I’m not in the US, but it seems to me that the Republicans keep breaking norms and procedures, including politicising impeachment and ignoring illegal, immoral and plain bad conduct.
They also seem to be fine with not applying the same standard across the isle.
On the other hand, either Democrats follow new precedent, with even more devolving, or they keep the old decorum and get their asses kicked by Republican foul play.
What ways out of this spiral are there?
There is more discussion that might be useful here: https://ponder.cat/post/1453581
As a non-American, it’s always looked to me like the Republicans manage to get their shit done whether they’re in charge or not and the Democrats are just there to assure everyone they have a choice in voting and not much else.
The whole thing to me looks like a game of good cop / bad cop. Bad cop comes along beats the shit out you, and then good cop comes along to give you a cup of weak shit coffee as a consolation for your black eye and says something unconvincing about being unhappy with bad cop’s behaviour, before letting bad cop back in to beat the shit out of you some more.
And for every cycle of that, bad cop achieves his goals while good cop just acts as a glorified tea lady that tries to make sure you don’t have any hard feelings about bad cop.
it’s always looked to me like the Republicans manage to get their shit done
This is at least partly propaganda but for sure they succeed in misleading and confusing
The shit republicans get done tends to be
- destroying is easier than building
- misleading is easier than actually doing
- “flood the zone with shit and see what sticks”
- just claim success enough times that people believe it
Find me a philosophy or religious perspective that is unambiguous about brute force.
It’s effective as long as one doesn’t consider the consequences, but the reality of nearly every situation is such that there’s always a better way. Did the US need to nuke two Japanese cities and every inhabitant during WW2? Or were they just too tired, scared of a war of attrition and with the technological option available, they took the easier path?
Mouseland may have been written about Canada but it also applies to the USA.
Republicans getting “shit done”? What a schizo take, unless you mean just generally fucking shit up.
Destroying shit is what they said they’d do. They did it. Therefore they got their shit done.
The problem is that it’s far easier to destroy than build. They suck at building anything. They can’t even build walls. Governing is building. They can’t govern. So they mash the easy button and destroy instead.
“Destroying shit is what we’re going to do” is what the libs hear/see, the average trump voter genuinely thinks he’s actually going to make things better/fulfill his promises.
Libs see the actions for what they are. Farces. Pointless. Things that have no bearing in making anyone’s situation better - unless by “better” it means pissing off the libs. BS like changing the Gulf’s name. Removing sign language from government sites. The only meaningful actions trump takes are the ones to enrich himself and his cronies, remove oversight, or remove challenges to their narrative.
As in “getting their shit done.”
Most of what the clowns promise never gets done. But I agree that their grift is accomplished wonderfully.
Revolution
This is the only way. You don’t defeat fascism peacefully.
Well. You can. But we already passed all the opportunities to do so. Gotta nip it in the bud and we chose not to do so.
you already beat one oppressor, what is one more
At this point? Probably not. Not if history is any indication. We’ve blown right past all the checkpoints that would have prevented this snowball effect. Our legislative processes are almost too irreparably damaged for a healthy democracy to exist. We’ve removed too many regulations regarding money in our politics and not placed enough regulations on the focus of power on individuals and entities within our government.
We’re probably going to go through a really dark period where the quality of life is going to decline, rights will be stripped, and a lot of vulnerable people are going to die and then, hopefully, things will get bad enough that a revolution happens. It won’t be like WW2 where more powerful forces come to our rescue. We’ll have to do it ourselves. And I don’t really have that much faith in our populace doing that. Again, it will take a really significant decline in quality of life for damn near everyone before that’s even possible. It looks like that’s where we’re headed though.
The rich coastal states that can bail out should definitely do so. Cascadia now!
California is lobbing the calexit referendum again. Wheeee
Sadly, I think you’re right.
It’s absurd that the wealthiest people in the world are making all the decisions that effect the rest of us, especially when they’re using that control to influence the rest of us through social media.
I think the only solution is a revolution where wealth is redistributed, probably through violence.
Bezos and Musks assets should just be nationalised. Give them pensions of 10m a year or something in return.
Yes. All modern human civilization will collapse with the coming climate change.
Somewhere along the way we decided punching Nazis wasn’t cool. I worry it’s too late now.
The “we” you speak of is a lot smaller of a group than you think.
Is it though? we all claim to hate nazis (largely because of their genocide), but talk about halting a different genocide and suddenly the dems have all wandered off or are staring intently at their shoes.
Ok.
