Currently adult Americans had like ten different elections that allowed them to not end up in this mess. They failed like 8 of those, so here we are.
The amount of blame is directly proportional to the amount of agency people had. US was, until very recently, a democracy. A bit shitty one, but still, so everyone who was of a voting age share some of that responsibility.
Hitler was elected multiple times as well. His party didn’t have any more support than trump does. If we had more than a two party system, we would have elected Trump by the same margins as Hitler.
The problem is that kind and peaceful people are so reluctant to respond to violence with violence. If the first Nazis, upon starting their drivel, were promptly punched in the mouth, and that happened repeatedly, I feel they would have gotten a lot less done.
The funny part to me is the people who actually support Trump are laughing their asses off that the euros are mad. They love it more than they love owning the libs. Hate is what they based their entire personality around, you cannot out-hate a fascist.
You’re a shit person. People are getting sent to death camps. Kids are being kidnapped and tortured. Brown people and queer people are the targets just like during the Holocaust. Eat shit.
Wow! Me too! So what? Why are you on the internet pulling a #NotAllAmericans? Does your shitty country (and the shitty people in it) that by your own admission has betrayed you need or want to be defended by you?
Damn I wonder who we got it from? Oh yeah Europe. The continent so ashamed that they bombed themselves to hell and back in WW2 after raping every other continent that they pretend it’s just us that’s the problem.
See they are actually 2 very different situations, because only 30% of German voters voted for the Nazis, whereas 50% of America voters voluntarily got off their arses to cast a vote for Trump (i.e. vote for a sexual abuser, and a platform of division and hatred) …
Yes, we have a disenfranchisement problem in the US. Between voter rolls being purged, people losing their right to vote due to felonies, gerrymandering out the ass, voter ID and other such nonsense trying to stop legal votes, and purposeful locking down/ limiting of voting places, it’s honestly impressive so many were still able to vote. Doesn’t change that what you said was wrong.
And it’s 188 million, unless you think a vote for Harris wasn’t voting against Trump.
It’s less than that, even. People under 18 are included in the total population numbers, but aren’t eligible to vote yet, so you need to knock around a third (maybe more?) of your total off just for that.
Yes that’s a problem but you directly asserted that a larger percentage of Americans voted for it than Germans did in the past which is flatly wrong. Interesting that you didn’t even acknowledge that whatsoever
A majority never have and never will vote, it’s stupid but true. They just tune it out because it doesn’t “effect them” because they don’t realize how much it can and does.
I did voter registration drives in my area for a few pre-election years, and it’s really staggering the number of minority people who “don’t do politics”. As though that somehow helps them or is something to wear as a badge of honor. Not that they tune it out, but they actively avoid it at all costs.
I convinced a few of them to change their tune and got them set up with absentee ballots to reduce the friction in voting, but man a lot of people genuinely want to avoid any mention of the government. I don’t really get it, but I don’t live their lives either. I haven’t seen how poorly the system treats them, and I don’t know what anxieties they might have about participating in the system.
I think, overall, people are rational actors using whatever information they have available to them (even if that information is dis/mis-information). So there’s some set of reasons these people feel so thoroughly disenfranchised that they don’t even bother trying to participate. It’s probably not a very good reason, in reality, but it’s good enough for them to act on. idk how to fix that, but we probably should figure it out.
That’s a fair point, I sadly don’t have the energy to do much action myself and am happy to hear others like you do try!
To your point on minority positions, I know there’s some fear there of retribution sometimes, or that the state makes it more difficult then necessary so that puts them off. Also just finding the time in our lives to do so, I pay a lot of attention to politics and it makes me angry a lot of the time, so I can understand why people want to tune it out for those kinds of reasons, however it is so important that you just have to do it at the end of the day or the consequences are… gestures around
I’m sure there some good historical ideas, thinking particularly the civil rights movements and their tactics to get out the vote, I know it’s a different time now but I’m sure a lot of it would still ring true/helpful.
Not voting is a choice. It means “I don’t mind if Trump will be our glorious leader”. Most americans voted for Trump actively or passively. The only people who’re off the hook are children, deeply ill, and prisoners.
There is some number of people who voted but who’s vote for some reason wasn’t counted, but that’s margins compared to tens of millions who just didn’t
Ah yes, Lemmy user commenting on a Lemmy.world thread that Lemmy is of course totally different, despite having all the exact same endless US politics content and USian whining as Reddit.
