Polls are a great way to get the answers you want. I don’t know what the pollsters wanted, but to me the question in question is skewed, because one is a state while the other is an organisation.
“In the Israel-Hamas conflict, do you support more Israel or more Hamas?”
So my answer would’ve been “I support Palestinians in their struggle to have their own country again over Israel which is clearly on an aggressively expansionist rampage.”
Since that isn’t an option I can refuse to answer the stupid poll, or say I support Hamas.
Shouldn’t we explain the nature & history of the struggle instead?
edit: obvious pro/contra Hamas discussion ensues. But IMO it’s moot - at least for the foreseeable future - because Israel is so obviously the much bigger monster here, and has been for a long while, and because denying a nation the right to exist simply is not acceptable.
While you’re not wrong, I think framing it as “israel-hamas” rather than “israel-palestine” is the least favourable framing available (for a supporter of Palestine) without resorting to really obvious leading questions.
As such, seeing a majority opinion against Israel is encouraging. I’d expect a more nuanced survey to swing more heavily against Israel
MartinSands point is that even though GenZ probably don’t support Hamas murdering civilians, they still consider their struggle as more virtuous than Israel when given no other option; meaning support for Palestine is likely much higher than the poll suggests.
I thought you were implying that the survey was so unreliable that we couldn’t reach any conclusions about support for Israel, or the lack thereof. I was trying to point out that we could (tenuously) reach at least one conclusion.
Hamas are just a group of men whos families were blown up by the IDF. not saying their actions after are not evil but I understand their mindset. If the world has condemned you and your people to death simply for existing, what other options do they have?
I get that 100%. I have said it about MAGAs in America. I have people very close to me who are members of vulnerable groups that MAGA is targeting. If ANYTHING was to happen to them, I would become very dangerous indeed. That’s a bright red line for me.
This. Only time I’ve ever been violent is when someone harms a person I love. I’m letting MAGA know now. Fuck around and I promise I’ll be your find out.
Stop shifting the blame. Netanyahu admitted sabotaging the Oslo accords . The PLO accepted the term of Oslo they stop attacking Israel and acknowledged Israel as a state . How Israel thanked them? They did by expending illegal settlements, arming settlers and defend them when they commit terrorism against west bankers. The PA collaborate with israel while trash talking them . Once israel decide to completely annex west bank the PA leaders will all get murdered by israel
Yeah, after Hamas helped Netanyahu into the PM seat with their bombing campaign to stop the peace process, he was able to sabotage it all he wanted, mainly by fully backing the settlement movement. But my point is: what if Hamas wouldn’t have done so?
Israelis voted for Netanyahu because they are ok with the occupation. You love to make it just about Netanyahu but all the other Israeli prime minister are war criminals
what if Hamas wouldn’t have done so?
Israel would still have continued occupation and building illegal settlements because it is still ruled by the supremacist Zionist ideology
Netanyahu was down more than 20% after the peace accords had been signed. Hamas’ string of bomb attacks in the runup to the election helped him to narrowly win the vote by 0.5%
Sure, replacing the government that ran on continuing the peace process by one that vowed to end it didn´t make any difference. History is just a red fog that doesn´t really matter, does it
I repeat all israeli prime minister was war criminal who brutalized Palestinians . Even most Israeli population do not give a damn about Palestinians so no hamas is not the reason why israel is still occupying Palestine and are committing a genocide
Uhhhhhh what? Not saying what this men did wasn’t evil, but there’s very few men on this earth that wouldn’t retaliate when his people are being slaughtered. Did you know the Nazie’s labeled partisan Fighters in their occupied territories terrorists too!?
Exactly. I don’t care if Hamas is wiped out, they’re objectively awful, it’s the Palestinians getting killed in the crossfire that’s the issue.
Of course, they aren’t really getting caught in the crossfire, they are the targets. Israel is just using Hamas as an excuse to throw bombs around residential areas, hospitals, and schools.
Polls are a great way to get the answers you want. I don’t know what the pollsters wanted, but to me the question in question is skewed, because one is a state while the other is an organisation.
