So do I understand correctly that on this globe you can only be against genocide of the Palestinians if you live in an authoritarian country like China, Iran, Russia, etc.?
Obviously in those countries you can’t be against their own genocides like the Uhigers, Ukrainians, etc. But somehow when it comes to Israel the rest of the world seems to not dare being against genocide?
Is is because the US is so powerful that they fear reprecusions? Or why is that?
My biggest issue is Americans. Half of Americans support genocide, the other half want to moralize and lead the charge against it, which just comes off as hypocrisy considering i didn’t even get so much as an apology for all the bombings and invasions my country took by Americans. Now Americans are moralizing to my brown indigenous ass about colonialism and genocide and acting like once again Americans should lead this movement, which only cheapens it. Americans need to get in the back of the line and shut the fuck up. Support but leave your moralizing at home, and “I wasn’t personally the one who bombed you” is not an excuse for Israelis so it’s not one for Americans either. You guys fucked half the world and now you wanna move on and leave it in the past so you don’t have to take collective responsibility
Edit: getting downvoted by Americans who don’t like non whites calling them out for their bullshit. Biggest terrorist nation on earth
And 99% of us vote for it every two years, because both ruling parties are warmongers.
But what gets me the most is that half of voters’ opinions on war change depending on who’s in power. The folks who are so anti-war right now would fully support it if Harris were in office, and that changing of opinions based on political convenience and nothing else just infuriates me. They still defend Obama’s bloodied hands even though he was bombing seven different countries while in office. (That we know of)
None of the 2 mentioned are genocided.
And the fact you’re commenting about China, Iran, Russia, etc. neing authoritarian while there’s full on censorship in the west about this post is typical.
You’re part of the deluded, pretentious 10% of the world calling themselves ‘the international community’ with ‘their western values’.
Already hated for centuries of imperialism and now this total support for genocidal maniacs.
Anyone in touch with people outside of the western online community knows they will not forget this either.
Most estimates range from 15-30 million. A smaller proportion of the population than the Irish potato famine which was caused by British mismanagement but I don’t hear that talked about as a reason why capitalism is terrible much.
I don’t hear that talked about as a reason why capitalism is terrible much.
Probably because the overwhelming majority of people agree it was bad, especially here on lemmy. Find me 5 people that say the potato famine was good, actually, and I’ll find you 3 entire instances that’ll ban me for saying “maybe killing 15-30 million people for societal progress isn’t the best strategy.”
Tankies get more pushback here because nobody is singing the praises of capitalism.
Yeah people agree the famine in China was bad too. Even Mao and other officials in China agreed there were mistakes and made changes afterwards. Are you aware China experienced devastating famines on average of once a century for the previous 2000 years before that? There hasn’t been a famine since then.
Brazil, Colombia, league of Arab counties, Norway, Sweden. Even Germany and France have expressed concern. The EU as whole is flagging that free trade agreements may be annulled due to war crimes.
Yes. Germany have been most supportive of Israel, as they misguidedly want to protect Jews, rather than people from genocide, to overcompensate for past actions. However, even there, the tide has turned and some politicians are making statements against Israel and her actions.
The league of Arab nations. I think it is a body representing 50ish Islamic nations.
German politicians have until recently been saying that Israel is justified. They are now making statements that Israel has overstepped the line. Most people already see that. However, the point is about whether criticism of Israel is allowed. It is, both by people and politicians. There are also instances of EU(Irish) citizens being deported due to Palestine support. I purposely was pointing to mistakes most staunch supporter, to show that their support is diminishing.
Yes, there has been dancing since the October attack. Exactly my point. Criticism is not banned. Support for Israel is aiding genocide at this point. It seems the countries who support Israel most are those that sell them military supplies.
the point is about whether criticism of Israel is allowed. It is, both by people and politicians.
May I remind you that we’re discussing this on a post about how an Australian woman in Australia was viciously beaten by state actors (cops) for engaging in criticism of Israel.
There are also instances of EU(Irish) citizens being deported due to Palestine support.
Again, if someone’s being deported for criticizing Israel, I don’t think that really qualifies as “criticism is allowed”. In theory, I’m sure it is. In practice is a very different beast.
Yes, in a thread about global permissions to criticize. As it happens a friend of a friends knows her as she’s active in the green party. She (the victim) was there as a legal observer, and is a lawyer, so very unlikely she was doing anything to warrant the assault.
So, to answer your point, despite the post being about Australia, this thread is about the global response.
I agree, deportation if an EU citizen is unusual. That happened months ago. My point is that the tide has turned, even in Germany. It’s been permitted elsewhere indefinitely. The deportation was a sign of Gen breaking norms to support. There were also indications that of netanyahu came to France or Germany, he wouldn’t be arrested. There were also indications that he would, so he didn’t dare. Just like Putin hasn’t.
In Sydney, where this assault happened there are weekly peaceful pro-palesrinian protests in Hyde park since the October 7th response. So, are you trying to say criticism or Israel is not permitted in Australia, based on this, or just trying to shift the goalposts again?
