We donāt have a āfirm boundaryā on people being rich. We just donāt have multi-billionaires. Or if we do, theyāre the silent type, not the Musk/Bezos type. And even those are pretty different.
But like, how many multi-billionaires do you know from like Minnesota, āLouisiana, āOregon & āOklahoma?
The progressive taxation we have is for income, not capital gains. So essentially you can never get rich by working, but if youāre just profiting from having a lot of capital (renting properties etc, even airbnb, and tons of other ways for rich people to shift their income from ālabour incomeā to capital gains), then you have a flat 30% tax rate. And if youāre actually a billionaire, youād just shift it all to a tax haven to avoid even the 30%.
Sure, yeah, I agree thereās a certain type of bottom ā insofar that we donāt allow people to die to starvation or the elements ā but thatās a fucking low bar, donāt you think?
I bet youāre one of those people who actually believe Finland is the happiest country in the world. (Itās like North Koreans talking about freedom lol.)
Our ultra-wealthy pay literally nothing in taxes. They take out loans against their holdings, and when they do sell they use losses on paper to offset their gains, so they get away with paying nothing
And most of ours fly under the radar too. Thereās around 300 resorts and compounds worldwide where the billionaires live their social lives away from cameras, not counting their more personal compounds
We do let people die of starvation and to the elements. In fact, we regularly have fights over if poor children deserve to be fed, and the results recently have been ānoā
Lately, weāve been criminalizing homelessness to put a capstone on decades of regularly tearing down whatever shelter they manage to cobble together.
Hell, a church got sued for letting homeless people shelter during a cold snap. People get arrested and charged for feeding the homeless in some places
And donāt get me started on medical careā¦ Itās literally worse than you could imagine. You wouldnāt believe me even if I sugar coated it
Iām sure your life isnāt perfect, but have no idea how bad itās gotten over here. Iād kill for a system as imperfect as the one you take for granted
You probably think Iām exaggerating about all this, but Iām really not. Luckily the administration is incompetent, because otherwise weād be neck deep in a genocide right now. Instead, both of our political parties have settled on mass death, just so long as itās indirect
Sheesh I hate it when Americans are like āyou have no ideaā.
Yes, we do. We have the internet here as well and you canāt really avoid hearing about American shit.
Why would you think I donāt know what a tax-haven when I specifically mentioned that any āproperā billionaires can get around paying even the 30%. And thatās private citizens. Google is equally a tax-avoiding scumbag company for us Nordics as it is for you. Thereās just so many laws the extremely wealthy corps and individuals can use to avoid paying anything. Googleās tax rate is literally zero.
We do let people die of starvation and to the elements
Yes, we know. Hence me explicitly mentioning we donāt?
Lately, weāve been criminalizing homelessness
And thatās clear here as well, despite there being very few homeless and practically none of them live on the street. For some 9 months at least itās mostly too cold to sleep outside. Yet the silly hostile architecture for benches and whatnot has pervaded into the Nordics as well.
We donāt need it, but theyāre still there. So there are people here working on getting rid of even the most basic securities that allow us to function like this. Also, Iām on the same latitude as Juneau, Alaska, about. And Iām in the very SW corner of Finland, on the level of Stockholm.
Does Alaska have a large homeless population? I doubt anything like in the States where the winters are milder?
People get arrested and charged for feeding the homeless in some places
Iāve seen the videos. Youāre still pretending as if we donāt have selfish people here who would rather just kill all the poor. You at least have people who care and help others. Here in the Nordics, due to there being a system people can point to, personal responsibility for anyone doing badly is extremely small. People are apathetic and just default to āthe system should be helping them.ā
Hell, when I was properly suicidal, my mom literally just went āwell what do you want me to do about itā and called the social workers with a care notice or something. The funny bit being that she is a social worker with higher education. What could she do? Idk, give me a ring sometime, or come to visit so I donāt feel as bad. But no. People just default to āthe bureaucracy will help them, the bureaucracy is infallibleā.
Iād kill for a system as imperfect as the one you take for granted
Except youāve very clearly demonstrated that your assumed version of our system is pure fantasy.
Thereās a reason weāre quite high in the suicide stats. Because weāre definitely not even close to being āthe happiest country in the worldā. I donāt ever remember my grandma laughing. She died cold and alone, hallucinating basically dream paralysis demons. With not even a nurse who wouldāve know her, because the care home was being run down and there were just random nurses for a few shifts and then new ones again.
So I implore you, donāt put the Nordics on a fucking pedestal. Dismissing the problems we have, pretending this is some Lintukoto.
Would you rather be in prison with a dozen of your best mates, or literally forever alone without even the possibility of emotions and if you talk about them, youāll be shunned?
You probably think Iām exaggerating about all this, but Iām really not
Again, just because you donāt know things about the Nordics nor see our news does not mean we donāt see yours.
Whatās the point of competing who has it worse? Thatās literally whataboutism thatās just dismissing Nordic problems. And youāre not even Nordic. Trying to have this discussion with fellow Nords is very hard, because lots and lots literally wonāt allow themselves even an inch of wrong-think.
Our police seem very skilled, donāt they? I never had problems with them, always good interactions. Then I got arrested for weed. They put me in an isolation cell for 3 days while denying me my prescription medication, the lights were on constantly and there wasnāt even a mattress to sleep on or a blanket. Just the cold ground. Was the cell prolly cleaner than average jail cells in the US? Probably.
But would I be able to sue the shit ouf of them for literally torturing me, breaking Geneva conventions? At one point they turned of my water for hours. I have a congenital kidney malformation and due to that slight inefficiency in left kidney so I must keep good hydration.
I drew over 300 words in my own blood on the walls.
In the US thereād be a queue of lawyers on my door for all the violations, and Iād be looking at tens of thousands to millions in compensation.
Here in Finland, I canāt literally even get people to accept it happened. The only one who does is my therapist and he was born and raised in the UK only moved here later in life.
So we really donāt have to compete which sort of horror is the worst.
In the US, Iād probably be on the streets or in prison. But after years of literal solitude and nothing else, Iād actually welcome it. My own fucking mother went āweeeelll, you know, I canāt actually now what happened in the cellā when I phoned her to cry about my injuries and the injustice of it all. She implied it was my own fault that the police tortured me. And thatās the most anyoneās spoken to me about it. Finns always decline and refute it at first, then when I produce some photos (I only have those because they claimed I vandalised the cell. We then asked for the security cam footage as evidence of the crime. Weirdly it was suddenly completely lost and the charges dropped.
I would rather get beaten up and kicked than do that again. But again, both suck, theyāre just different. So whatās the point in competing who has it worse and by how much?
Thereās clearly problems in both places. Iām not critical of everything in the Nordics, but nor am I critical of everything America either, despite having been actively arguing against your foreign policies and criticising you in general for a few decades online.
And donāt get me started on medical careā¦ Itās literally worse than you could imagine. You wouldnāt believe me even if I sugar coated it
Do you think the free healthcare here is some superior quality? No. The best in classes go to private clinics, the worst end up in the public system. And the wait times are ridiculous. Some of the doctors have confidently said things that are just plain untrue. I could genuinely list 30+ years of bad experiences in the public healthcare system. Sure itās not bankrupting me, but itās also not doing jack shit for anything and genuinely gets like 80% of their guesses wrong when itās even the least bit subjective. You wouldnāt believe half the shit Iāve heard from supposed āprofessionalsā.
So again, every different, but neither is good, is it? So donāt think youād ākillā to switch places with me, when Iāve spent a good deal of the past few years considering just killing myself.
I get what youāre saying, and Iām not comparing personal experiences at all, that sounds horrible. If I thought the Nordic countries were some kind paradise, Iād be working my ass off to get there. I get that the entire world is being worn down by the billionaires
But you still donāt get itā¦ If you lived here, your worst 3 days is something common for people who fall through the cracks. There are people kept in similar conditions for months or years at a time. Including for just having a small amount of weed
And itās legal to do this in a lot of places. It isnāt something they have to cover up, they might not even need to justify it with a reason.
Hell, lots of people take pride in the cruelty to ācriminalsā.
