US President Donald Trump’s abduction of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on January 3 has emboldened him to proceed with the annexation of Greenland, a Danish-owned, self-governed territory, spelling the effective end of NATO and furthering Russia’s war aims in Ukraine, experts tell Al Jazeera.
“The move on Venezuela illustrates the Trump administration’s determination to dominate the Western Hemisphere – of which Greenland geographically is a part,” said Anna Wieslander, Northern Europe director for the Atlantic Council, a think tank.
“If the United States decides to attack another NATO country, then everything would stop – that includes NATO and therefore post-World War II security,” Frederiksen said.
“The pandering to Trump has been an element of our strategy over the last year, leaving observers hoping, but not entirely trusting, that another element of the strategy is preparing urgently for the final rupture with the United States,” Giles said.
Giles told Al Jazeera that Europe’s best option was to place a military deterrent on Greenland now, believing that putting allied troops in the Baltic States and Poland after 2017 deterred a Russian attack there.
That would be the ultimate win for Putin: Destruction of the NATO.
Canada has the world’s longest undefended border with the US. There’s no hope if the US invades. It would be like Russia invading Ukraine with no mountains in the way
This would be impossible to hold we would lose it the second we stopped dumping hundreds of billions per year and would never own anywhere but islands of fascism where our troops were concentrated.
We would suffer continuous losses and the whole world except Russia and China would turn against us.
We would probably suffer economic collapse as other countries dropped dollars and exchange rates shifted against us while war creates a need for tax money which can only be raised by taxes which are unpopular or tariffs which further destroy trade.
If Congress doesn’t get behind attacking Canada Trump could only fund it by misappropriating money or raising tariffs.
Ultimately we lose Canada and end up in the next great depression
We are seriously in a good position right now in EU believe it or not. Trump has been a wakeup call, and we are already mobilizing faster than - ever? - however, imagine being Canada, australia, Japan, etc. Countries far far away from Europe. If nato dies, Europe makes a new defense alliance, focussing on having troops on the, continent. Canada and australia needs to come closer to Europe. Trade wise, militiary wise, political, if they don’t wanna get sucked up in the strongest superpower nearby, even if they have anything in common or not.
If Trump invades, does article 5 trigger against a nato member?
There is no nato if this happens.
I knew this would happen eventually, I just thought it would happen after my lifetime
Some countries in Europe are starting to, and given what Europe is, that’s probably the best they can start doing.
At least because they made sure to show us their hand at their latest sonic weapons and information warfare used to shut down weapons that was used in the Venezuela attack. They would probably go the same route with Europe, trying to behead whatever strategic target is going to get them what they want, because they can’t go for a prolonged conflict either.
Experts… who the fuck are these experts.
They’re not experts they’re just some random
think tankmilane actors with a political goal which means they’re just arrogant people who like telling everybody else what to do largely with zero qualifications.
Prepare yourself. Go buy a good quality action camera.
with lots of film. get the high speed stuff, to shoot all the “action”.
The pandering to Trump has been an element of our strategy over the last year
If it really happens, shut down all the US military installations in Europe and European territories. The Red Coats should tell the US to leave Diego Garcia too.
They can’t even shut down the base in Greenland. There’s a reason DeGaulle kicked the US out in 1966. And why Okinawa residents have been lobbying to shut down the local base for decades.
Europeans have been under military occupation since the end of WW2, telling themselves the gun pointed at the back of their heads was aimed at the USSR, even after it dissolved.
Now they’re going to have to deal with a foreign hostile occupation whose roots have grown deep
Nobel price of …war
Nobel war prize
Why can’t NATO still exist without the US? The alliance could still stick together even if the US shits the bed. God damn why am I typing this? WW3 is about to start and I have no idea what the fuck is going on in my country anymore.
Canada needs nuclear weapons as a deterrent against the American threat. Inshallah.
