Correct, it was a land grab scam based on the laws of the time.
IIRC, if he planted trees it was then his land because he was using it, so he could then sell it for actual money. This was after the military had killed or chased out the natives who lived on it, of course.
You don’t recall correctly, and I have no idea where you got that information. Appleseed actually was a successful businessman who bought some land, owning about 1200 acres (~5 km2), but by all accounts he was a genuinely good person, and I’ve never heard what you’re saying (and not substantiating) that he did.
I’d go even further and say that this is more generic than capitalism/anticapitalism wish fulfillment. It’s a desire to speak truth to power but without any of the effort or sincere curiosity to learn what that truth is. To have that truth condensed onto a smaller and smaller spoon until you don’t even realize you’re being spoonfed at all is the ideal.
“I’m too old to care if what I say is true” what age do I get to just start saying stuff and act like other people are the problem when they call me out on pulling shit out of my ass and presenting it as fact?
Well, back in my 20s a coworker forgave me for leaning Democrat because “if you’re a Republican in your 20s you have no heart. If you’re a Democrat in your 30s you have no brain.”
So, I’d say never. Reality matters at all ages. Well, until you have deep dementia. At that point, enjoy the invisible angels that help you use the restroom. You need all the help you can get. (Source: my mom on the occasions of caring for my grandmother)
What’s the goal here? Agitate people on line for fun?
You’re not arguing in good faith. You tell people that you are in your sixties and disabled, as if that’s excuse for your behavior. You add no context or sources. What’re you looking to get out of engaging in a public forum? What does lemmy.world get you that Facebook does not?
I thought he made his name by basically being a consultant and helping others plant their trees. The law at the time was you had to grow X number of apple trees and the land was yours. That was because apple trees take multiple years to grow so it proved you were taking care of the land for multiple years.
Yeah, Appleseed would generally move ahead of pioneers and start nurseries on land he thought would be settled. It wasn’t some land shakedown scam like the original comment is implying; it was a very useful service that Appleseed would even forego payment for to those who couldn’t afford it. Apples were a dietary staple on the frontier, often used for bartering, and sometimes, as you said, you even legally needed an orchard.
Well it was useful for the pioneers, however you have to acknowledge the massive genocide that was committed to make that land “available” to those same “pioneers”.
Apples were a dietary staple in so much as they could be brewed into cider and the resulting mash was then used to bulk up food stocks as feed for invasive farm animals.
Your comments don’t seem to address any of this. Why is that?
Your comments don’t seem to address any of this. Why is that?
Because that’s not at all what the original comment was about. Why am I expected to offer up a treatise on the consequences of apples on the American frontier in order to debunk someone purporting – unsubstantiated and evidently with no regard for the truth – that Appleseed was running “a land grab scam based on the laws of the time”?
Edit: I guess since the original comment mentioned it, I could mention the obvious that, no shit, this was stolen land just like effectively every parcel of US land. But what good does this do our discussion of Appleseed’s character as an alleged scam artist? It’s generally understood that Appleseed had a very good relationship with the Native Americans he encountered, and yes, sometimes you can be an overall well-meaning person while advancing a deeply unethical system.
“Consulatant”: “Hey guys here’s a way to lay claim to government land taken from the natives. Just plant a bunch of crabapple seeds like I did and you can claim to be “working the land”, too.”
Dude, who knows where I saw it but Honest Opinion says he’s a useful idiot and you’re saying he’s a successful businessman who bought land, completely ignoring the whole homestead laws of the day.
I’m too old and cynical to buy “he was a good person” in the US during that time frame. Sorry, not gonna happen.
Johnny never really profited. By all accounts he was likely neurodivergent and Apple Trees were his special interest. His labor and efforts to educate others was leveraged by others to snatch land up and proof of improvement to the land for homesteading.
The US government was absolutely at fault for the genocide of indigenous peoples. But Johnny was at worse a useful idiot and at best a roving horticulturist who wasn’t very good at owning land.