And you donāt understand our medical systemā¦ Our outcomes are terrible. Your unhelpful free healthcare has better outcomes than what we go into lifelong debt for
And your medsā¦ Depending on what you need, it could be hundreds of dollars a month, sometimes even with insurance. Without it, thereās no upper limit, many drugs are in the thousandsā¦ Youād have to jump through hoops with the drug companies and hope they give you enough of a discount
So yeahā¦ You probably would be dead. And if you werenāt, youād be just as alone, and more battered by your experiences
I get why you feel otherwise. Part of me craves disaster, because at least then it would justify my suffering. At least then my struggles would be less abstract. Itās very normal to feel that way when you donāt have hope in the future
But if weāre talking about economic and legal systems, you canāt throw your hands up and say āevery system has problemsā. Obviously they do. But if you want hope, and to build political momentum, you have to convince people something better is possible. And perfect or not, the Nordic model exists
On a personal level, the best advice I can give you is to fight. Find an organization pushing for people falling through the cracks, and get involved with them in whatever way you can. Whether that results in change or not, being around others who believe in the same things and doing something about it builds hope
How do you know about the world. Through media. Most of your information is from media, not first hand experiences. Unfortunately for you, the media is full of stuff about the US and only occasionally maybe mentions Finland.
Itās the same sort of disparity as there is with language.
You might as well be saying āyou havenāt lived in an English-speaking country so you canāt be fluent in English!ā
I started reading English roughly 25-30 years ago. The point being that I was exposed to it ever since I was a kid. And I leaned into learning it. Most of the people in Finland do not have my language skills, albeit everyone has a basic level of English understanding. The same goes for the US.
Or how many States have you been in? All 50? Doubt it. A dozen? Or maybe just a handful of cities?
And you donāt understand our medical systemā¦
I understand your lack of education. Otherwise you might understand, after several times of repeating it, that I actually do know how about your country and itās systems.
Aside from being bombarded with American news day and night everywhere, I actually go out of my way to watch news shows like Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, but I can already hear you mocking about how āTV isnāt real lifeā, despite the fact that you get most of your news from it as well. Somehow itās just iiiimpossible to understand shit like wounds getting treated with literally just sugar in federal prisons. Sure that was a random case but the episode about it gives context on why itās a good example.
Hell, itās completely possible that (aside from taxes paid) Iāve done more for the US than any random American I meet online. Just out of my age, so Iāve have been online for quite a while, and the amount of activism I do online. I used to be 9001 times more militant about American global policies and the drug war, but also against Trump ever since he first stood for president. And while you can dismiss online activity as ājust [whateverlameexcuse]ā, thatās how things progress. By people complaining.
And your medsā¦ Depending on what you need, it could be hundreds of dollars a month, sometimes even with insurance. Without it, thereās no upper limit, many drugs are in the thousandsā¦ Youād have to jump through hoops with the drug companies and hope they give you enough of a discount
Do you genuinely think that this is the first Iām hearing of drugs (and healthcare in general) being insanely expensive in the US? You genuinely think I wouldnāt understand a meme about Americans avoiding taking an ambulance even when theyāre very much in need? You think Iād just goā¦ āI donāt get the joke o.oā?
And if you werenāt, youād be just as alone
You donāt know me at all. I make friends extremely easily, alway have. The thing here is "you have NO IDEA* about Finnish culture, because the only time youāve been exposed to it is some random henchman in a movie where an action hero is going/coming from Russia. And they never even bother to get anyone who actually speaks Finnish, itās always gibberish or extremely poorly pronounced. (Imagine a deep southern accent someone trying to read Chinese without understanding the tones at all and youāll get close to what it sounds like to us).
You donāt understand that Iāve chosen to avoid the people who wonāt stand up to injustice. And thatās about the only criteria I have in adulthood. But for instance an American does not understand what it means to smoke weed in Finland.
Itās essentially similar to being gay in an extremely conservative and religious small town. Youāll get treated as the worst cock-sucking crack whore just for saying āI donāt think weed should be illegal.ā And that is not an exaggeration Iām pulling out of my arse. If you understood Finnish I could share phonecalls with medical professionals who basically say that smoking weed on the weekends is literally as bad as shooting up heroine. One refused to give me meds, saying āyouāll just sell these for drug moneyā. One of the friends whom I grew up with, whom I have carried out of several parties, from one in a rolled up mat with him in the center, with his vomit all over. Like some sort of disgusting man-kebab.
Also, if I had lived in the US, I wouldāve actually had the chance to do school at my speed. Which was way faster than the other kids. And you donāt understand it coming from a culture which so values individuality and individual achievement, but in Finland youāre not allowed to be better than others at basic education. I was literally held back because the others werenāt as fast. I taught myself how to read (no joke) at the age of five. So at the age of 7 in first year the teacher put me in an empty classroom by myself, saying āsit here and readā while others learned their letters.
Most Finns actively avoid people as sociable as me, but in the US Iād probably be on the introverted side of the spectrum.
I say I would be dead or in prison, but I also could just be making it big, as I wouldāve definitely got a scholarship to a good school. I had a 9.3/10 (scale 4-10 4 is F 10 is A+) GPA when leaving basic education. What youād call a straight A student. And I didnāt even apply myself, because I didnāt have to. I kept learning next yearās shit from my older brothers books.
I could be in jail for weed. I could be in a state where itās legal. Could be that I wouldāve been bakruptred, or could be Iād be an ace surgeon. (Iām not that interested in surgery tbh, but I was good at dissecting animals, our biology teacher said I was the first student in 20 years to extract a perchās swimbladder without puncturing it and literally said āyouād make a great surgeonā. Couldnāt chase that either as mom forced us to love move that year and had to remake all friends and none of the teachers knew me and it was a way shittier school.)
Anyway, youāre making assumptions which even I canāt say about myself. The reason I say dead or in prison is because I wouldnāt put up with the bullshit politics and wouldve either been tossed to jail for weed or activism or some such. But in the US , I wouldnāt be alone with my sentiment. Thatās why you so enshrine your rights. You actually have a sense of justice. Finns donāt. Finns merely follow rules instead of ever considering how moral or necessary the rules even are.
You can go to a city in Finland during the night when no-one is around for miles, and people will stop at a pedestrian red light, even for intersections that are clearly clear for hundreds of feet.
And I say feet, because I understand feet as well, but I donāt think you have as good a grasp on metric as I do for imperial units. Might be Iām wrong. But seeing how little empathy you show, Iām pretty sure Iām not.
The why I do it is kinda simple. The idea of America, the American dream, or whatever, is ā however subjectively ā kind of a cool idea. Itās a continuation of what the French started a few centuries ago, and it was going relatively well until somewhat recently. (Like, say, post 9-11.) And would you believe it I can remember where I was and what I was doing on 9/11. I donāt think you can say the same thing for anything that has ever happened to a Finnish person or relating to Finland.
But if you want hope, and to build political momentum, you have to convince people something better is possible. And perfect or not, the Nordic model exists
Yes, and the Nordic model isnāt the fantasy you have in your head anymore than a Whopper actually looks like the ad pictures for it.
Iām telling you you donāt have an idea of the pathological avoidance pretty much built into Finnish society. Hell, itās in the very language. We donāt have gendered words or even gender-specific pronouns. And while we have a gender-neutral pronoun, we still often default to referring to people as āseā, which translates as āitā. Only really pets and formal situations does one use the proper third person pronoun āhƤnā.
On a personal level, the best advice I can give you is to fight
Oh wow. What a revelation my man. Wow. Crazy that it never occurred to my. Wow. All I needed to do is āfightā yeah, thatāll change the entire social fabric of Finland. Just like if you want, you can just get everyone to admit that the 2A is a garbage law only there to perpetuate the American military-industrial complex instead of having anything to do with actually having āa well regulated militiaā in order to oppose tyranny. Youāre living under tyranny right now and aside from Luigi, I aināt seen no-one doing jack shit about it.
See how the language there sounded a little different? Thatās because I actually know that despite learning in school that double negatives shouldnāt be used, if one is emulating colloquial speech, one would or at least could employ double negatives as emphasis for a positive. Because again, I donāt need to have lived in the US for that. Idk where you live or how much you travel, but you can probably do at least NY, Cali and deep south accents on a very stereotypical level. So can I. Itās not exactly rocket science. And whilst you live closer to those places, unless youāve lived several years in each, youāre also mostly drawing on the media.
So I donāt know why you keep pretending like your systems are some grand secret. Feels a bit like Americans who yell loudly (in English) abroad to make themselves āeasily understoodā when literally everyone can speak English. (Yes, I did just use āliterallyā as emphasis instead of itās literal sense.)
