Saying and acting are unfortunately a world apart. Let’s hope that expression manifests into something tangible if necessary. I feel like I’m living through my history lessons at the moment and I don’t like what happened next.
I think EU has demonstrated that we can act in concord when needed. We can’t beat USA militarily, but we can make it very expensive for USA if they invade Europe. Europe is already working on independence from USA both economically and militarily, if USA invades a European country, I guess we have no other option than to work with China instead of USA.
I have no idea how Trump see it as a good idea to get former allies to turn against USA. It is already happening to some degree, the alliance is very uneasy now, in a way that has never before been the case between Europe and USA after WW2, and the exact same with Canada and USA.
USA has no real allies left, only allies of convenience. And at some point USA will learn the difference. That point will probably be pretty instant if USA invades Greenland.
Europe has no interest in Venezuela, as I’ve mentioned before, nobody likes Maduro.
Why would Europe sacrifice anything to help Venezuela?
We have no alliance or obligation towards Venezuela.
When you loan another country money, they have to grow that money so they can pay you interest. Stealing another country’s oil is a quick and easy way to make a lot of money which they can use to pay interest.
Yes, China is complicit.
But China is also steadily selling all their US treasuries and buying gold with those dollars.
Remember we sanctioned Russia to weaken their economy? The same can be done with America as well.
I’m from the US and I’m disgusted and embarrassed with the place. I moved to Sweden recently and if it comes to it I’d sooner help protect your borders than go back to the US
It probably includes most Americans. I think even a lot of his voters don’t want this. He did run on being the candidate of peace and getting us out of wars. That was enough to fool enough people into voting for him.
A majority of Americans do not give a shit about Danemark and would not lift their pinky to help one of their staunchest allies. That is true.
MAGA is a (large) minority. That is also true.
This is all enabled by a very sizeable chunk of Americans being literally mentally unable to conceptualize people outside their village as living, breathing, fully conscious people deserving of love and safety. They are colloquially known as “non-voters”.
It sure would be. The problem is we have a republic, not a democracy. So even though a candidate runs on one thing, if they change their stance then we just have to live with it.
Unfortunately you are obviously wrong.
Trump got the majority vote, Republicans have behaved like sociopaths for decades, and Trump even turned it up to a whole new level.
It was very obvious, and despite that he got the majority vote. That clearly shows the Majority of Americans accepted these sociopathic policies. There is no way around it, it was too obvious to claim afterwards that “this was not what we voted for”, because USA got EXACTLY what they voted for. And lame excuses like it’s only half the population that vote are frivolous. Because despite the clear danger, people did NOT turn up to vote against Trump.
Everybody who didn’t vote but could have, accepted that Trump might win, and was OK with that.
If you didn’t vote, or voted Trump, you don’t get to whine about it afterwards. It’s not like he changed character after the vote.
He got slightly less than half of the vote with a voter turnout of 64%, meaning only a third of eligible voters actual voted for him. The turnout in 2024 was slightly lower than 2020, but it was still higher than most years before. He has never even reached 50% approval rating, which is low compared to the highs of most presidents before him.
Fascists rarely have majority support, only needing a reliable plurality. They did gain power because not enough was done to stop them, but the lack of action was not just from non voters. The Democrats made multiple political blunders that even their own internal investigations revealed. Not only did they fuck up on Gaza, they completely dropped the ball on economic issues; failing to even acknowledge problems let alone offer anything new.
No he won the popular vote, there is no evidence otherwise.
And all the ones that didn’t vote who could have, were OK with Trump winning, or else they would have turned up to vote against him.
So 2 thirds either wanted him to win or were OK with it.
He got 2.3 million more votes than Harris, which 1.5% more than her for a grand total of 49.8% of the vote. Almost 2% voted 3rd party, which basically means they didn’t vote in FPTP. That still doesn’t mean a majority voted for him. Both Obama and Biden won more than 50%, so him not breaking that threshold in either election he won was noteworthy. He’s always been the most popular of the unpopular.
And all the ones that didn’t vote who could have, were OK with Trump winning, or else they would have turned up to vote against him.
You’re not wrong on this point, at least mechanically. Unfortunately for all of us who understand this, most people are don’t view voting this way. They lack the imagination for an election meaning the death of liberal democracy. Many who sat out might not have thought Trump would win. They thought even if he did win, he’d only be as bad as his first term, which while bad, could still be passed off as more of the same. Even to this day, people still think we live in a nation of laws, that things will go back to normal next election, that we aren’t doomed to decades of instability where nothing is off the table.