You’ll go about spouting things as if they are facts, and when questioned you simply hand-wave them away as if checks comments “being old” and “being disabled” are in any way supporting your point.
Let me elaborate, because your ego-driven brain didn’t register what i said.
You’re not laughing at my expense, you’re laughing while shitting your own pants. I pointed that out, and now you’re saying that you’re feeling amused because of how thin-skinned i am.
The only thing i feel, is distaste and resentment towards your inability to accept the fact that you’re wrong at something as minor, your pathetic attempts to heal your wounded ego after, and your supposed tendency to make yourself feel good at the expense of others.
The last one is especially ironic considering that you seem to be far left.
Correct, it was a land grab scam based on the laws of the time.
IIRC, if he planted trees it was then his land because he was using it, so he could then sell it for actual money. This was after the military had killed or chased out the natives who lived on it, of course.
You don’t recall correctly, and I have no idea where you got that information. Appleseed actually was a successful businessman who bought some land, owning about 1200 acres (~5 km2), but by all accounts he was a genuinely good person, and I’ve never heard what you’re saying (and not substantiating) that he did.
Ah but you see, their comment has the message of “capitalism bad”, so it doesn’t really matter if what they wrote is true.
I’d go even further and say that this is more generic than capitalism/anticapitalism wish fulfillment. It’s a desire to speak truth to power but without any of the effort or sincere curiosity to learn what that truth is. To have that truth condensed onto a smaller and smaller spoon until you don’t even realize you’re being spoonfed at all is the ideal.
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“I’m too old to care if what I say is true” what age do I get to just start saying stuff and act like other people are the problem when they call me out on pulling shit out of my ass and presenting it as fact?
Well, back in my 20s a coworker forgave me for leaning Democrat because “if you’re a Republican in your 20s you have no heart. If you’re a Democrat in your 30s you have no brain.”
So, I’d say never. Reality matters at all ages. Well, until you have deep dementia. At that point, enjoy the invisible angels that help you use the restroom. You need all the help you can get. (Source: my mom on the occasions of caring for my grandmother)
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Yes, capitalism bad, but uhhhhh
OK boomer
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Citation [21]“Johnny Appleseed, Orchardist,” prepared by the staff of the Public Library of Fort Wayne and Allen Couth, November 1952, page 26
Here, I took the trouble for you. He was not, by any accounts, a good business man.
Please avoid spreading disinformation. This isn’t facebook.
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What’s the goal here? Agitate people on line for fun?
You’re not arguing in good faith. You tell people that you are in your sixties and disabled, as if that’s excuse for your behavior. You add no context or sources. What’re you looking to get out of engaging in a public forum? What does lemmy.world get you that Facebook does not?
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This is a dumb take.
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Well hey, as a wise person once said:
Good citation. That guy is a genius.
He’s also taking enough gabbapentin to stun a horse so his memory isn’t super great.
Good cook though.
popcorn
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If it smells like shit in one place, it’s probably shit. If it smells like shit everywhere, it’s time to check your shoe.
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I thought he made his name by basically being a consultant and helping others plant their trees. The law at the time was you had to grow X number of apple trees and the land was yours. That was because apple trees take multiple years to grow so it proved you were taking care of the land for multiple years.
Yeah, Appleseed would generally move ahead of pioneers and start nurseries on land he thought would be settled. It wasn’t some land shakedown scam like the original comment is implying; it was a very useful service that Appleseed would even forego payment for to those who couldn’t afford it. Apples were a dietary staple on the frontier, often used for bartering, and sometimes, as you said, you even legally needed an orchard.
Well it was useful for the pioneers, however you have to acknowledge the massive genocide that was committed to make that land “available” to those same “pioneers”.
Apples were a dietary staple in so much as they could be brewed into cider and the resulting mash was then used to bulk up food stocks as feed for invasive farm animals.