The Finnish Supreme Court ruled that I was in the right and that the police limited my freedom of speech illegally when stopping me from filming them when they illegally entered my apartment. In the US, Iād have made millions off that. Here I didnāt even get a letter saying I won. Read it off the news.
Also, if I had lived in the US, I wouldāve actually had the chance to do school at my speed. Which was way faster than the other kid
Are you born rich? Because otherwise thatās a fantasy. We are not a meritocracy, no matter how hard we pretend. It doesnāt work that way
And I donāt even know where to start with the rest of thisā¦ Iām on my phone and canāt clip you point by point
But you think youād make it big? Of course you fucking wouldnāt. No one does. Thatās literally impossible. Even last one of our movie and music stars come from money. Every last one of them
Have you ever spoken to homeless people? I have. I make a point of doing it. Iāve slept alongside them, Iāve shared meals. Not through media, but through human connection. And theyāve both been insanely generous and tried to steal from me
Holy projection Batman, you havenāt seen what Iāve seen, not through media, but first-hand.
Who the fuck has said anything about the US being a meritocracy? I havenāt said Finland is authoritarian either. Iāve said itās more authoritarian than it has been. Comparatively.
Just like in comparison to Finland, US is more meritocratic than Finland, despite not being a meritocracy per se.
The requirements are academic preparation (testing ahead in all subjects), emotional maturity and motivation. I got 3/3. When other kids were learning their ABCās, I was browsing thick tomes of dictionaries, giggling at the funny (and magical seeming) Latin names for things. I didnāt like being put into daycare even before going to school, and I was mature enough, so my mom (a trained social worker) left me alone in the house and came to check on me during lunch. I just sat and read. (Mostly comics, not always something to learn but for fun).
And for motivation? Well I had taught myself how to read. Answer I gave an independence day speech that was meant to be read by a sixth grader (the oldest class in lower basic education).
We donāt have skipping grades. If we did, I definitely wouldāve been allowed to.
This is what I mean by you not understanding. You think you do, you want us to be on an equal footing. But weāre not.
MƤ voin vaihtaa kieltƤ ja sun pitƤƤ ottaa AI kƤyttƶƶ et pystyt edes ymmƤrtƤmƤƤ mua. Mut silti luulet jotenkin et mƤ ymmƤrrƤn yhtƤ vƤhƤn sun yhteiskunnasta kun sƤ mun.
Just not true. The US is in the spotlight, has been since WWII at least, and unfortunately while the audience can see the person in the spotlight, the person in the spotlight canāt see the dark audience from the bright lights. This is much like that. You think weāre just like a slightly different America. Weāre not. There are things you donāt understand that you donāt understand, and I donāt know how to make you understand that.
So now youāre just pretending you werenāt wrong at all.
You have skipping grades as a concept and practice with rules and laws.
We donāt.
In the nicest way possible, I think you might have brain damage.
I do understand. Again, Iām very well versed in what itās like in America. Youāre still pretending as if most of your experiences arenāt relayed by types of media. And that I somehow donāt have access to this arcane knowledge about the US.
You could just as well be arguing that I just donāt speak English because itās not the language I first learned. I havenāt lived in an English speaking country or ever even been in one for weeks, let alone years. Yet Iām completely fluent. Hell, the last time I checked, some 10-15 years ago, I had a larger vocabulary than 52% of native speakers.
Yet you childishly keep insisting thereās something I donāt understand.
āNo no, you donāt get it. America has expensive drugs, you havenāt ever heard of how much we spend on drugs.ā
āWe have homeless people!ā
Yes, you also have a military-industrial complex, youāre fucking over your veterans, your cops are murderers, thereās still tons of institutional racism, sexism, ableism, your leader is an ever-lying failure of a businessman whoās going senile and is owned by Putler, two thirds of your population are obese, literacy is like 79%, you have the largest prison population in the world despite not being even close to having the most people, roughly 1% of your adult population is in prison, which too often are for-profit prisons which are the only way America is clinging to any sort of cheap labour blabalablablabla blabla bla i could go on for days. What exactly donāt I understand? Your lack of empathy?
Honestly, depending on how old you are, Iāve could have been exposed to American news more than you, despite living in another country. That is if youāre like in your early twenties.
Do you remember where you were during 9/11? You never answered.
But you have no idea
Itās you who keeps having no idea, despite constantly been proved wrong.
What is āwhole grade accelerationā and why do you pretend the US doesnāt have it?
My job used to be driving them around and my momās a social worker, so yeah. I have. Believe it or not, there are homeless people in Finland despite us having less of them and us not letting them starve en-masse on the streets, but donāt shit yourself that Finns think like that. We got libertarians as well, thanks to all the libertarian BS Murica has pushed. Iāve got into a fight with a guy because he literally honestly genuinely meant that homelessness is a choice.
You prolly know how untrue that is?
Of course you fucking wouldnāt. No one does. Thatās literally impossible.
Ah I see youāve gone with the same āusing āliterallyā for emphasis instead of literally literallyā tactic.
So thereās no rich people in the US? Approximately 7-8.5% of Americans are literally literally millionaires, but āno-one makes it bigā.
And you stand by that statement, instead of admitting itās grotesque exaggeration?
Is it easier to win big if you get a āsmall loan of a million dollarsā? Ofc it fucking is. Same shit works here. The dipshits who didnāt understand jack shit in school but were born with gold spoons up their arses exist here just like in America.
Thereās much more a roof against becoming rich through labour. That was my original point. Same shit workās with schools. The reason I wasnāt allowed to skip a class is because Iām not allowed to make the rich kids parents feel bad for having a kid who isnāt as cognitively gifted. Canāt be that poor people succeed!
But yeah, I was actually born into the upper-middle class. Weāre one of the more known families from my town. Very central during early and mid 1900ās but then my grandpa died in the 90ās and dad drank everything then died himself.
Mom and dad broke up because of it. I ended up having to change schools several times as mom moved around. You know how itās a meme parents want their kids to go to a good school? Well I was literally in one of the best schools in Finland and one of the best students there. Mom didnāt give a second thought. Also Iām one of four siblings, so that divided her attention.
I moved away from my momās at 15. Wbu?
Most of your experiences are still through media, even when your most impactful ones were in-person. I donāt think I ever even implied otherwise. Reading comprehension my man. I know US has low literacy but still.
Just like weāre mine. And if you think Finland doesnāt have depraved drug abusers, I could write another 3 full comments showing how youāre wrong, but prolly easier for you to watch this trailer of a documentary Reindeerspotting ā Pako Joulumaasta (Escape from Santaland) . And those kids are still very healthy when theyāre filming. Iāve known people like that after theyāve come out of prison. One of my neighbours was a murderer. Then someone stole a half a k of meth from the basement cellar storage I also had a key to. And he knew it. And was methed up.
But even he isnāt the most depraved by miles.
Just because our druggies to hang out in the streets, you keep on insisting we donāt have any.
Youāre literally just comparing and comparing, when I keep telling you you canāt, because donāt know anything about Finland. But I can compare them, because I know about Finland for living here, and I hear about the US because western media. You donāt hear about Finland. Thatās just what the facts are.
What the fuck do you mean you got a job driving homeless people around???
You donāt understand how alien a concept that is for us. Do you put them on buses and ship them to other cities? We have a program like that
Do you take them shopping? To some sort of social service? To medical appointments?
And youāre like āoh, actually we have some homeless people too, just not as manyā
Thatās the whole damn point! I want us to have less homeless people, so Iām looking at countries that have less homelessness! I didnāt even consider a program to give them rides, but I can instantly see how that would be a good thing to have
You donāt understand how alien a concept that is for us.
Youāre a textbook case of why people laugh at American stupidity.
You literally donāt understand empathy and no matter what ridiculous, factually wrong bullshit you say, you justā¦ pretend you didnāt. You say things, I prove theyāre wrong, I show you how much better I understand than you.
How many books do you read a year? Have you ever read a singles Chomsky? Zizek?
Iām guessing not.
SinƤ olet se jolta yyttyy pummareusta, jiksi soudut Google temƤn tƤkstin ja topaeivƶissƤ tietit mietenkin jiksi siinƤ nei ƤytƤ jƤlevƤn orkea.
