On the other hand, men on average live shorter, and we just go “well it’s just risky behavior and physical labor I guess 🤷♂️” and they’re aren’t any task forces for that either, truth is we as a society don’t care enough about these issues regardless of sex
Obviously those affect both men and women, but men are represented higher in both causes. Heart disease and cancer absolutely have large research groups focused on them, they aren’t being ignored by society at large.
Although general cancer research received roughly 3x more funding. Blood cancers aren’t far behind breast cancer in funding ($2.7b breast and $2.3b blood).
Fwiw, more research into any kind of treatment for breast cancer besides “slash and burn and poison” will continue to lead to improving treatments for other cancers, to the benefit of children and men as well.
Here’s a pretty good summary of how we got from “unspeakable and incurable,” past “initial biopsy and radical mastectomy in one operation,” to a place where breast cancer research is finally well-funded :
The fact that breast cancer is so common led women to get organized and raise private funds as well as demanding government funding. We’re the majority population group after all, and 1 in 10 of us will get breast cancer.
A lot of more rare cancers don’t have the numbers of passionate people behind them to fund the necessary research. It’s not fair but cancer ain’t fair.
Another thing about breast cancer, it’s easier to screen for routinely than, say, pancreatic cancer, so it’s now often caught early enough for treatment to succeed. And it’s easier to access that first tumor without having to dodge vital organs.
A patient who lives long enough to undergo radiation, chemo, and immunotherapy provides valuable information to researchers.
There are a lot of risky behaviors that cause heart disease or cancer, like drug abuse (legal drugs included) or eating too much, and AFAIK drug abuse is definitely more common in men.
I’m on the fence with your comment. Society viewing men as disposable is definitely a thing, and we do end up doing more hazardous and physically demanding work on the whole. The risks are real. Some of our mortality is hardwired, with men more prone to taking risks, which also drags the average.
You are also right about society not caring, though I would argue it’s the system we subscribe to.
I’m hesitant to fully jump on board with your comment because it’s close to bringing the whole ‘men too’ crowd which often has a note of toxicity to it.
The argument shouldnt be men vs. women, but people vs. those who exploit us, or people vs. the problem
It’s the phrasing- it is very easy for those who don’t look deeper to think this a men vs. women thing, and the commenter is stating that while he agrees with the idea, the phrasing is very easy to misunderstand.
You are also right about society not caring, though I would argue it’s the system we subscribe to.
How is this different in the context of healthcare for women?
I’m hesitant to fully jump on board with your comment because it’s close to bringing the whole ‘men too’ crowd which often has a note of toxicity to it.
This is irrelevant. The point is either valid or it isn’t. Neither you nor the person you’re talking to are responsible for the reactions of third parties. Judge the point being made on its own merits.
The argument shouldnt be men vs. women, but people vs. those who exploit us, or people vs. the problem
In an ideal world, maybe. But the health issues in question are relevant to a person’s sexual development (male vs. female) therefore it is functionally impossible to remove sex from the discussion.
It’s not really different in the contex of womens’ experiences in healthcare. What I’m alluding to here is that we all buy into this system (regardless of if we want to or not) rather than challenge it.
Irrelevant
Then their point is valid, I’m just disinclined to champion it because of shitty third party actors. I will acknowledge it’s validity though.
Ideal world
I’m not trying to remove sex from this particular issue but highlight that this issue is a smaller part of a systemic problem
A lot of it is self-inflicted. Largely do to machismo culture, men tend to avoid the doctor. Women are less likely to be pig-headed about going to the doc.
“Self-inflicted” but when women suffer from e.g. ridiculous beauty standards, then it is a societal issue.
Machismo culture is not “self-inflicted” because
Men are not a “self”. Even if my father would have raised me like that, I am not my father, so consequently it wouldn’t be self-inflicted.
Society is promoting and pushing machismo culture to men. Men are not the only one promoting it. Women promote machismo culture too. I can tell you that from my own personal experience and frankly, personally, I felt greater pressure from women in my life than from men to be “toxic-masucline”.
And obviously, it is wrong that women suffer from societal pressure too and they have my full support. This is not about demonising women, it is about calling out the narrative that societal pressure on men is “self-inflicted” and societal pressure on women is “caused by men”. We all do it and we all need to stop. Support each other. Raise your children to be supportive of self expression. Sexism is bad.
