that way regardless of life circumstances?
Radicalization doesn’t start from “they were born evil.” It starts from nefarious actors targeting vulnerable groups and individuals, and in this case they found a wealth of disaffected youths, most of whom were cishet white males, who felt like the world was leaving them behind and that there wasn’t a place for them in society anymore. Do you think that messaging would have worked if it didn’t ring true for them at some level?
Mind you, I have some experience with investigating patterns of radicalization, so I’m not simply talking out of my ass here.
And again, I’m not attempting to excuse trump voters. I find them all deplorable. What I’m arguing is that there was a set of circumstances that led people in large numbers down the rabbit holes that led them to become trump supporters, and those circumstances can’t be narrowed down to just simply “they were born evil and were always going to be evil.” That mentality doesn’t help anybody, and it doesn’t help solve the problem. We have to look at all of the contributing factors in order to understand the problem if we’re ever going to remedy it. Although at this point I’m really beginning to wonder whether it’s past the point where it’s remediable.
Well I’m happy for you that you found a friend group that respects you and doesn’t constantly hold your whiteness or your maleness over your head as if it’s a moral failing for which you owe them something.
Only if everyone else rejects you for being a white man. Racists have other reasons, but I wasn’t under that impression about you, don’t worry
Again, I agree. However, why is it different when people turn their anger against white men as a whole? For the record, I’m not just talking about racists and sexists when I say “white men.” A big problem with this discussion is that whenever I say “white men,” people seem to think I mean “racists and misogynists.” I don’t, and that’s a false equivalence. I don’t know how many times I have to repeat myself by saying there’s no justification for racist or sexist behavior. The thing I take issue with is how it’s seemingly okay to blame white men as a whole for the racism and misogyny of a relatively small proportion of them.
This whole discussion started because someone mentioned class solidarity and another person mentioned “except for cis white men” or something to that effect. And that seems to be a very common pattern these days.
I mean, I went to college not that long ago and people thought it was white supremacy that I got better grades than them. I’ve seen some of the papers they turned in. They didn’t like it if I corrected their grammar/spelling/punctuation during the peer editing process, they thought that made me racist. I mean, if you want to be functionally illiterate that’s fine, but then don’t blame me for getting a better grade on an assignment. But no, if a white man gets the best grade in the class then the only possible explanation must be institutional racism and patriarchy. They completely invalidated my strengths, which were intelligence and meticulous attention to detail. The time and effort I put into writing a decent paper didn’t count for anything. The stress of being a perfectionist didn’t count for anything. People hated me because I was a white man and I got good grades, and that was unacceptable to them. Nothing else mattered, because the very act of me doing well was enough evidence to them to casually throw around labels like “racism” and “misogyny.” I couldn’t possibly have done as well if the system wasn’t rigged in my favor, as far as they were concerned.
It was pretty insulting, especially since I was never good at sports. Like, I wouldn’t get upset if you beat me at basketball. I’m used to losing, it’s fine. At least let me have my intelligence, don’t take that away from me.
I sorta let them win though, cause I was so afraid of being called a racist or whatever, so instead of continuing in academia I killed a lot of braincells with drugs and alcohol. Maybe I’d be less racist in their eyes then? Nope, it wasn’t enough. Nothing was ever enough. So fuck it, you know?
Oh, is that the joke?
Since when does “in all seriousness” mean “actually not seriously at all, and this is totally a joke”?
Do words mean nothing anymore? There’s even a “/s” specifically for instances when you mean the opposite of what you say, and you didn’t use it.
That’s on you, dude.
Oh my, you misunderstood. I don’t care if people didn’t get it, that so many men got angry was just an opportunity to make the second joke above.
A joke is also not necessarily untrue, it is a fact that cishet men are overwhelmingly responsible for the turmoil this meme references.
“/s” would also be an abbreviation, not the word itself. Since y’know, you’re concerned with the meanings of words.
Imagine if a man were to make a “joke” at women’s expense, and then when women get angry in the comments he says “see, women are sensitive/emotional creatures after all!”
It wouldn’t be the “gotcha” that you seem to think this is. So tell me, what’s different?
Also, just because the people responsible for the turmoil are overwhelmingly cishet men, does not mean that cishet men writ large are overwhelmingly responsible for it. That’s painting with a very large brush, and it should be no surprise that people got upset about it.
When else is it ever okay to blame an entire demographic for the actions of a very small percentage of them? What are working class white men supposed to feel when you lump them into the same category as the oligarchs with such sweeping generalizations? Do you see how that might impede class solidarity?
Also, “/s” is an abbreviation of a word, which everyone on the internet understands and knows what it means. That doesn’t change the fact that you said you were serious, only to backtrack and say you were joking.
Having been around since 1978 i assure you this this was the case for a very long time and still very much is the case in parts of the internet.
Don’t try that equivalency.
Well in those cases, it’s wrong. And in this case, it’s still wrong. Just because it’s happened the one way, doesn’t make the other way okay. Both are wrong.
The equivalency stands. And if you don’t think so, then you’re a hypocrite.
Not saying one is right, but there are a lot of things you need to learn beyond your kindergarten level of right and wrong about power dynamics and how actions and comments impact differently across these strata. The fact I had to point out to you that men denigrating women is the majority of western history and am now also pointing out there’s a sharp uptick very loudly occurring right now makes me think you are not in a position to start screaming hypocrisy because some rando talked shit about cis men on a single lemmy thread.
Note this: I never said it’s okay for men to denigrate women. It’s not.
Note this also: you’re essentially arguing that it’s okay for women to denigrate men. It’s not.