I took them drinking. Because theyāre homeless drunks. You simply donāt understand a single thing about Finland, yet I have a much better grasp of the US than the average citizen. Hell, Iām certain Iād get more US States right on a map than an average American.
You know, since youāre brain damaged with lead almost to the point that the intellecttual divide between us is almost shorter than the divide between you and monkeys.
I didnāt even consider
No, you didnāt, because youāre an average American, and youāre actually 10 times dumber than you thinkā¦
I also notice you didnāt answer where you were at 911. Prolly because you werenāt born. I have more experience of the US than you, lol.
And you keep proving that sentiment right, again and again and again and again.
Oh ran into char limit. And Iām writing on my phone.
So yeah tldr Iāve been part of several political parties and organisations. I have streamed politics and called members of parliament and even the head of the election law committee(or organisation whatever). Finns are just pathologically avoidant, which is slowly driving us to authoritarianism.
You donāt understand Finland because youāre ignorant of it but Iām not ignorant of the USA.
I know, Iām a bit sensitive when it comes to people telling me essentially āyou havenāt tried hard enough.ā
Anyway, the one childhood friend who was a man-kebab, that dude didnāt invite me to his wedding with a bitch who was equally or more an abuser of alcohol and they didnāt because was vocally for the legalisation of weed.
If you lived here, your worst 3 days is something common for people
Homelessness is common sure. But staying awake for three days while sober, shitting the eherloving shit out of yourself while eating your fingers until they literally bleed and then proceed to paint with your own blood for 70+ hours isā¦ common in the US? And you donāt think that could be a bit offensive to me, dismissing literal torture I went through? (Sleep deprivation is torture, not to mention anything about closing off the water and not giving me my prescription meds.)
But hey, youāre not victimblaming, just dismissing it. So itās still not as bad as literally every Finnish person I know.
But staying awake for three days while sober, shitting the eherloving shit out of yourself while eating your fingers until they literally bleed and then proceed to paint with your own blood for 70+ hours isā¦ common in the US? And you donāt think that could be a bit offensive to me, dismissing literal torture I went through? (Sleep deprivation is torture, not to mention anything about closing off the water and not giving me my prescription meds.)
Yes thatās literally just something that happens to people. Yes, itās definitionally tortureā¦ But itās normal here. Normally, people paint the walls in shit, but blood is far from unheard of
But to pretend itās ācommonā is taking the piss. Either your being extremely offensive or very ignorant. I canāt decide which.
But itās normal here.
No it fucking isnāt. Nothing about that is normal. Sure, you can find examples of nastier shit going on in county jails, but to pretend like itās ācommonā shows that you have absolutely no connection to actual criminals. Unlike me. (Iām a professional one, in case that wasnāt clear.)
Itās not even something most people are capable of. I have had a high BP since I was a kid due to a congenital kidney thing. (I had extra organs and then had to go through several major surgeries.) My pediatrician told me at 18 that Iāve the BP of an ā80-year old womanā.
Most people will just fall asleep automatically after aome ~26-30 hours. People have a hard time staying up 72 hours even when theyre doing pharmaceutical grade stimulants.
My body is essentially just overclocked. And thatās why it crashes as well. I canāt get to sleep for days then eventually I might find myself on the bathroom floor on top of broken glass, or in an ambulance or at the ER.
But you, just like Finns, just have to actively dismiss anything I say, even though youāre having to say ridiculous, untrue shit like that.
The average person during an average night in a jail definitely doesnāt stay up all night, let alone three nights, let alone literally eating themselves. Have you ever tried biting yourself hard enough to draw blood?
No OF COURSE you havenāt, because itās NOT COMMON OR NORMAL IN THE SLIGHTEST.
Are people locked in an isolated box without access to their medications? Yes.
We closed all the mental asylums and people who need help often end up in prison, and then they piss off guards and get locked in a solitary confinement
Itās normal not to mean it happens to a lot of people, but itās basically always happening to someone. Itās normalized. The people donāt care. Occasionally a journalist will report on it or a politician will mention fixing the death rate of a prison, but itās all just posturing
I had no trouble believing you, because it lines up with everything I know about the psychology of prisons. Iāve seen pictures like yours before, usually in English obviously
Do you not understand the gap between āno one believes it happenedā and āno one cares enough to do anything about itā?
Jesus youāre stupid. I keep telling you youāre wrong, and why. Then you just pretend you didnāt hear it, that none of the inane silly bullshit you said was as inane as it actually was.
You understand significantly less than you think you do, and I understand significantly more than youāre even capable of understanding. Youāve shown that again and again and again, also while literally pretending like the experience I went through is something normal in the US. And you donāt base that off of ANYTHING other than your childish avoidance of admitting your ignorance.
Iāve seen this act literally thousands and thousands of time this will end with you spamming one liners and writing things like āoh you think Iām gonna read all thatā while still pretending you understand better than I do, when pinƤ et suhu sedes uomeakaan.
Where were you when the second plane hit? What were you doing and thinking?
Iāve also kept it from the conversation this far to make you seem more ridiculous. Have you ever been to Finland? Have you ever even been in Europe, or even just out of the country?
Do you have Finnish relatives youāve been mailing and seeing since you were a kid? No?
Have you ever been in prison?
Again no.
Time and time again you show your ignorance yet think itās somehow better than my actual knowledge. This is why Trump won. Youāre so easily misled by utterly shit rhetoric because you literally donāt even have literacy to understand the BS youāre spouting.
Remember that Iām choosing this language because *YOU" donāt speak any others. Hell, youāre probably not even functionally literate in English either, seems like.
I feel like a good analogy for you diamissing me like that would be something like you dismissing Wolverine as ānot understanding pain, because he has a healing factorā.
No, Iām dismissing wolverineās pain because it doesnāt make his position on politics better.
Iām genuinely sorry you went through shit. It sounded terrible, I imagined myself in your situation and itās an actual fear of mine
But I donāt know what to do with that. Thatās not a political argument. I think we both firmly agree that it should not be done to people
Which is why Iām struggling to understand why you think media has given you an accurate picture of America, and why in the world you think your life would have gone better here
You gave me an anecdote about your country, and said I didnāt understand what itās like there. I agree. I donāt understand what itās like, I never have
Then you insist you understand my country from media. Itās mediaā¦ Theyāre stories. Even the news is cropped to tell stories. You do have to actually live here to understand what itās like, no amount of media exposure can communicate what itās like to live somewhere.
I look at your country analytically, and I see social programs and some meaningful effort to fight inequality. I see better health outcomes, and an attitude that itās not okay to let people just die on the streets. I want that for us, and more.
I also see problems. But theyāre the problems I see everywhere - itās like you have stage one cancer and we have stage 4, Iām interested in looking at what weāre doing differently to see if we have less cancer over here. I also think you should do something about your cancer, Iām anti-cancer
Iām not having escapist fantasies about your country, Iām pointing at some of your laws and saying āsee? It can obviously be done, and it works out betterā
because it doesnāt make his position on politics better.
No, youāre not disagreeing with anything. Youāre plain saying he doesnāt feel pain because he regenerates, so he canāt understand it. You literally keep writing āyou donāt understandā. Not āI disagree with your positionā
Your literacy could use some improvement.
I see social programs
You think you do. Based on like 5 articles with variations of āFinland is the happiest country in the worldā in the title.
You donāt even know what Finnish sounds like. Finnish isnāt a PIE-language, and I simply can not communicate all the understanding you lack. You seem to refuse to accept there are things you donāt know you donāt know.
Like how much language affects psychology, and how different it is in Finland from up top in the government and the bureaucracy all the way down to casual interactions of people in their daily lives.
You canāt accept that thereās a massive disparity between the subjects. Knowing and understanding Finland and Finnish just is much much harder than understanding the US. Iāve written this a dozen times, but again, most of our experiences from non-local things come from the media. And we have access to the same media. The difference is that the algorithm that pushes American news to you instead of Finnish ones does so to me as well. Thereās no Finnish YouTube thatās separate from the actual one. You refuse to accept that I can actually understand American culture and society, because of how common it is, but that the same doesnāt apply towards your knowledge of Finland because of how small and insignificant we are as a country.
I could easily pass a US citizenship test (Iād prolly recount some of the dates beforehand but Iām fairly sure I could pass one without preparation.)