Challenging, but not impossible. I think the military budget of all other NATO members combined would just be about the same as the US. However, it’s not like every country has its own independent “mix of everything”; they are supposed to work supplemental. What makes things worse is proprietary hardware and software in modern equipment such as planes. I’m not sure to which degree it would even be technically possible to use it to defend against the USA.
Then there is the nuclear weapon problem. France and UK would have to really stand their ground and follow through with nuclear retaliation. That means that even when the USA or Russia just use a small tactical nuke in Poland, Greenland or wherever, they’d have to use one of their few strategic nukes to destroy something big, possibly dooming Paris. The downside of the idea of mutually assured destruction always was that it only works with somewhat reasonable people who REALLY are not willing to take their entire civilisation with them. But since Stalin, there have never been nutjobs like Trump or Putin in charge, neither in the USSR, nor US, nor Russia.
A victorious Ukraine would certainly be an incredible asset to have in NATO, with all those battle-hardened, highly educated people.
But all things considered, might as well give it a try.
Because nobody in Europe wants to fight
You are deluding yourself.
The US is doing this with the aim of surviving and thriving. They are chasing treasure, land and the dream of a better life after. Those are not goals that motivate people to fight.
For Europe, as for Canada, this fight is existential. There is nothing people are not willing to do in an existential fight.
You’re out of your mind if you think the US has the upper hand here.
Europe has two choices - fight or die
Meaning while, USA citizens are waiting for mid term elections! Trump most likely will leave or court will do something. Sit and watch, do nothing.
Why would Trump leave that’s antithesis to his entire personality. Sticking around long after it’s clear that everyone hates him, claiming some sort of conspiracy, that’s more his style.
The feudalists behind Trump made the mistake to give the population a chance to bring him down once… they won’t repeat it. Also, if I remember correctly the SCOTUS granted the POTUS immunity for any action commited during his presidency. So whether Trump an others will be helf accountable his highly questionable to me… even if he loses the election in 3 years.
Trump will be free but every fucking one of his minions will not … because they don’t have the same immunity.
If there’s a power shift after midterms and the Dems make inroads, be prepared to watch Trump scream bloody murder 'cause he can’t always have his own way.
Unfortunately I (non-american) hear close to nothing from the Dems since ~ 12 months. Given their inactivity and assumed unwillignes to figth against the rise of Trumps dictatorship I have little hopes that the midterms change anything… also given that Trump seems to ignore the parliaments whenevwr he likes.
dems aren’t going to do shit lol
The same rulings mean that a future president can just lock him up without trial… Which probably means there won’t be any future (non-Trumpian) president, unfortunately.
You would do the same if you were a US citizen. Talking tough from a distance is just as pathetic as our inaction and general inability to magically fix our country. Waiting for elections and not escalating beyond peaceful protests is all we can do without handing them the propaganda they need. Peaceful includes open carrying like the black panthers.
If someone were to actually assassinate the orange one, you guys are way more fucked. The retribution campaign would go way beyond Greenland even if it makes no sense.
In that case then, do something at those elections. But do something.
Do something instead of throwing out excuses everywhere.
There’s other things that could be done, if the claims that most are good people are correct. Such as a quiet ‘down tools’. But that can’t be done either because jobs and healthcare right?
It’s fine for Americans to shoot back at others about the harsher end of action, such as revolution but they don’t even try and look for excuses on the easier ways out.
There isn’t enough support for revolution despite what many people here believe.
Internal violence is always used by fascists to consolidate power. So people who aren’t stupid don’t use it. Shooting an ICE agent would be used to expand their protection for example.
There isn’t more ‘somethings’ to do. Voting and protesting is all we really have.
The problem is a large portion of this country is actually supportive of what’s happening. People who are mad are a minority.
Voting and protesting is all we really have.
Voting is not going to mean anything. You are putting far too much undeserved trust in the remaining democratic institutions.
Protesting only works if voting works, otherwise who are you convincing with protest? It’s masturbatory.