Your comments don’t seem to address any of this. Why is that?
Because that’s not at all what the original comment was about. Why am I expected to offer up a treatise on the consequences of apples on the American frontier in order to debunk someone purporting – unsubstantiated and evidently with no regard for the truth – that Appleseed was running “a land grab scam based on the laws of the time”?
Edit: I guess since the original comment mentioned it, I could mention the obvious that, no shit, this was stolen land just like effectively every parcel of US land. But what good does this do our discussion of Appleseed’s character as an alleged scam artist? It’s generally understood that Appleseed had a very good relationship with the Native Americans he encountered, and yes, sometimes you can be an overall well-meaning person while advancing a deeply unethical system.
Thank you for the further context. The original tone of the comment I replied to could have been construed as support.
“Consulatant”: “Hey guys here’s a way to lay claim to government land taken from the natives. Just plant a bunch of crabapple seeds like I did and you can claim to be “working the land”, too.”
I’m not buying any good intentions here, sorry.
Did I say good intentions? Consultants get paid for their work.
And I’m sure you think this means something.
There are no good capitalists comrade.
Cool story bro
Dude, who knows where I saw it but Honest Opinion says he’s a useful idiot and you’re saying he’s a successful businessman who bought land, completely ignoring the whole homestead laws of the day.
I’m too old and cynical to buy “he was a good person” in the US during that time frame. Sorry, not gonna happen.
Sorry for the YouTube link, if anyone can find it hosted elsewhere let me know I’ll update my post.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aD_Tyj-wbC4
Johnny never really profited. By all accounts he was likely neurodivergent and Apple Trees were his special interest. His labor and efforts to educate others was leveraged by others to snatch land up and proof of improvement to the land for homesteading.
The US government was absolutely at fault for the genocide of indigenous peoples. But Johnny was at worse a useful idiot and at best a roving horticulturist who wasn’t very good at owning land.
Useful idiot or not, the fact is, according to The Technician at least, he was a successful businessman, so somebody is wrong here.
I’m too old and cynical to believe that it wasn’t a scam, ND or not, and that doesn’t absolve him from complicity.
Do you have any sources that support your argument?
C’mon man, he’s already established that he’s old! Once you reach a certain age, facts don’t matter, just fee-fees.
Probably, but I don’t care enough to look them up.
Factoids aren’t my special interest any more since I became disabled.
You’ll go about spouting things as if they are facts, and when questioned you simply hand-wave them away as if checks comments “being old” and “being disabled” are in any way supporting your point.
You sound exactly like my MAGA in-laws.
I can see you don’t come from a very smart family then.
At some point you’ll realize that not every little thing you say needs a citation because some kid on the internet gets his panties in a twist.
Calm down, buddy, you’re gonna pop a blood vessel.
Ah, ad hominem attacks because you can’t counter anyone’s points.
I see my maga boomer comment was spot on.
And for some reason they thought you came from your in laws?
Then why are you caring enough to continue being a nuisance?
Either you have something of substance to say on the matter, or you shut up and listen what people that have can tell you, arrogant old man.
I’m both easily entertained and easily amused.
And you guys are apparently so thin-skinned you can’t help being reactive little bunnies.
Let me elaborate, because your ego-driven brain didn’t register what i said.
You’re not laughing at my expense, you’re laughing while shitting your own pants. I pointed that out, and now you’re saying that you’re feeling amused because of how thin-skinned i am.
The only thing i feel, is distaste and resentment towards your inability to accept the fact that you’re wrong at something as minor, your pathetic attempts to heal your wounded ego after, and your supposed tendency to make yourself feel good at the expense of others.
The last one is especially ironic considering that you seem to be far left.
If you aren’t going to find sources to backup your nonsense then please just keep it to yourself.
No.
Alright well no one wants to hear it so idk what you hope to accomplish.
more like johnny crappleseed amirite?