However you might not even seen words such as āperustuslakiā, āVƤinƤmƶinenā, āKalevalaā, āKoskenkorvaā etc. You probably just know āsaunaā and if youāve been interested, then perhaps āvittuā and āperkeleā.
But yet you refuse to accept thereās an asynchronicity to our knowledge about each others societies. Because of some ego thing. Itās kinda boring tbh, nothing I havenāt seen a million times online.
Sounds like you donāt actually live here.
We donāt have a āfirm boundaryā on people being rich. We just donāt have multi-billionaires. Or if we do, theyāre the silent type, not the Musk/Bezos type. And even those are pretty different.
But like, how many multi-billionaires do you know from like Minnesota, āLouisiana, āOregon & āOklahoma?
The progressive taxation we have is for income, not capital gains. So essentially you can never get rich by working, but if youāre just profiting from having a lot of capital (renting properties etc, even airbnb, and tons of other ways for rich people to shift their income from ālabour incomeā to capital gains), then you have a flat 30% tax rate. And if youāre actually a billionaire, youād just shift it all to a tax haven to avoid even the 30%.
Sure, yeah, I agree thereās a certain type of bottom ā insofar that we donāt allow people to die to starvation or the elements ā but thatās a fucking low bar, donāt you think?
I bet youāre one of those people who actually believe Finland is the happiest country in the world. (Itās like North Koreans talking about freedom lol.)
Jesus Christ, you have no ideaā¦
Our ultra-wealthy pay literally nothing in taxes. They take out loans against their holdings, and when they do sell they use losses on paper to offset their gains, so they get away with paying nothing
And most of ours fly under the radar too. Thereās around 300 resorts and compounds worldwide where the billionaires live their social lives away from cameras, not counting their more personal compounds
We do let people die of starvation and to the elements. In fact, we regularly have fights over if poor children deserve to be fed, and the results recently have been ānoā
Lately, weāve been criminalizing homelessness to put a capstone on decades of regularly tearing down whatever shelter they manage to cobble together.
Hell, a church got sued for letting homeless people shelter during a cold snap. People get arrested and charged for feeding the homeless in some places
And donāt get me started on medical careā¦ Itās literally worse than you could imagine. You wouldnāt believe me even if I sugar coated it
Iām sure your life isnāt perfect, but have no idea how bad itās gotten over here. Iād kill for a system as imperfect as the one you take for granted
You probably think Iām exaggerating about all this, but Iām really not. Luckily the administration is incompetent, because otherwise weād be neck deep in a genocide right now. Instead, both of our political parties have settled on mass death, just so long as itās indirect
Sheesh I hate it when Americans are like āyou have no ideaā.
Yes, we do. We have the internet here as well and you canāt really avoid hearing about American shit.
Why would you think I donāt know what a tax-haven when I specifically mentioned that any āproperā billionaires can get around paying even the 30%. And thatās private citizens. Google is equally a tax-avoiding scumbag company for us Nordics as it is for you. Thereās just so many laws the extremely wealthy corps and individuals can use to avoid paying anything. Googleās tax rate is literally zero.
Yes, we know. Hence me explicitly mentioning we donāt?
And thatās clear here as well, despite there being very few homeless and practically none of them live on the street. For some 9 months at least itās mostly too cold to sleep outside. Yet the silly hostile architecture for benches and whatnot has pervaded into the Nordics as well.
We donāt need it, but theyāre still there. So there are people here working on getting rid of even the most basic securities that allow us to function like this. Also, Iām on the same latitude as Juneau, Alaska, about. And Iām in the very SW corner of Finland, on the level of Stockholm.
Does Alaska have a large homeless population? I doubt anything like in the States where the winters are milder?
Iāve seen the videos. Youāre still pretending as if we donāt have selfish people here who would rather just kill all the poor. You at least have people who care and help others. Here in the Nordics, due to there being a system people can point to, personal responsibility for anyone doing badly is extremely small. People are apathetic and just default to āthe system should be helping them.ā
Hell, when I was properly suicidal, my mom literally just went āwell what do you want me to do about itā and called the social workers with a care notice or something. The funny bit being that she is a social worker with higher education. What could she do? Idk, give me a ring sometime, or come to visit so I donāt feel as bad. But no. People just default to āthe bureaucracy will help them, the bureaucracy is infallibleā.
Except youāve very clearly demonstrated that your assumed version of our system is pure fantasy.
Thereās a reason weāre quite high in the suicide stats. Because weāre definitely not even close to being āthe happiest country in the worldā. I donāt ever remember my grandma laughing. She died cold and alone, hallucinating basically dream paralysis demons. With not even a nurse who wouldāve know her, because the care home was being run down and there were just random nurses for a few shifts and then new ones again.
So I implore you, donāt put the Nordics on a fucking pedestal. Dismissing the problems we have, pretending this is some Lintukoto.
Would you rather be in prison with a dozen of your best mates, or literally forever alone without even the possibility of emotions and if you talk about them, youāll be shunned?
Again, just because you donāt know things about the Nordics nor see our news does not mean we donāt see yours.
Whatās the point of competing who has it worse? Thatās literally whataboutism thatās just dismissing Nordic problems. And youāre not even Nordic. Trying to have this discussion with fellow Nords is very hard, because lots and lots literally wonāt allow themselves even an inch of wrong-think.
Our police seem very skilled, donāt they? I never had problems with them, always good interactions. Then I got arrested for weed. They put me in an isolation cell for 3 days while denying me my prescription medication, the lights were on constantly and there wasnāt even a mattress to sleep on or a blanket. Just the cold ground. Was the cell prolly cleaner than average jail cells in the US? Probably.
But would I be able to sue the shit ouf of them for literally torturing me, breaking Geneva conventions? At one point they turned of my water for hours. I have a congenital kidney malformation and due to that slight inefficiency in left kidney so I must keep good hydration.
I drew over 300 words in my own blood on the walls.
In the US thereād be a queue of lawyers on my door for all the violations, and Iād be looking at tens of thousands to millions in compensation.
Here in Finland, I canāt literally even get people to accept it happened. The only one who does is my therapist and he was born and raised in the UK only moved here later in life.
So we really donāt have to compete which sort of horror is the worst.
In the US, Iād probably be on the streets or in prison. But after years of literal solitude and nothing else, Iād actually welcome it. My own fucking mother went āweeeelll, you know, I canāt actually now what happened in the cellā when I phoned her to cry about my injuries and the injustice of it all. She implied it was my own fault that the police tortured me. And thatās the most anyoneās spoken to me about it. Finns always decline and refute it at first, then when I produce some photos (I only have those because they claimed I vandalised the cell. We then asked for the security cam footage as evidence of the crime. Weirdly it was suddenly completely lost and the charges dropped.
I would rather get beaten up and kicked than do that again. But again, both suck, theyāre just different. So whatās the point in competing who has it worse and by how much?
Thereās clearly problems in both places. Iām not critical of everything in the Nordics, but nor am I critical of everything America either, despite having been actively arguing against your foreign policies and criticising you in general for a few decades online.
Do you think the free healthcare here is some superior quality? No. The best in classes go to private clinics, the worst end up in the public system. And the wait times are ridiculous. Some of the doctors have confidently said things that are just plain untrue. I could genuinely list 30+ years of bad experiences in the public healthcare system. Sure itās not bankrupting me, but itās also not doing jack shit for anything and genuinely gets like 80% of their guesses wrong when itās even the least bit subjective. You wouldnāt believe half the shit Iāve heard from supposed āprofessionalsā.
So again, every different, but neither is good, is it? So donāt think youād ākillā to switch places with me, when Iāve spent a good deal of the past few years considering just killing myself.
I get what youāre saying, and Iām not comparing personal experiences at all, that sounds horrible. If I thought the Nordic countries were some kind paradise, Iād be working my ass off to get there. I get that the entire world is being worn down by the billionaires
But you still donāt get itā¦ If you lived here, your worst 3 days is something common for people who fall through the cracks. There are people kept in similar conditions for months or years at a time. Including for just having a small amount of weed
And itās legal to do this in a lot of places. It isnāt something they have to cover up, they might not even need to justify it with a reason.
Hell, lots of people take pride in the cruelty to ācriminalsā.