And for you to insist that one is okay while the other isn’t, is called a double standard. You haven’t examined your own biases, because you think you don’t even have to.
If that’s your line of reasoning, then I’m not going to take you seriously. You’re no better than a misogynist.
ok that’s twice now you’ve decided to end your comments to me with unfounded personal attacks. You need to stop doing that.
I mean, there’s a bunch of other logical fallacies going on there as well. But ending with sniping is a ridiculously childish tactic.
I’m agender, and this person is reminding me of all the mean girls who bullied me for not being femme enough. It’s the same kind of middle school logic that said that me not wearing makeup made me a man, and that I ought to kms.
I’m sorry you experienced that, those people didn’t deserve you. Bigots exists in every gender, unfortunately…
I honestly think that assholes follow the standard deviation pattern in humans, regardless of biology. It’s only when you start looking at categories that can self-select for behavior that you start seeing an over-representation of them.
Unfortunately, I think non-assholes are the deviation…
The mean, median, and mode are all squarely within “asshole” range…
I do disagree on that! The internet is a self-selecting group, and I’m gonna blame Meta, Alphabet, et all for creating algorithms that reward asshole behavior and caused an over-representation of assholes online.
Furthermore, I believe that non-assholes have the capacity to temporarily act like assholes when exposed to stress. Everybody can have a bad day, but that a few isolated incidents of assholery doesn’t make you an asshole.
Okay, ngl most of these comments are just funny stupid man shit, but now you’re calling me a bigot for literally pointing out indisputable facts about a patriarchal society.
Chuds are not your friend, they will not reward you for siding with them.
Goddamn, imagine if I were to go around describing feminism as “stupid woman shit” (I wouldn’t, because actually I agree with a lot of feminist philosophy such as bell hooks and Carol Gilligan, whom you’ve apparently never heard of).
But let’s just say I did. Imagine your reaction. And then go look in a fucking mirror. Newsflash: you are a bigot.
And then to call your generalizations and assumptions “indisputable facts” is a new level of arrogance. Do you even hear yourself?
There is also zero reward for siding with people who think that if you’re not a woman, you’re a man.
Turns out, what you’ve got in your pants has nothing to do with who you are as a human, and I’ve got penis-having friends who don’t judge me for not being femme.
Interesting, could you explain how making fun of cis men equates to transphobia and TERFs?
I see comments like these and I fear for queer youth who do not understand how their oppression functions structurally. Making fun of cis men, who are indeed in charge of every institution this meme is referencing, is not gender essentialism.
Because it’s the same reductive binary bullshit they do. If you’re in this category, you’re bad, lets just ignore the rest of it because it doesn’t fit the black and white thinking.
I also don’t fit the black and white thinking, ergo you won’t like me either.
How do you justify in your mind that it’s okay to make fun of a cis man who has never been anywhere near wealth or power in his entire life, just because most people near those levers happen to have the same genitalia as them?
That sounds a lot like gender essentialism, no matter how you say that it isn’t.
#notallmen. Hmm, yes, of course, how could I make fun of men when it isn’t all men. This is misandry! 😰
Since you’re just recycling chud talking points here’s a recycled joke:
I’m not recycling any talking points, whatever tf a “chud” is. My points were valid, and since you refuse to address them rationally and instead resort to insulting me (and half the world’s population at that), I can only assume you don’t have a valid response.
You would pout if someone made light of misogyny, and yet here you are making light of misandry. Are you aware of your double-standard, or completely blind to it?
Imagine a man making fun of women for something stereotypical, and imagine the response you would have. Then ask yourself, are you really any better than those “men” you despise so much?
Like, honestly, I’m politically left and believe in social progress and egalitarianism and all that, but comments like yours make me really not want to care about the oppression of people like you.
According to exit polls, no it’s not.
e.g. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voting-patterns-in-the-2024-election/
According to this, it’s rural, non-black christians doing this. Men were more likely to vote Trump, but the effect is nowhere near as strong as the urban/rural, christian/atheist and black/non-black divide.
Granted, the billionaires who benefit from this are almost all cis men, but non-billionaire women have been duped nearly the same as much as non-billionaire men.
Statistics don’t matter to bigots.
True. If they didn’t rely on small and unrepresentative samples (or often the imagination of themselves and others) to judge broad population groups and topics of discussion, they by definition wouldn’t be bigots.
Well that isn’t 100% true. There’s a bunch that like to parrot b******* crime statistics.
Okay, this was a joke but saying its bigoted to make fun of cis men is a new level of fragile masculinity
Triggering the boys’ club on Lemmy has accidentally become a hobby of mine. All I do is point out misogyny, which there is a lot of on here, and the club decends upon me. At a certain point the downvotes and insults become cathartic because they’re just proving my point. They never even try to convince me that they aren’t misogynists, it’s just pure insults. At least you got some honest discourse mixed in with the bullshit, lol.
As a cis white man, I’m just glad to finally get credit for something. DEI and woke has made it really difficult for me to be rewarded for other people’s progress in spite of my mere passive existence being an active stumbling block in the path of those who made the poor choice of being born as they were.
I’m sorry that you’ve just now realized you exist in a system that connects you to a social order you have little power over, next few months are going to be rough on you I tell’ya.
Although, I wonder if there’s a word for the conditions that someone would have to exist under to make it possible to come this far in life without ever being forced to learn about this because of their advantageous position in that system. 🧐
I appreciate your apologies. Few people realize how hard it is to be given every advantage, but not have everything.
Ok, I’m done. These sarcastic comments are making me sad.
The answer was “privilege”