Saying to punch Nazis is against the rules on the new 196.
inb4 drama
No, the ban wasn’t about anything else. Drag has direct statements from multiple mods that it was about violence against Nazis, not about anything else. The admin is not the mod team. The admin’s views are not the reason for the mod team’s actions
convenient of you to leave out this message
Drag thought it would be redundant to include that one, since it just restates a more specific part of what you already said. Plus drag would have to go edit the image again to include it for no extra information, and give everyone more to read. Drag is thankful however that you did send that message, and drag has posted it elsewhere when other users argued the 196 ban was for “promoting suicide”, which didn’t happen, and as you say here, wasn’t part of the decision.
But thank you anyway for the extra context and direct confirmation.
If you really expect people to believe you’re not the troll that you are, maybe don’t bring your bullshit into discussions that have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Your little “inb4 drama” is exactly the type of shit you do to stir the pot. It’s entirely unnecessary and extremely disruptive and you have a very bad reputation of doing exactly this.
I dare you to go one week without turning the topic of discussion into something that involves you being a victim.
We are having a discussion about whether society allows people to say to punch nazis. Drag shared a relevant piece of information about a community on this platform that bans the behaviour. Drag predicted the same old people would come onto this thread to spread lies about drag, and put drag’s response to them in spoilers. What do you know, you and spujb came to harass drag just as expected. If you wanted to “gotcha” drag, you could have just not replied, and drag would have looked the fool. But now everyone can see that just as expected, you couldn’t resist coming to start an argument that has nothing to do with punching nazis.
You were banned for telling people to kill themselves. You’re a troll. Everyone knows this.
And private message me again with your nonsense and I’m reporting you to your home instance admins.
To clarify, this user didn’t just say “punch Nazis”; this user told a disabled person to commit an act of gun violence that would most likely result in death. Some mods have called that encouraging suicide by cop. Other mods have simply said that inciting a specific act of violence is against the rules. In every instance, though, it’s been modded, because it’s disgusting behavior.
Just clearing up the lies because I am sick of it.
This user did say “punch nazis”, and here’s the proof:
If you want to decide why drag is banned from 196, then apply to be a mod of 196.
You are formally requested to leave drag alone. The next time you reply to drag to spread lies about this, drag will report you for harassment and speak with the Blahaj and .cafe admins.
Corrected; added “just”
Thank you. There’s still another falsehood in your comment, though. You said “Some mods have called that encouraging suicide by cop.”, but as far as drag knows, only Ada has said that. Ada isn’t a mod, she’s an admin. She has no say in 196’s rules, so her opinion isn’t relevant to whether 196 allows nazi-punching. She decided not to ban drag from the instance for that comment, and drag doesn’t think she’d be happy to hear you’re harassing drag over it.
Drag is willing to have a discussion if you’re willing to stay factually accurate. But let’s keep this on topic to the Nazi punching issue. If you want to talk about Ada’s opinions, let’s do that in private messages to avoid disrupting this thread any more.
https://imgur.com/a/4Xf3c6N this was done by a mod in [email protected]
Edited. Glad to be of service.
Most of us are still ok with it, but we won’t be the ones to do it. There aren’t enough that will.
The US will have a “Revolution of Dignity” moment similar to Ukraine.
If pro-constitution side wins, trump (and leading maga leaders) will flee to russia.
But if the maga wins, the US will remain a fascist nation for decades.
It’s not written in cosmic law that this will occur. The circumstance are certainly leaning in that direction though.
They learned from 2020. So must any opposition evolve. But yeah, moving away from fascism is going to take some blood on both sides. Arguably better than sticking with it where only one side’s blood is shed.
A general strike is probably the best place to start. There’s still a lot that needs to happen to get the placated middle to see the need for more aggressive means.
UAW is organizing one for 2028.
2028 might as well be 3028, feels like
Most could not afford to stop working or buying anything for a stretch of time and this is to prepare for that.
You are correct in your noticing Democrats have been the party of decorum - and that’s the penultimate refuge of the incompetent before violence. So, now we’ve established that the two-ply paper-thin veneer of legitimacy has unraveled, what should we do?
There are ways out of this. None of them are easy.
Vote with your wallet, vote in primaries. Go to community board meetings. Speak up, even if you’re afraid of what anyone might think. More people will respect you for trying than you’d think, but don’t waste the opportunity on something trivial.