I wasn’t concentrating specifically on Aus either, just pointing out that a prominent member of “the west” is brutally attempting to silence dissent, which they are. Yes, I am trying to say that criticism of Israel isn’t looked upon kindly in Australia – or in France, or in Germany, or in Italy, or in the Netherlands – and there’s no dearth of police brutality to be had in the US and Canada either.
As for arresting Netanyahu, Belgium and Hungary have straight up said they’ll be doing no such thing, and Greece was more than happy to welcome him despite there being an ICC arrest warrant out for him. Germany’s obviously not going to arrest him, France has done everything possible to be as lily-livered and non-committal about it as possible while backtracking on Palestinian recognition.
So no, it hasn’t “been permitted” indefinitely. The tide is turning amongst the people, but governments are still being as heavy-handed and militaristic as possible to shield their genocidaire buddies and the military contracts they bring.
Genocide doesnt require direct killing. Forced sterilization and destruction of cultural identity is also genocide.
From Wikipedia:
“the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group” by means such as “the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence”.
And there is plenty of documented proof of that. To deny that is to deny your own ability to see, read and think.
Literally thousands of news organizations from left to right, old to new, small to large have reported on this. There are uncountable numbers of reports and pieces of evidence from texts to pictures to audio and video recordings to witness reports.
If you ask me about some specific source, then you already know that what i have said is true and you are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. If you know the name Adrian Zenz, then you know how to read a Wikipedia article.
Watched an interesting take from one of the Chinese politician or whatever they are called there.
He was blaming the US imperial forces causing turmoil in Afghanistan which leaked into the Chinese side and fumed some of the locals now wanting to split from China and wanting their own nation. Pollie said their leader is an american citizen.
So I guess china has been detaining these people? Who knows.
So do I understand correctly that on this globe you can only be against genocide of the Palestinians if you live in an authoritarian country like China, Iran, Russia, etc.?
Obviously in those countries you can’t be against their own genocides like the Uhigers, Ukrainians, etc. But somehow when it comes to Israel the rest of the world seems to not dare being against genocide?
Is is because the US is so powerful that they fear reprecusions? Or why is that?
You are overlooking Ireland. They support the Palestinians.
That’s because they are very familiar with having a neighbor with a mindset like Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
It’s because we are in the worst timeline. Evil has won in this para-dimension.
I think you’ll find Western countries don’t need much of an excuse to support colonial genocide.
My biggest issue is Americans. Half of Americans support genocide, the other half want to moralize and lead the charge against it, which just comes off as hypocrisy considering i didn’t even get so much as an apology for all the bombings and invasions my country took by Americans. Now Americans are moralizing to my brown indigenous ass about colonialism and genocide and acting like once again Americans should lead this movement, which only cheapens it. Americans need to get in the back of the line and shut the fuck up. Support but leave your moralizing at home, and “I wasn’t personally the one who bombed you” is not an excuse for Israelis so it’s not one for Americans either. You guys fucked half the world and now you wanna move on and leave it in the past so you don’t have to take collective responsibility
Edit: getting downvoted by Americans who don’t like non whites calling them out for their bullshit. Biggest terrorist nation on earth
And 99% of us vote for it every two years, because both ruling parties are warmongers.
But what gets me the most is that half of voters’ opinions on war change depending on who’s in power. The folks who are so anti-war right now would fully support it if Harris were in office, and that changing of opinions based on political convenience and nothing else just infuriates me. They still defend Obama’s bloodied hands even though he was bombing seven different countries while in office. (That we know of)
It absolutely is, for both.
You don’t get to reap the rewards of colonialism and war while dodging all the responsibilities
I have the feeling Israel is a US puppet state that is being used to take control over the Middle East. (And destroy Islam while they are at it)
None of the 2 mentioned are genocided.
And the fact you’re commenting about China, Iran, Russia, etc. neing authoritarian while there’s full on censorship in the west about this post is typical.
You’re part of the deluded, pretentious 10% of the world calling themselves ‘the international community’ with ‘their western values’.
Already hated for centuries of imperialism and now this total support for genocidal maniacs.
Anyone in touch with people outside of the western online community knows they will not forget this either.
Agreed. Plus those are rookie numbers. Mao killed at least 40 million people on accident. Imagine what he could do if he put effort in.
Do you have a source for that number other than a CIA funded think-tank?
Please give me the real numbers, comrade.
Most estimates range from 15-30 million. A smaller proportion of the population than the Irish potato famine which was caused by British mismanagement but I don’t hear that talked about as a reason why capitalism is terrible much.
Hell yeah Mao stays winning.
Probably because the overwhelming majority of people agree it was bad, especially here on lemmy. Find me 5 people that say the potato famine was good, actually, and I’ll find you 3 entire instances that’ll ban me for saying “maybe killing 15-30 million people for societal progress isn’t the best strategy.”
Tankies get more pushback here because nobody is singing the praises of capitalism.