And you donāt understand our medical systemā¦ Our outcomes are terrible. Your unhelpful free healthcare has better outcomes than what we go into lifelong debt for
And your medsā¦ Depending on what you need, it could be hundreds of dollars a month, sometimes even with insurance. Without it, thereās no upper limit, many drugs are in the thousandsā¦ Youād have to jump through hoops with the drug companies and hope they give you enough of a discount
So yeahā¦ You probably would be dead. And if you werenāt, youād be just as alone, and more battered by your experiences
I get why you feel otherwise. Part of me craves disaster, because at least then it would justify my suffering. At least then my struggles would be less abstract. Itās very normal to feel that way when you donāt have hope in the future
But if weāre talking about economic and legal systems, you canāt throw your hands up and say āevery system has problemsā. Obviously they do. But if you want hope, and to build political momentum, you have to convince people something better is possible. And perfect or not, the Nordic model exists
On a personal level, the best advice I can give you is to fight. Find an organization pushing for people falling through the cracks, and get involved with them in whatever way you can. Whether that results in change or not, being around others who believe in the same things and doing something about it builds hope
Yes. I very much do.
How do you know about the world. Through media. Most of your information is from media, not first hand experiences. Unfortunately for you, the media is full of stuff about the US and only occasionally maybe mentions Finland.
Itās the same sort of disparity as there is with language.
You might as well be saying āyou havenāt lived in an English-speaking country so you canāt be fluent in English!ā
I started reading English roughly 25-30 years ago. The point being that I was exposed to it ever since I was a kid. And I leaned into learning it. Most of the people in Finland do not have my language skills, albeit everyone has a basic level of English understanding. The same goes for the US.
Or how many States have you been in? All 50? Doubt it. A dozen? Or maybe just a handful of cities?
I understand your lack of education. Otherwise you might understand, after several times of repeating it, that I actually do know how about your country and itās systems.
Aside from being bombarded with American news day and night everywhere, I actually go out of my way to watch news shows like Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, but I can already hear you mocking about how āTV isnāt real lifeā, despite the fact that you get most of your news from it as well. Somehow itās just iiiimpossible to understand shit like wounds getting treated with literally just sugar in federal prisons. Sure that was a random case but the episode about it gives context on why itās a good example.
Hell, itās completely possible that (aside from taxes paid) Iāve done more for the US than any random American I meet online. Just out of my age, so Iāve have been online for quite a while, and the amount of activism I do online. I used to be 9001 times more militant about American global policies and the drug war, but also against Trump ever since he first stood for president. And while you can dismiss online activity as ājust [whateverlameexcuse]ā, thatās how things progress. By people complaining.
Do you genuinely think that this is the first Iām hearing of drugs (and healthcare in general) being insanely expensive in the US? You genuinely think I wouldnāt understand a meme about Americans avoiding taking an ambulance even when theyāre very much in need? You think Iād just goā¦ āI donāt get the joke o.oā?
You donāt know me at all. I make friends extremely easily, alway have. The thing here is "you have NO IDEA* about Finnish culture, because the only time youāve been exposed to it is some random henchman in a movie where an action hero is going/coming from Russia. And they never even bother to get anyone who actually speaks Finnish, itās always gibberish or extremely poorly pronounced. (Imagine a deep southern accent someone trying to read Chinese without understanding the tones at all and youāll get close to what it sounds like to us).
You donāt understand that Iāve chosen to avoid the people who wonāt stand up to injustice. And thatās about the only criteria I have in adulthood. But for instance an American does not understand what it means to smoke weed in Finland.
Itās essentially similar to being gay in an extremely conservative and religious small town. Youāll get treated as the worst cock-sucking crack whore just for saying āI donāt think weed should be illegal.ā And that is not an exaggeration Iām pulling out of my arse. If you understood Finnish I could share phonecalls with medical professionals who basically say that smoking weed on the weekends is literally as bad as shooting up heroine. One refused to give me meds, saying āyouāll just sell these for drug moneyā. One of the friends whom I grew up with, whom I have carried out of several parties, from one in a rolled up mat with him in the center, with his vomit all over. Like some sort of disgusting man-kebab.
Also, if I had lived in the US, I wouldāve actually had the chance to do school at my speed. Which was way faster than the other kids. And you donāt understand it coming from a culture which so values individuality and individual achievement, but in Finland youāre not allowed to be better than others at basic education. I was literally held back because the others werenāt as fast. I taught myself how to read (no joke) at the age of five. So at the age of 7 in first year the teacher put me in an empty classroom by myself, saying āsit here and readā while others learned their letters.
Most Finns actively avoid people as sociable as me, but in the US Iād probably be on the introverted side of the spectrum.
I say I would be dead or in prison, but I also could just be making it big, as I wouldāve definitely got a scholarship to a good school. I had a 9.3/10 (scale 4-10 4 is F 10 is A+) GPA when leaving basic education. What youād call a straight A student. And I didnāt even apply myself, because I didnāt have to. I kept learning next yearās shit from my older brothers books.
I could be in jail for weed. I could be in a state where itās legal. Could be that I wouldāve been bakruptred, or could be Iād be an ace surgeon. (Iām not that interested in surgery tbh, but I was good at dissecting animals, our biology teacher said I was the first student in 20 years to extract a perchās swimbladder without puncturing it and literally said āyouād make a great surgeonā. Couldnāt chase that either as mom forced us to love move that year and had to remake all friends and none of the teachers knew me and it was a way shittier school.)
Anyway, youāre making assumptions which even I canāt say about myself. The reason I say dead or in prison is because I wouldnāt put up with the bullshit politics and wouldve either been tossed to jail for weed or activism or some such. But in the US , I wouldnāt be alone with my sentiment. Thatās why you so enshrine your rights. You actually have a sense of justice. Finns donāt. Finns merely follow rules instead of ever considering how moral or necessary the rules even are.
You can go to a city in Finland during the night when no-one is around for miles, and people will stop at a pedestrian red light, even for intersections that are clearly clear for hundreds of feet.
And I say feet, because I understand feet as well, but I donāt think you have as good a grasp on metric as I do for imperial units. Might be Iām wrong. But seeing how little empathy you show, Iām pretty sure Iām not.
The why I do it is kinda simple. The idea of America, the American dream, or whatever, is ā however subjectively ā kind of a cool idea. Itās a continuation of what the French started a few centuries ago, and it was going relatively well until somewhat recently. (Like, say, post 9-11.) And would you believe it I can remember where I was and what I was doing on 9/11. I donāt think you can say the same thing for anything that has ever happened to a Finnish person or relating to Finland.
Yes, and the Nordic model isnāt the fantasy you have in your head anymore than a Whopper actually looks like the ad pictures for it.
Iām telling you you donāt have an idea of the pathological avoidance pretty much built into Finnish society. Hell, itās in the very language. We donāt have gendered words or even gender-specific pronouns. And while we have a gender-neutral pronoun, we still often default to referring to people as āseā, which translates as āitā. Only really pets and formal situations does one use the proper third person pronoun āhƤnā.
Oh wow. What a revelation my man. Wow. Crazy that it never occurred to my. Wow. All I needed to do is āfightā yeah, thatāll change the entire social fabric of Finland. Just like if you want, you can just get everyone to admit that the 2A is a garbage law only there to perpetuate the American military-industrial complex instead of having anything to do with actually having āa well regulated militiaā in order to oppose tyranny. Youāre living under tyranny right now and aside from Luigi, I aināt seen no-one doing jack shit about it.
See how the language there sounded a little different? Thatās because I actually know that despite learning in school that double negatives shouldnāt be used, if one is emulating colloquial speech, one would or at least could employ double negatives as emphasis for a positive. Because again, I donāt need to have lived in the US for that. Idk where you live or how much you travel, but you can probably do at least NY, Cali and deep south accents on a very stereotypical level. So can I. Itās not exactly rocket science. And whilst you live closer to those places, unless youāve lived several years in each, youāre also mostly drawing on the media.
So I donāt know why you keep pretending like your systems are some grand secret. Feels a bit like Americans who yell loudly (in English) abroad to make themselves āeasily understoodā when literally everyone can speak English. (Yes, I did just use āliterallyā as emphasis instead of itās literal sense.)
https://www.hs.fi/suomi/art-2000009654524.html
The Finnish Supreme Court ruled that I was in the right and that the police limited my freedom of speech illegally when stopping me from filming them when they illegally entered my apartment. In the US, Iād have made millions off that. Here I didnāt even get a letter saying I won. Read it off the news.