Don’t do business with anyone with destructive politics to the point where it causes you personal/professional inconvenience and costs your money. Support local communities. Talk to the guy on the street corner you always see but never approached. Maybe they can tell you something. Talk to the guy that makes your sandwiches at the store, your bartender, your barista, your cleaning lady, your laundromat people. Hell talk to your drug dealer/street pharmacist. Talk to your coworkers and don’t be scared. If they snitch then you will know indicators better for next time, and trust me - you will survive the mistake. Maybe it’s BS, maybe you’ll realize there’s an angle to help yourself and everyone else. Never do anything unless it helps more people than yourself, and doesn’t have an obvious negative externality that you can account for.
Go to rallies, go to meetings. Show support in public for people you believe in, someone standing up next to you when you stick your neck out counts for more than you can possibly understand. Put yourself on the front line facing armed police. Make the point that you won’t break, and that they can’t scare you. Remain nonviolent until you have no other option, but be prepared when they invent reasons to hurt you withing reason - and remember that they may have thought they never had a choice (even if they did).
This is going to get ugly.
The next time someone annoys or inconveniences you, or says something provocative, ask yourself why, and ask yourself what personal hell they are living in made them do that?
If this sounds a lot like religious nonsense, that’s exactly what it is. That stuff was (arguably flawed and wantonly misinterpreted) attempts to give people a map going forwards. We’ve been putting in an abysmal effort to do better for not only ourselves, but everyone else, and now everyone’s hurting. Some people you can’t help, they’re so stuck into their monomaniacal vision of reality that they don’t care who they’re hurting, even if it’s ultimately themselves through consequence or some other metaphysical mechanism whether you believe in it or not.
Find a community, build a community. Be a leader and set a better example for everyone around you.
It may already be too late but your actions going forwards from here will determine what survives, and whether THAT is worth saving.
And remember - it’s not just humans. There are many other living beings on this planet that don’t have the technological capacity, legal status or physical ability to make themselves heard, and our status demands at very least the acknowledgement of some form of responsible stewardship.
Good Luck.
To all of us.
Emigration or civil war, I’d wager. My home country will be a fascist state during my lifetime, as I’ve been saying for about three to four years.
The two parties tango. The Republicans wouldn’t be getting away with it if the Democrats weren’t beholden to the same moneyed interests.
Did Obama prosecute any of the Bush Jr officials guilty of torture and guilty of invading Iraq over a lie? Worse Obama committed more war crimes.
But why is there a two party tango?
Democrats will implement some policies and laws and then see support collapse as Republicans get voted in. Then people who didn’t vote will complain that Republicans got voted in and dismantled what Democrats were able to do.
I have no idea, but I think something will have to happen that affects the majority of Americans. Another sustained Depression for example. Republicans will have to crash and burn the country down before their voters will turn on them. They have to experience pain for themselves, for they have no empathy for others. They say they do, but they cannot. They say they are Christian, but turn their back on what they say his teachings are. I’m fed up and scared at the same time. I hit retirement age in less than 10 years. Social security won’t be there for me. I did a terrible job of saving, I spent most of my paychecks on frivolous things like bills, rent, and food. I make good money now, but it’s not enough. I know I’m yelling into the void, but it feels good to say it.
Republicans are already poor and victimized. But all they watch is political propaganda (Fox News, Newsmax, OANN, etc) so they blame it on immigrants and trans people instead of the rich who are robbing them blind.
Need to reorganize liberal politics from the ground up. Liberals need to justify their existence and the value of their policies at the city and state level and use that to build a national brand. Democrats in federal government seem to be totally unwilling to push their agenda in deference to political norms, but in my state they get quite a lot done when they’re in power
I disagree. Just by going off margins of past elections the last decade. Dems tend to have more loyal voters in non presidential years.
Right now, not much can done, but ideas will change over time as the people holding the old ideas eventually die from age.
In my opinion, the current shitshow is actually a sign of old ideas dying. It’ll take time, but I don’t believe the Project 2025 will be successful. It’s happening brutally right now, but it will fail, because it’s being done with only very slim support from the population.
Seems like a lot of support honestly.
It’s an illusion. Not that many people care (which was the problem in November), but the ones who do are loud about it.
The issue is one of education. The Republicans have been spewing non-stop misinformation, and the populace is too uneducated to understand the difference. When people actually know what’s going on and understand it, they overwhelmingly oppose conservative policies. Which is why Project 2025 wants to take a sledgehammer to public education.
If Democrats diverted all of their advertising budget toward remedial education of the electorate, I think they’d find themselves in a much better state in 2028.
Let’s not forget that Republicans have been cutting school funding for decades. The people are uneducated by design and for this exact purpose.
Armed revolution by the workers
Armed being the key word here. Show them what the left actually does with weapons.
War.
Maybe. How are we going to responsibly fight one?