I’m sure not all Germans in WW2 were bad, but we still collectively punished them, because they were there and let it happen. 70% of Americans knowingly didn’t vote against this and that’s a high enough percentage to hold them collectively responsible, without even delving into all the complacency and complicity that lead to the point where it was even possible.
This happened because a bunch of Democrats and wannabe leftists decided to not vote due to Gaza. The problem is that people here, regardless of political party, are stupid and stuck in black and white thinking.
Brown people in Gaza being bombed? Time to sacrifice all the vulnerable minorities in the USA by not voting. Now we can all die together.
The people who flooded the subreddit with sorry are fucking dumb.
And when you blame all Americans, this is what you sound like:
Currently adult Americans had like ten different elections that allowed them to not end up in this mess. They failed like 8 of those, so here we are.
The amount of blame is directly proportional to the amount of agency people had. US was, until very recently, a democracy. A bit shitty one, but still, so everyone who was of a voting age share some of that responsibility.
Hitler was elected multiple times as well. His party didn’t have any more support than trump does. If we had more than a two party system, we would have elected Trump by the same margins as Hitler.
The problem is that kind and peaceful people are so reluctant to respond to violence with violence. If the first Nazis, upon starting their drivel, were promptly punched in the mouth, and that happened repeatedly, I feel they would have gotten a lot less done.
The funny part to me is the people who actually support Trump are laughing their asses off that the euros are mad. They love it more than they love owning the libs. Hate is what they based their entire personality around, you cannot out-hate a fascist.
But you can out murder them. See: Germany.
Maybe we should try that again.
Americans comparing themselves to holocaust victims, a classic! You’re a fucking awful person.
You’re a shit person. People are getting sent to death camps. Kids are being kidnapped and tortured. Brown people and queer people are the targets just like during the Holocaust. Eat shit.
Keep using minorities as a bludgeon you shitstain.
I AM A FUCKING MINORITY YOU DIPSHIT
Wow! Me too! So what? Why are you on the internet pulling a #NotAllAmericans? Does your shitty country (and the shitty people in it) that by your own admission has betrayed you need or want to be defended by you?
Damn I wonder who we got it from? Oh yeah Europe. The continent so ashamed that they bombed themselves to hell and back in WW2 after raping every other continent that they pretend it’s just us that’s the problem.
Hahahahaha what the fuck lmao please don’t delete your comments!
Edit: Oh my god bro thinks I’m from Europe, convenient out-group I guess.
No one assumed where you’re from. This entire thread has been about Europe. I’m not randomly gonna bring up somewhere else. Eat shit.
See they are actually 2 very different situations, because only 30% of German voters voted for the Nazis, whereas 50% of America voters voluntarily got off their arses to cast a vote for Trump (i.e. vote for a sexual abuser, and a platform of division and hatred) …
Approx. 17.3 million people voted for the nazis in 1933, total population was 67.7 million, for 25.5% of the population.
Approx. 77.3 million people voted for trump in 2024, total population was 340.1 million, for 22.7% of the population.
No, the fascist gained power here with even less of a mandate than the nazis.
263 million Americans decided they didn’t care enough to vote against a convicted sexual abuser running their country…
Very telling that you didn’t acknowledge that you were flat out wrong.
I stated “voters”, not “Americans”. I specifically used those words, because I didn’t care to calculate the non-voters in to the equation at the time.
I’m not here to argue semantics…
Yes, we have a disenfranchisement problem in the US. Between voter rolls being purged, people losing their right to vote due to felonies, gerrymandering out the ass, voter ID and other such nonsense trying to stop legal votes, and purposeful locking down/ limiting of voting places, it’s honestly impressive so many were still able to vote. Doesn’t change that what you said was wrong.
And it’s 188 million, unless you think a vote for Harris wasn’t voting against Trump.
I miscalculated, whoopsie
I stated “voters”, not “Americans”. I specifically used those words, because I didn’t care to calculate the non-voters in to the equation at the time.
I’m not here to argue semantics…
It’s less than that, even. People under 18 are included in the total population numbers, but aren’t eligible to vote yet, so you need to knock around a third (maybe more?) of your total off just for that.
Used the same process for both, so that’s already accounted for. Both are total population vs those that voted for the regime.