You need a general strike, and you need protests with clear open carries. You need to step it up so that the people in power can see the power of the people. Unfortunately you’re not ready or willing to do this because the risk of violence is very real. And it seems the American people are not ready to risk their lives to fix their country…yet. But their opponents are willing to do that to break it. The good Americans are going to come too late to this realization.
There isn’t enough…
Internal violence…
Yes, I agree to every sentence in those two paragraphs. I don’t advocate for it and my comment didn’t.
voting and protesting is all we have
Yep, which is why I replied do something to the voting point.
You need to do something that grinds production, like stopping work and trading, that forces those in power to use the standing institutional rules to remove the two or three needed and you know who they are. The rest then becomes an incompetent Republican administration. Yes, it sounds insane and impossible; it probably is. It requires hardship which Americans are not willing to endure.
You voted them in. That ship has sailed. Your nation needs free and fair midterms at all costs.
I’m not advocating for violence, at all. I never have and I don’t want to see the US fall because the loss is incalculable. I do advocate people take whatever steps necessary to defend themselves. I support the organised protests but I don’t think that’ll be enough; pockets need to drain. The system needs jamming and the only way to get those that can act is to jam it.
If someone were to actually assassinate the orange one, you guys are way more fucked.
Why? Who would be ordering it, Vance? MAGA have one figurehead and a bunch of background characters that no one really likes. If Trump died it would be over. The GOP knows that, which is why you’re starting to see some pushback against Trump and his more insane ideas. They have started to realise that they need to be politically palatable in a post Trump world.
You would be shocked how many people knew the WMD thing was a lie and yet, still went to war over it. It will be the same type of behavior if he were assassinated.
Im not sure still they won’t fall in line after he dies. The bubble they live in is more insane than you realize. I grew up in it.
Don’t your knees hurt for being on them for so long?
Man the fuck up and stop trusting billionaires who only care about money will save you from billionaires who only care about money and raping children.
Edgy of you to assume all of these things.
Let’s hope the same thing will happen if/when the US tries to take Greenland; but honestly, I’m not optimistic. At least here in Germany, politicians and businesses are so used to licking the US’ boot that I have a hard time imagining a seismic shift. Not to mention that thanks to our dependence on US software, we’re incredibly vulnerable.
Still. One can hope.
End of NATO means:
- Russia will go all in in Ukraine, Moldavia and baltic states
- Turkey and Greece will go to war.
- Israel will bomb everybody just in case
- China will get Taiwan
- USA will bomb Mexico
- Israel will nuke someone
- …
And this is why billionaires have been building bunkers.
The fucking Muscovites will attack Poland to take the Sulwalki Gap and Finland to control their former vassal state.
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\7. France nukes everyone. (That’s their policy, anyone uses nukes, they launch everything they have against all nuclear powers, which isn’t a lot, but that’s a lot of major cities gone.)
Isn’t that Israel’s nuclear doctrine?
Yea, it is. Not true of France.
Officially Israel “doesn’t have nukes,” unofficially they have very few that could be used in short order before they are nuked. They don’t have the capability to nuke more than a few countries in the Middle East
That’s not an answer to my question. What you described sounds most like Israel’s Samson Option and not anything like I’ve ever heard of France’s nuclear doctrine.
Israel doesn’t have the capability to deliver. That’s about as useful as saying North Korea will nuke everyone. They literally can’t.
France adopted the policies I listed, with some small nuance in the 1970s and haven’t changed their stance.
Source ?
I can’t find the articles that I read about this, but if you look up their nuclear policies, they won’t use in first strike scenarios, but the will use for defensive strikes, which amounts to exactly what I said. In defensive scenarios, someone else already used them, so may as well unload your entire stockpile. Everyone else is going to unload theirs.
Just for reference the US, Russia, and China have similar contingencies. Once Israel or anyone launches a nuke or uses a bomb in very short order all the stockpiles get emptied. France just was pretty blatant about it in the '70s.