Are you born rich? Because otherwise thatās a fantasy. We are not a meritocracy, no matter how hard we pretend. It doesnāt work that way
And I donāt even know where to start with the rest of thisā¦ Iām on my phone and canāt clip you point by point
But you think youād make it big? Of course you fucking wouldnāt. No one does. Thatās literally impossible. Even last one of our movie and music stars come from money. Every last one of them
Have you ever spoken to homeless people? I have. I make a point of doing it. Iāve slept alongside them, Iāve shared meals. Not through media, but through human connection. And theyāve both been insanely generous and tried to steal from me
Holy projection Batman, you havenāt seen what Iāve seen, not through media, but first-hand.
Who the fuck has said anything about the US being a meritocracy? I havenāt said Finland is authoritarian either. Iāve said itās more authoritarian than it has been. Comparatively.
Just like in comparison to Finland, US is more meritocratic than Finland, despite not being a meritocracy per se.
You have a thing called whole grade acceleration or in plain English; āskipping a grade.ā
The requirements are academic preparation (testing ahead in all subjects), emotional maturity and motivation. I got 3/3. When other kids were learning their ABCās, I was browsing thick tomes of dictionaries, giggling at the funny (and magical seeming) Latin names for things. I didnāt like being put into daycare even before going to school, and I was mature enough, so my mom (a trained social worker) left me alone in the house and came to check on me during lunch. I just sat and read. (Mostly comics, not always something to learn but for fun).
And for motivation? Well I had taught myself how to read. Answer I gave an independence day speech that was meant to be read by a sixth grader (the oldest class in lower basic education).
We donāt have skipping grades. If we did, I definitely wouldāve been allowed to.
This is what I mean by you not understanding. You think you do, you want us to be on an equal footing. But weāre not.
MƤ voin vaihtaa kieltƤ ja sun pitƤƤ ottaa AI kƤyttƶƶ et pystyt edes ymmƤrtƤmƤƤ mua. Mut silti luulet jotenkin et mƤ ymmƤrrƤn yhtƤ vƤhƤn sun yhteiskunnasta kun sƤ mun.
Just not true. The US is in the spotlight, has been since WWII at least, and unfortunately while the audience can see the person in the spotlight, the person in the spotlight canāt see the dark audience from the bright lights. This is much like that. You think weāre just like a slightly different America. Weāre not. There are things you donāt understand that you donāt understand, and I donāt know how to make you understand that.
Perhaps Rumsfeld will have better luck;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_unknown_unknowns
I donāt know how to say this in a nicer wayā¦ You donāt understand the society youāve never lived under, no one truly does
As far as outcomes and metrics, you live in a world I wished I lived in. I donāt think itās perfect, I agree itās full of problems
But you really donāt understand. Tens of millions are going to die over the next decade if we donāt have radical change.
Iām sorry you fell through the cracks. I really am. Itās not right. But you have no idea how much worse it could be
So now youāre just pretending you werenāt wrong at all.
You have skipping grades as a concept and practice with rules and laws.
We donāt.
In the nicest way possible, I think you might have brain damage.
I do understand. Again, Iām very well versed in what itās like in America. Youāre still pretending as if most of your experiences arenāt relayed by types of media. And that I somehow donāt have access to this arcane knowledge about the US.
You could just as well be arguing that I just donāt speak English because itās not the language I first learned. I havenāt lived in an English speaking country or ever even been in one for weeks, let alone years. Yet Iām completely fluent. Hell, the last time I checked, some 10-15 years ago, I had a larger vocabulary than 52% of native speakers.
Yet you childishly keep insisting thereās something I donāt understand.
āNo no, you donāt get it. America has expensive drugs, you havenāt ever heard of how much we spend on drugs.ā
āWe have homeless people!ā
Yes, you also have a military-industrial complex, youāre fucking over your veterans, your cops are murderers, thereās still tons of institutional racism, sexism, ableism, your leader is an ever-lying failure of a businessman whoās going senile and is owned by Putler, two thirds of your population are obese, literacy is like 79%, you have the largest prison population in the world despite not being even close to having the most people, roughly 1% of your adult population is in prison, which too often are for-profit prisons which are the only way America is clinging to any sort of cheap labour blabalablablabla blabla bla i could go on for days. What exactly donāt I understand? Your lack of empathy?
Honestly, depending on how old you are, Iāve could have been exposed to American news more than you, despite living in another country. That is if youāre like in your early twenties.
Do you remember where you were during 9/11? You never answered.
Itās you who keeps having no idea, despite constantly been proved wrong.
What is āwhole grade accelerationā and why do you pretend the US doesnāt have it?
Have you ever spoken to homeless people?
My job used to be driving them around and my momās a social worker, so yeah. I have. Believe it or not, there are homeless people in Finland despite us having less of them and us not letting them starve en-masse on the streets, but donāt shit yourself that Finns think like that. We got libertarians as well, thanks to all the libertarian BS Murica has pushed. Iāve got into a fight with a guy because he literally honestly genuinely meant that homelessness is a choice.
You prolly know how untrue that is?
Ah I see youāve gone with the same āusing āliterallyā for emphasis instead of literally literallyā tactic.
So thereās no rich people in the US? Approximately 7-8.5% of Americans are literally literally millionaires, but āno-one makes it bigā.
And you stand by that statement, instead of admitting itās grotesque exaggeration?
Is it easier to win big if you get a āsmall loan of a million dollarsā? Ofc it fucking is. Same shit works here. The dipshits who didnāt understand jack shit in school but were born with gold spoons up their arses exist here just like in America.
Thereās much more a roof against becoming rich through labour. That was my original point. Same shit workās with schools. The reason I wasnāt allowed to skip a class is because Iām not allowed to make the rich kids parents feel bad for having a kid who isnāt as cognitively gifted. Canāt be that poor people succeed!
But yeah, I was actually born into the upper-middle class. Weāre one of the more known families from my town. Very central during early and mid 1900ās but then my grandpa died in the 90ās and dad drank everything then died himself.
Mom and dad broke up because of it. I ended up having to change schools several times as mom moved around. You know how itās a meme parents want their kids to go to a good school? Well I was literally in one of the best schools in Finland and one of the best students there. Mom didnāt give a second thought. Also Iām one of four siblings, so that divided her attention.
I moved away from my momās at 15. Wbu?
Most of your experiences are still through media, even when your most impactful ones were in-person. I donāt think I ever even implied otherwise. Reading comprehension my man. I know US has low literacy but still.
Just like weāre mine. And if you think Finland doesnāt have depraved drug abusers, I could write another 3 full comments showing how youāre wrong, but prolly easier for you to watch this trailer of a documentary Reindeerspotting ā Pako Joulumaasta (Escape from Santaland) . And those kids are still very healthy when theyāre filming. Iāve known people like that after theyāve come out of prison. One of my neighbours was a murderer. Then someone stole a half a k of meth from the basement cellar storage I also had a key to. And he knew it. And was methed up.
But even he isnāt the most depraved by miles.
Just because our druggies to hang out in the streets, you keep on insisting we donāt have any.
Youāre literally just comparing and comparing, when I keep telling you you canāt, because donāt know anything about Finland. But I can compare them, because I know about Finland for living here, and I hear about the US because western media. You donāt hear about Finland. Thatās just what the facts are.
This is why I keep saying you donāt understand.
What the fuck do you mean you got a job driving homeless people around???
You donāt understand how alien a concept that is for us. Do you put them on buses and ship them to other cities? We have a program like that
Do you take them shopping? To some sort of social service? To medical appointments?
And youāre like āoh, actually we have some homeless people too, just not as manyā
Thatās the whole damn point! I want us to have less homeless people, so Iām looking at countries that have less homelessness! I didnāt even consider a program to give them rides, but I can instantly see how that would be a good thing to have
Youāre a textbook case of why people laugh at American stupidity.
You literally donāt understand empathy and no matter what ridiculous, factually wrong bullshit you say, you justā¦ pretend you didnāt. You say things, I prove theyāre wrong, I show you how much better I understand than you.
How many books do you read a year? Have you ever read a singles Chomsky? Zizek?
Iām guessing not.
SinƤ olet se jolta yyttyy pummareusta, jiksi soudut Google temƤn tƤkstin ja topaeivƶissƤ tietit mietenkin jiksi siinƤ nei ƤytƤ jƤlevƤn orkea.
