I mean can’t we just enslave them if they think working a lot without asking much in return is ethical? If they think that the poor deserves to be poor and they will go to hell anyways so if we keep them poor and enslave them and tell them that they deserve it and should be working for us and simply accuse them of being sinful if they do not comply? If they want to be crushed under capitalism so much then why not just give them what they want and we can live comfortable and enjoyable lives while they are working for us.
Edit: Calvin says “It is enough to be successful at your job in for the lord to love you” and “The only job of business owners and traders should be increasing their wealth because even the god gave the duty of ruling over others to them”. Zubritski, Kerov, Mitropelski, The Primitive Community, the Slave Society, the Feudal Society, p.257 I read the book in a different laguage so made the translation by myself but of course you can find it in english too. So dear friend, it is perfectly ethical for calvinists to work their asses off without asking for much in return since business owners have to be as greedy as possible meaning that they should give as little as possible to their workers and in return, the only thing god wants from workers is to be good at their job and it is enough. Furthermore, Calvinists also believe that god chose an elected few and gave them the wealth and they will also go to heaven while all others will go to hell no matter what and thats why they are poor. By that logic, it is perfectly ethical for protestants if we ensave them and make them work for us for almost nothing in return and abuse them as much as we want too. We can eat an entire table of food while watching them suffer and beg us to give them some food even a single piece of bread and not even give that one since they also respect property rights at its fullest and they will still find this ethical. I hope this explains.
That’s a fucking weird take.
Slavery is a moral wrong from the start. What if we called you a Calvinists and put you in chains?
Stop being weird.
No, it is moral if they consent and they will consent because thats their belief. We will not put them in chains, they will do this voluntarily. We just have to forcibly take away their wealth and then they will be okay with it since they will become the losing side since thats what they believe and they will also believe that they deserved to be in that situation. In conclusion, they will be voluntary slaves and leave slavery if they leave protestantism. We have a lot of poor and homeless people suffering because of their beliefs and the system they have built so why is it not fair if we do the same?
Not everything you can do to people is moral of you have their consent.
You are saying that but those protestant wil enslave us without a second thought. In fact we are already their slaves. They werre the slave owners before too. Arent all business owners trump reagan etc all protestants? What Im trying to say is that in this system which they are protecting one side will always enslave the other one so why shouldnt it be them? They would enslave black people today if they had the chanace as well i mean wasnt it protestants who established kkk and defended slavery? They will be okay with being slaves too. Why do you think there are more protests in France than there is in the UK or US? Everyone will be ruled in the way which they deserve and thats what they want too in fact they think god wants them to be that way so lets give them what they want. We will be happy in this world through using products which they will produce and they will be happy in the afterlife, everyone will be happy so why not?
You are saying that but those protestant wil enslave us without a second thought.
Two wings don’t make a right.
Arent all business owners trump reagan etc all protestants
No, not all of them. And even if they were, that does not mean every protestant is like that.
What Im trying to say is that in this system which they are protecting one side will always enslave the other one so why shouldnt it be them?
The only moral answer is to change the system to a better one.
Everyone will be ruled in the way which they deserve
Bullshit. That’s impossible if you treat everyone in groups of that size the same way.
So you just want to rob people? What the fuck are you talking about? Are you talking about a wealth tax? I’m down for that. You want different laws based on their religious choice? That’s fucked.
I’m also a gringo that checks the tonalpohualli every day. I can’t tell the differences between y’all in the first place.
Are you drunk?
I think you’ll find that what people believe depends an awful lot on their position and what is convenient.
I know I could Google it and have a long read but could you, in very short sentences, describe both groups, please? It’ll also invite discussion as some will certainly try to defend themselves, lol.
Where is the evidence that Protestants think that working a lot without asking much is ethical? Why do you think it’s okay to enslave them because of their belief?
Calvin says “It is enough to be successful at your job in for the lord to love you” and “The only job of business owners and traders should be increasing their wealth because even the god gave the duty of ruling over others to them”. Zubritski, Kerov, Mitropelski, The Primitive Community, the Slave Society, the Feudal Society, p.257 I read the book in a different laguage so made the translation by myself but of course you can find it in english too. So dear friend, it is perfectly ethical for calvinists to work their asses off without asking for much in return since business owners have to be as greedy as possible meaning that they should give as little as possible to their workers and in return, the only thing god wants from workers is to be good at their job and it is enough. Furthermore, Calvinists also believe that god chose an elected few and gave them the wealth and they will also go to heaven while all others will go to hell no matter what and thats why they are poor. By that logic, it is perfectly ethical for protestants if we ensave them and make them work for us for almost nothing in return and abuse them as much as we want too. We can eat an entire table of food while watching them suffer and beg us to give them some food even a single piece of bread and not even give that one since they also respect property rights at its fullest and they wil still find this ethical. I hope this explains.
While Calvin may have said this, I don’t know any Calvinists who believe this. Also, I don’t know any Protestants who believe this. Where is your evidence that this is what Calvinists believe?
Almost all of them I mean why do you think they supported Ronald Reagan so much and now Trump too. Here is your proof. Just look up who they voted for lol that will be your proof.
It seems you are evaluating one of the 195 countries of the world and applying it to Calvinists worldwide. I am not familiar with the U.S. Calvanists, but where I am, I know of no one who believes that.
Last elections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election
Christian sects distribution by state: https://mcimaps.com/reformation-day-christianity-in-america/
Which sect and religion voted for which one: https://prri.org/spotlight/religion-and-the-2024-presidential-election/
So you want any other proof sir?
You have listed the statements of the government of one of 195 countries in the world. You have assumed that the members of the churches believe the same things as their government. They do not. Give me a poll of the calvinist members of the world. That’s what I’d like, sir.
Enslave billionaires instead. Make them toil in service to the global human community and the restoration of earth until their blood debts have been repaid.
Religion is too easy a label to throw at someone for ill gain, no matter how self-hating and absurd their beliefs may be.
If onlys and justs were candies and nuts, then every day would be Erntedankfest.
That is why the ’ Enlightenment’ ideas should not have been thrown out the window.
I would suggest you read people like Jean-Jacques Rousseau or Etienne de La Boétie, maybe even Voltaire. Those were all French (or French speaking) but they all have been translated into English for a good reason: it’s worth reading them even if you are not lucky enough to read French.
They, as well as many other thinkers btw, they have reflected on what it meant to be free while they were living in a not free society. And considered what it could mean to be free and to live with other free people.
Way too grossly summarized: it means to respect the other, to have empathy for the other, to know the only true ground to building a society and working together while remaining free is not through a religion or the ‘family’ (family being an ad hoc association between people, dixit Rousseau) but it is in the the realization we can do a lot more work by freely/willingly working together than working alone. And then it follows that no matter how absolutely free we may decide we are we should be fine with putting limits to our own freedom as a way to make sure other people will also put limits to their (and not threatens ours), making sure we don’t end up considering all other persons as mere… resources that re waiting for us to exploit them.
That’s why it’s important, as free persons, to recognize certain limits to our individual freedom (and power) including agreeing a common set of values, moral and educative, that we all agree to follow and to enforce them upon all of us equally (oneself included). Like… to not enslave your neighbor (no matter the color of their skin, faith, or whatever else).
Because you would be no better than the billionaires that are already doing that. It would not result in a better society.