Yeah people agree the famine in China was bad too. Even Mao and other officials in China agreed there were mistakes and made changes afterwards. Are you aware China experienced devastating famines on average of once a century for the previous 2000 years before that? There hasn’t been a famine since then.
Say that on the triad I fucking dare you.
Under a system with significant capitalist elements, you western dog. How many billionaires are there in China?
you people are pathetic
I’m many countries, yes, in many ots controversial. In others the political class is against the genocide, including Western countries.
Other than Spain and Ireland, which ones?
Brazil, Colombia, league of Arab counties, Norway, Sweden. Even Germany and France have expressed concern. The EU as whole is flagging that free trade agreements may be annulled due to war crimes.
Didn’t Germany just veto the suspension? https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2025-06-23/germany-against-suspending-eu-deal-with-israel-official-says
Yes. Germany have been most supportive of Israel, as they misguidedly want to protect Jews, rather than people from genocide, to overcompensate for past actions. However, even there, the tide has turned and some politicians are making statements against Israel and her actions.
Which Arab countries? Every single one has been quiet, and some have been actively aiding the genocide.
To what end? Germany’s been militant in its support, and France shrank away from actively censuring the genocidaires every chance they got.
They’ve been doing that dance for over a year. What has come of it?
The league of Arab nations. I think it is a body representing 50ish Islamic nations.
German politicians have until recently been saying that Israel is justified. They are now making statements that Israel has overstepped the line. Most people already see that. However, the point is about whether criticism of Israel is allowed. It is, both by people and politicians. There are also instances of EU(Irish) citizens being deported due to Palestine support. I purposely was pointing to mistakes most staunch supporter, to show that their support is diminishing.
Yes, there has been dancing since the October attack. Exactly my point. Criticism is not banned. Support for Israel is aiding genocide at this point. It seems the countries who support Israel most are those that sell them military supplies.
May I remind you that we’re discussing this on a post about how an Australian woman in Australia was viciously beaten by state actors (cops) for engaging in criticism of Israel.
Again, if someone’s being deported for criticizing Israel, I don’t think that really qualifies as “criticism is allowed”. In theory, I’m sure it is. In practice is a very different beast.
Yes, in a thread about global permissions to criticize. As it happens a friend of a friends knows her as she’s active in the green party. She (the victim) was there as a legal observer, and is a lawyer, so very unlikely she was doing anything to warrant the assault.
So, to answer your point, despite the post being about Australia, this thread is about the global response.
I agree, deportation if an EU citizen is unusual. That happened months ago. My point is that the tide has turned, even in Germany. It’s been permitted elsewhere indefinitely. The deportation was a sign of Gen breaking norms to support. There were also indications that of netanyahu came to France or Germany, he wouldn’t be arrested. There were also indications that he would, so he didn’t dare. Just like Putin hasn’t.
In Sydney, where this assault happened there are weekly peaceful pro-palesrinian protests in Hyde park since the October 7th response. So, are you trying to say criticism or Israel is not permitted in Australia, based on this, or just trying to shift the goalposts again?
I wasn’t concentrating specifically on Aus either, just pointing out that a prominent member of “the west” is brutally attempting to silence dissent, which they are. Yes, I am trying to say that criticism of Israel isn’t looked upon kindly in Australia – or in France, or in Germany, or in Italy, or in the Netherlands – and there’s no dearth of police brutality to be had in the US and Canada either.
As for arresting Netanyahu, Belgium and Hungary have straight up said they’ll be doing no such thing, and Greece was more than happy to welcome him despite there being an ICC arrest warrant out for him. Germany’s obviously not going to arrest him, France has done everything possible to be as lily-livered and non-committal about it as possible while backtracking on Palestinian recognition.
So no, it hasn’t “been permitted” indefinitely. The tide is turning amongst the people, but governments are still being as heavy-handed and militaristic as possible to shield their genocidaire buddies and the military contracts they bring.
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Genocide doesnt require direct killing. Forced sterilization and destruction of cultural identity is also genocide.
From Wikipedia:
And there is plenty of documented proof of that. To deny that is to deny your own ability to see, read and think.
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So you admit to not being able to do any of those three?
Here have fun reading ~400 sources ranging from pre 2000 to present day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China#References
Literally thousands of news organizations from left to right, old to new, small to large have reported on this. There are uncountable numbers of reports and pieces of evidence from texts to pictures to audio and video recordings to witness reports.
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If you ask me about some specific source, then you already know that what i have said is true and you are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. If you know the name Adrian Zenz, then you know how to read a Wikipedia article.
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What do you mean by prove? This person just copy and pasted the definition.
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Why?
Because they are trying to catch people in a bad faith argument about the validity of specific individual sources.
If one of them tries to walk out, do they just let them?
Watched an interesting take from one of the Chinese politician or whatever they are called there.
He was blaming the US imperial forces causing turmoil in Afghanistan which leaked into the Chinese side and fumed some of the locals now wanting to split from China and wanting their own nation. Pollie said their leader is an american citizen. So I guess china has been detaining these people? Who knows.
This is their loincloth of a justification for the genocide, yes.
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