So my answer would’ve been “I support Palestinians in their struggle to have their own country again over Israel which is clearly on an aggressively expansionist rampage.”
Since that isn’t an option I can refuse to answer the stupid poll, or say I support Hamas.
Shouldn’t we explain the nature & history of the struggle instead?
edit: obvious pro/contra Hamas discussion ensues. But IMO it’s moot - at least for the foreseeable future - because Israel is so obviously the much bigger monster here, and has been for a long while, and because denying a nation the right to exist simply is not acceptable.
While you’re not wrong, I think framing it as “israel-hamas” rather than “israel-palestine” is the least favourable framing available (for a supporter of Palestine) without resorting to really obvious leading questions.
As such, seeing a majority opinion against Israel is encouraging. I’d expect a more nuanced survey to swing more heavily against Israel
Isn’t that exactly what I said? Maybe my phrasing is off.
MartinSands point is that even though GenZ probably don’t support Hamas murdering civilians, they still consider their struggle as more virtuous than Israel when given no other option; meaning support for Palestine is likely much higher than the poll suggests.
I thought you were implying that the survey was so unreliable that we couldn’t reach any conclusions about support for Israel, or the lack thereof. I was trying to point out that we could (tenuously) reach at least one conclusion.
You said it right.
It’s not that 60% support Hamas, it’s that 60% oppose Israel
Hamas are just a group of men whos families were blown up by the IDF. not saying their actions after are not evil but I understand their mindset. If the world has condemned you and your people to death simply for existing, what other options do they have?
I get that 100%. I have said it about MAGAs in America. I have people very close to me who are members of vulnerable groups that MAGA is targeting. If ANYTHING was to happen to them, I would become very dangerous indeed. That’s a bright red line for me.
This. Only time I’ve ever been violent is when someone harms a person I love. I’m letting MAGA know now. Fuck around and I promise I’ll be your find out.
They´re also just a group of men who´ve blown up other families to stop the Oslo Accords
Stop shifting the blame. Netanyahu admitted sabotaging the Oslo accords . The PLO accepted the term of Oslo they stop attacking Israel and acknowledged Israel as a state . How Israel thanked them? They did by expending illegal settlements, arming settlers and defend them when they commit terrorism against west bankers. The PA collaborate with israel while trash talking them . Once israel decide to completely annex west bank the PA leaders will all get murdered by israel
Yeah, after Hamas helped Netanyahu into the PM seat with their bombing campaign to stop the peace process, he was able to sabotage it all he wanted, mainly by fully backing the settlement movement. But my point is: what if Hamas wouldn’t have done so?
DARVO shit…
Israelis voted for Netanyahu because they are ok with the occupation. You love to make it just about Netanyahu but all the other Israeli prime minister are war criminals
Israel would still have continued occupation and building illegal settlements because it is still ruled by the supremacist Zionist ideology
Netanyahu was down more than 20% after the peace accords had been signed. Hamas’ string of bomb attacks in the runup to the election helped him to narrowly win the vote by 0.5%
Yeah, Netanyahu is the only zionist in the Israeli government, and had he not won that specific election, then the Palestinians would be free. 🙄
Sure, replacing the government that ran on continuing the peace process by one that vowed to end it didn´t make any difference. History is just a red fog that doesn´t really matter, does it
I repeat all israeli prime minister was war criminal who brutalized Palestinians . Even most Israeli population do not give a damn about Palestinians so no hamas is not the reason why israel is still occupying Palestine and are committing a genocide
Uhhhhhh what? Not saying what this men did wasn’t evil, but there’s very few men on this earth that wouldn’t retaliate when his people are being slaughtered. Did you know the Nazie’s labeled partisan Fighters in their occupied territories terrorists too!?
That’s the same justification Bibi uses for his side’s killings
Ya but he has the actual power. That’s the difference.
And
…and do you think that made the world a better place?
Exactly. I don’t care if Hamas is wiped out, they’re objectively awful, it’s the Palestinians getting killed in the crossfire that’s the issue.
Of course, they aren’t really getting caught in the crossfire, they are the targets. Israel is just using Hamas as an excuse to throw bombs around residential areas, hospitals, and schools.