Yes that’s a problem but you directly asserted that a larger percentage of Americans voted for it than Germans did in the past which is flatly wrong. Interesting that you didn’t even acknowledge that whatsoever
I stated “voters”, not “Americans”. I specifically used those words, because I didn’t care to calculate the non-voters in to the equation at the time.
A majority never have and never will vote, it’s stupid but true. They just tune it out because it doesn’t “effect them” because they don’t realize how much it can and does.
Or they’re white and well off enough to not care
I did voter registration drives in my area for a few pre-election years, and it’s really staggering the number of minority people who “don’t do politics”. As though that somehow helps them or is something to wear as a badge of honor. Not that they tune it out, but they actively avoid it at all costs.
I convinced a few of them to change their tune and got them set up with absentee ballots to reduce the friction in voting, but man a lot of people genuinely want to avoid any mention of the government. I don’t really get it, but I don’t live their lives either. I haven’t seen how poorly the system treats them, and I don’t know what anxieties they might have about participating in the system.
I think, overall, people are rational actors using whatever information they have available to them (even if that information is dis/mis-information). So there’s some set of reasons these people feel so thoroughly disenfranchised that they don’t even bother trying to participate. It’s probably not a very good reason, in reality, but it’s good enough for them to act on. idk how to fix that, but we probably should figure it out.
That’s a fair point, I sadly don’t have the energy to do much action myself and am happy to hear others like you do try!
To your point on minority positions, I know there’s some fear there of retribution sometimes, or that the state makes it more difficult then necessary so that puts them off. Also just finding the time in our lives to do so, I pay a lot of attention to politics and it makes me angry a lot of the time, so I can understand why people want to tune it out for those kinds of reasons, however it is so important that you just have to do it at the end of the day or the consequences are… gestures around
I’m sure there some good historical ideas, thinking particularly the civil rights movements and their tactics to get out the vote, I know it’s a different time now but I’m sure a lot of it would still ring true/helpful.
No, it was also about 30% for Trump. Most people just don’t vote at all and the electoral college was designed to bypass popular votes.
Not voting is a choice. It means “I don’t mind if Trump will be our glorious leader”. Most americans voted for Trump actively or passively. The only people who’re off the hook are children, deeply ill, and prisoners.
There is some number of people who voted but who’s vote for some reason wasn’t counted, but that’s margins compared to tens of millions who just didn’t
Yes that’s why I was very careful to say “voters” and not "Americans.
If you’re considering all members of the population, then the % of Germans who voted for the Nazis was closer to 20%.
America is an absolute embarrassment.
So you agree with the position that Russians shouldn’t be punished for the war with Ukraine?
Not every Russian is Putin. I feel bad for the queer people over there, too.
As I mentioned to another commenter, the majority of USians don’t seem to share this sentiment.
You’ve talked to a majority of Americans, have you?
You have, presumably?
Why would the average Russian, who I heard doesn’t even want to do this stupid Ukraine war, be punished?
Why are they punished then?
By whom?
I’m not interested in a ‘discussion’ with someone who’s just gonna play dumb.
I do… Like obviously. They had no control over that decision or access to accurate information
You may find that this is not the majority’s position in the US itself.
Even living in a hotbed of Trump supporters, I don’t find that at all. They’re mostly heroically uniformed
Because propaganda works, and Clinton cut the protections of the press from capital acquisition
It’s difficult to call Reddit a conservative platform, but you won’t find much sympathy for Russians there.
Reddit is a cesspool and doesn’t usually represent the majority. Reddit is for people who like smelling their own farts.
Ah yes, Lemmy user commenting on a Lemmy.world thread that Lemmy is of course totally different, despite having all the exact same endless US politics content and USian whining as Reddit.
So are you Russian or from the US? Because you seen to be speaking for both
I’m sure not all Germans in WW2 were bad, but we still collectively punished them, because they were there and let it happen. 70% of Americans knowingly didn’t vote against this and that’s a high enough percentage to hold them collectively responsible, without even delving into all the complacency and complicity that lead to the point where it was even possible.
This happened because a bunch of Democrats and wannabe leftists decided to not vote due to Gaza. The problem is that people here, regardless of political party, are stupid and stuck in black and white thinking.
Brown people in Gaza being bombed? Time to sacrifice all the vulnerable minorities in the USA by not voting. Now we can all die together.