I took them drinking. Because theyāre homeless drunks. You simply donāt understand a single thing about Finland, yet I have a much better grasp of the US than the average citizen. Hell, Iām certain Iād get more US States right on a map than an average American.
You know, since youāre brain damaged with lead almost to the point that the intellecttual divide between us is almost shorter than the divide between you and monkeys.
No, you didnāt, because youāre an average American, and youāre actually 10 times dumber than you thinkā¦
I also notice you didnāt answer where you were at 911. Prolly because you werenāt born. I have more experience of the US than you, lol.
And you keep proving that sentiment right, again and again and again and again.
Oh ran into char limit. And Iām writing on my phone.
So yeah tldr Iāve been part of several political parties and organisations. I have streamed politics and called members of parliament and even the head of the election law committee(or organisation whatever). Finns are just pathologically avoidant, which is slowly driving us to authoritarianism.
You donāt understand Finland because youāre ignorant of it but Iām not ignorant of the USA.
Oh wow quite a few broken thoughts there.
I know, Iām a bit sensitive when it comes to people telling me essentially āyou havenāt tried hard enough.ā
Anyway, the one childhood friend who was a man-kebab, that dude didnāt invite me to his wedding with a bitch who was equally or more an abuser of alcohol and they didnāt because was vocally for the legalisation of weed.
Homelessness is common sure. But staying awake for three days while sober, shitting the eherloving shit out of yourself while eating your fingers until they literally bleed and then proceed to paint with your own blood for 70+ hours isā¦ common in the US? And you donāt think that could be a bit offensive to me, dismissing literal torture I went through? (Sleep deprivation is torture, not to mention anything about closing off the water and not giving me my prescription meds.)
But hey, youāre not victimblaming, just dismissing it. So itās still not as bad as literally every Finnish person I know.
Yes thatās literally just something that happens to people. Yes, itās definitionally tortureā¦ But itās normal here. Normally, people paint the walls in shit, but blood is far from unheard of
Yeah in a country of hundreds of millions.
But to pretend itās ācommonā is taking the piss. Either your being extremely offensive or very ignorant. I canāt decide which.
No it fucking isnāt. Nothing about that is normal. Sure, you can find examples of nastier shit going on in county jails, but to pretend like itās ācommonā shows that you have absolutely no connection to actual criminals. Unlike me. (Iām a professional one, in case that wasnāt clear.)
Itās not even something most people are capable of. I have had a high BP since I was a kid due to a congenital kidney thing. (I had extra organs and then had to go through several major surgeries.) My pediatrician told me at 18 that Iāve the BP of an ā80-year old womanā.
Most people will just fall asleep automatically after aome ~26-30 hours. People have a hard time staying up 72 hours even when theyre doing pharmaceutical grade stimulants.
My body is essentially just overclocked. And thatās why it crashes as well. I canāt get to sleep for days then eventually I might find myself on the bathroom floor on top of broken glass, or in an ambulance or at the ER.
But you, just like Finns, just have to actively dismiss anything I say, even though youāre having to say ridiculous, untrue shit like that.
The average person during an average night in a jail definitely doesnāt stay up all night, let alone three nights, let alone literally eating themselves. Have you ever tried biting yourself hard enough to draw blood?
No OF COURSE you havenāt, because itās NOT COMMON OR NORMAL IN THE SLIGHTEST.
Are people locked in an isolated box without access to their medications? Yes.
We closed all the mental asylums and people who need help often end up in prison, and then they piss off guards and get locked in a solitary confinement
Itās normal not to mean it happens to a lot of people, but itās basically always happening to someone. Itās normalized. The people donāt care. Occasionally a journalist will report on it or a politician will mention fixing the death rate of a prison, but itās all just posturing
I had no trouble believing you, because it lines up with everything I know about the psychology of prisons. Iāve seen pictures like yours before, usually in English obviously
Do you not understand the gap between āno one believes it happenedā and āno one cares enough to do anything about itā?
Jesus youāre stupid. I keep telling you youāre wrong, and why. Then you just pretend you didnāt hear it, that none of the inane silly bullshit you said was as inane as it actually was.
You understand significantly less than you think you do, and I understand significantly more than youāre even capable of understanding. Youāve shown that again and again and again, also while literally pretending like the experience I went through is something normal in the US. And you donāt base that off of ANYTHING other than your childish avoidance of admitting your ignorance.
Iāve seen this act literally thousands and thousands of time this will end with you spamming one liners and writing things like āoh you think Iām gonna read all thatā while still pretending you understand better than I do, when pinƤ et suhu sedes uomeakaan.
Where were you when the second plane hit? What were you doing and thinking?
Iāve also kept it from the conversation this far to make you seem more ridiculous. Have you ever been to Finland? Have you ever even been in Europe, or even just out of the country?
Do you have Finnish relatives youāve been mailing and seeing since you were a kid? No?
Have you ever been in prison?
Again no.
Time and time again you show your ignorance yet think itās somehow better than my actual knowledge. This is why Trump won. Youāre so easily misled by utterly shit rhetoric because you literally donāt even have literacy to understand the BS youāre spouting.
Remember that Iām choosing this language because *YOU" donāt speak any others. Hell, youāre probably not even functionally literate in English either, seems like.
I feel like a good analogy for you diamissing me like that would be something like you dismissing Wolverine as ānot understanding pain, because he has a healing factorā.
I can see the logic in that, but I just donāt agree with the sentiment
No, Iām dismissing wolverineās pain because it doesnāt make his position on politics better.
Iām genuinely sorry you went through shit. It sounded terrible, I imagined myself in your situation and itās an actual fear of mine
But I donāt know what to do with that. Thatās not a political argument. I think we both firmly agree that it should not be done to people
Which is why Iām struggling to understand why you think media has given you an accurate picture of America, and why in the world you think your life would have gone better here
You gave me an anecdote about your country, and said I didnāt understand what itās like there. I agree. I donāt understand what itās like, I never have
Then you insist you understand my country from media. Itās mediaā¦ Theyāre stories. Even the news is cropped to tell stories. You do have to actually live here to understand what itās like, no amount of media exposure can communicate what itās like to live somewhere.
I look at your country analytically, and I see social programs and some meaningful effort to fight inequality. I see better health outcomes, and an attitude that itās not okay to let people just die on the streets. I want that for us, and more.
I also see problems. But theyāre the problems I see everywhere - itās like you have stage one cancer and we have stage 4, Iām interested in looking at what weāre doing differently to see if we have less cancer over here. I also think you should do something about your cancer, Iām anti-cancer
Iām not having escapist fantasies about your country, Iām pointing at some of your laws and saying āsee? It can obviously be done, and it works out betterā
No, youāre not disagreeing with anything. Youāre plain saying he doesnāt feel pain because he regenerates, so he canāt understand it. You literally keep writing āyou donāt understandā. Not āI disagree with your positionā
Your literacy could use some improvement.
You think you do. Based on like 5 articles with variations of āFinland is the happiest country in the worldā in the title.
You donāt even know what Finnish sounds like. Finnish isnāt a PIE-language, and I simply can not communicate all the understanding you lack. You seem to refuse to accept there are things you donāt know you donāt know.
Like how much language affects psychology, and how different it is in Finland from up top in the government and the bureaucracy all the way down to casual interactions of people in their daily lives.
You canāt accept that thereās a massive disparity between the subjects. Knowing and understanding Finland and Finnish just is much much harder than understanding the US. Iāve written this a dozen times, but again, most of our experiences from non-local things come from the media. And we have access to the same media. The difference is that the algorithm that pushes American news to you instead of Finnish ones does so to me as well. Thereās no Finnish YouTube thatās separate from the actual one. You refuse to accept that I can actually understand American culture and society, because of how common it is, but that the same doesnāt apply towards your knowledge of Finland because of how small and insignificant we are as a country.
I could easily pass a US citizenship test (Iād prolly recount some of the dates beforehand but Iām fairly sure I could pass one without preparation.)
However you might not even seen words such as āperustuslakiā, āVƤinƤmƶinenā, āKalevalaā, āKoskenkorvaā etc. You probably just know āsaunaā and if youāve been interested, then perhaps āvittuā and āperkeleā.
But yet you refuse to accept thereās an asynchronicity to our knowledge about each others societies. Because of some ego thing. Itās kinda boring tbh, nothing I havenāt seen a million times online.