On the other hand, men on average live shorter, and we just go “well it’s just risky behavior and physical labor I guess 🤷♂️” and they’re aren’t any task forces for that either, truth is we as a society don’t care enough about these issues regardless of sex
This is kind of incorrect. The leading cause of death (in the US) is heart disease, followed by cancer:
https://www.voronoiapp.com/healthcare/What-are-the-leading-causes-of-death-for-men-and-women-4775
Obviously those affect both men and women, but men are represented higher in both causes. Heart disease and cancer absolutely have large research groups focused on them, they aren’t being ignored by society at large.
Cancer is a really broad cause of death. The cancer that has arguably the best funded research is breast cancer, which mostly affects women.
Although general cancer research received roughly 3x more funding. Blood cancers aren’t far behind breast cancer in funding ($2.7b breast and $2.3b blood).
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(23)00182-1/fulltext
Fwiw, more research into any kind of treatment for breast cancer besides “slash and burn and poison” will continue to lead to improving treatments for other cancers, to the benefit of children and men as well.
Here’s a pretty good summary of how we got from “unspeakable and incurable,” past “initial biopsy and radical mastectomy in one operation,” to a place where breast cancer research is finally well-funded :
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3298674/
Sure, researching better treatments for breast cancer can lead to better treatments for other cancers, but then that’s also true for the inverse.
The fact that breast cancer is so common led women to get organized and raise private funds as well as demanding government funding. We’re the majority population group after all, and 1 in 10 of us will get breast cancer.
A lot of more rare cancers don’t have the numbers of passionate people behind them to fund the necessary research. It’s not fair but cancer ain’t fair.
Another thing about breast cancer, it’s easier to screen for routinely than, say, pancreatic cancer, so it’s now often caught early enough for treatment to succeed. And it’s easier to access that first tumor without having to dodge vital organs.
A patient who lives long enough to undergo radiation, chemo, and immunotherapy provides valuable information to researchers.
There are a lot of risky behaviors that cause heart disease or cancer, like drug abuse (legal drugs included) or eating too much, and AFAIK drug abuse is definitely more common in men.
We did it team, the stats are higher because men do risky things, especially drugs.
I’m on the fence with your comment. Society viewing men as disposable is definitely a thing, and we do end up doing more hazardous and physically demanding work on the whole. The risks are real. Some of our mortality is hardwired, with men more prone to taking risks, which also drags the average.
You are also right about society not caring, though I would argue it’s the system we subscribe to.
I’m hesitant to fully jump on board with your comment because it’s close to bringing the whole ‘men too’ crowd which often has a note of toxicity to it.
The argument shouldnt be men vs. women, but people vs. those who exploit us, or people vs. the problem
Then make a post that doesn’t specifically target men vs women
But aren’t you doing the first, rather than the second with your post?
You’re expecting too much thought from us.
I subscribed to this? Could I see my signature on this contract?
This is what I tried to hint at.
No it’s exactly what you said. Not sure why OP is on the fence.
It’s the phrasing- it is very easy for those who don’t look deeper to think this a men vs. women thing, and the commenter is stating that while he agrees with the idea, the phrasing is very easy to misunderstand.
How is this different in the context of healthcare for women?
This is irrelevant. The point is either valid or it isn’t. Neither you nor the person you’re talking to are responsible for the reactions of third parties. Judge the point being made on its own merits.
In an ideal world, maybe. But the health issues in question are relevant to a person’s sexual development (male vs. female) therefore it is functionally impossible to remove sex from the discussion.
It’s not really different in the contex of womens’ experiences in healthcare. What I’m alluding to here is that we all buy into this system (regardless of if we want to or not) rather than challenge it.
Then their point is valid, I’m just disinclined to champion it because of shitty third party actors. I will acknowledge it’s validity though.
I’m not trying to remove sex from this particular issue but highlight that this issue is a smaller part of a systemic problem
The world isn’t a logic table.
A lot of it is self-inflicted. Largely do to machismo culture, men tend to avoid the doctor. Women are less likely to be pig-headed about going to the doc.
Women: goes to doctor, doesn’t get good help because doctors suck, bad outcome.
Men: doesn’t go to doctor in the first place because doctors suck, bad outcome.
#healthcare
“Self-inflicted” but when women suffer from e.g. ridiculous beauty standards, then it is a societal issue.
Machismo culture is not “self-inflicted” because
And obviously, it is wrong that women suffer from societal pressure too and they have my full support. This is not about demonising women, it is about calling out the narrative that societal pressure on men is “self-inflicted” and societal pressure on women is “caused by men”. We all do it and we all need to stop. Support each other. Raise your children to be supportive of self expression. Sexism is bad.
Personally I don’t go to the doctor because I am broke