I really don’t blame them for thinking this, as a Democrats didn’t really campaign with the desperation they needed to. They tried a new way Democrat approach of appealing to the middle, thinking the left was secure. They didn’t harp on project 2025 or Trump’s open promises of dictatorship. They didn’t want people to panic, to realize how fragile things were, to realize that the rich donors they served were already on Trump’s side. They made everyone, even the loyal voters like me, feel like we had no choice in policy. They made clear that their promises of promoting democracy and regulating capitalism were lies. They made it as hard as possible to rationally support them, so I’ll never blame those who didn’t vote blue more than I blame the Democrats.
You are correct that Americans failed to prevent this; that everything we see is our collective fault. However, most don’t want this. Fascism taking power doesn’t mean it is popular or what most really want. It’s stupidity, not malice.
OK I suppose that the claim is based on that he got more votes than the Harris.
They thought even if he did win, he’d only be as bad as his first term,
There were massive warnings about exactly that part not being the case. If they thought that they were disregarding very clear warnings. And it doesn’t change the fact that they let the malignant narcissist win. I wrote numerous times here on Lemmy: “As a rule of thumb, don’t vote for the sociopath.”
It’s insane that such an easy to understand rule was not heeded.
as a Democrats didn’t really campaign with the desperation they needed to.
Even if the Democrats had the lamest campaign ever, people should not have allowed Trump to win. It’s a basic matter of insanity over sanity. Sanity is more boring, you can’t blame the democrats for that part. It was also a matter of sanity versus sociopathy, and that brings us back to the “rule”.
100% the American population as a whole is to blame for the election of Trump, all excuses are bad excuses. The only ones that get to complain are the ones that actually voted democrat. And why would you and how can you defend those that didn’t, considering the facts I mention?
Fascism taking power doesn’t mean it is popular
Problem is that it is actually pretty popular in USA! It may not have a majority, but my guess is that about 30% actually support a fascist regime in USA, no more power to the libs!!
A lot of people would love that.
The American society is mentally ill, the people indoctrinated with freedom and wealth as the ultimate highest achievable values, and they see sociopathy as an expression of ultimate freedom, and they idolize the rich as a higher class of society.
When I write the American society is mentally ill, I do not mean that figuratively, I mean it literally. It may be hard to understand and accept as an American, because in USA extreme evil is seen as normal. Gun shootings, removing food stamps, taking away health care, having an unlivable minimum wage, 3 times and you’re out, stand your ground, taking away voting rights, giving tax cuts to the 1% when they already pay lower tax than normal people.
The list goes on and on with systemic problems in USA. Systemic problems that ALWAYS benefit the rich and hurt the poor.
I want to see actions with words, I need to see actions with words. So far, trump takes and people take a step back. Trump takes again and governments protest, but they step back.
Here too, trump takes a country, murders some innocent civilians and military, and then the Cheetos threatens Greenland, AND YOU GOT SUPPORT?
You ain’t got shit. Empty words, not even on paper but on some website.
What people and countries do when Greenland will be invaded, and it will be, will matter. This, so far, hasn’t been shit and I suspect that once Greenland gets invaded and stolen, god knows what will happen to it’s inhabitants, nobody will do anything more than weakly protest
As a Spaniard I will tell you one thing, the borders of the EU are my borders, a violation of them is an attack on my country, from that moment on I would be at war without a doubt. But Greenland is not EU, it would be like Ukraine, send weapons, ok, send money, ok, diplomatic aid, ok; direct involvement in the war,
send soldiers or something, no thanks
Unlike Greenland, the Canary Islands are 100% territory of the European Union, and it is not about simple reciprocity. If that were the case, Malta, I don’t think it would contribute much, and between brothers, there is no need to expect to receive the same treatment.
The question is whether the Greenlanders see me as a brother, with whom they share a vision of the world or a shared common project, their political decisions in recent decades imply that they do not.
Against USA a military victory is not an option anyway. All we can do is to make it costly for USA. We should actually do that already IMO. Personally I’m boycotting everything American. With the exception of Steam, because Steam supports Linux, and Linux is a part of my independence from USA in so many ways.
Those were victories created by rebel armies that had advantages of being very good at hiding, and attack from hidden positions. Where do you imagine a rebel army would hide in Greenland that wouldn’t be detectable by infrared?
Greenland is country of 50000 people, Afghanistan has 1000 times that population, and Vietnam 2000 times that population.
Sending military from Europe to Greenland would be very exposed and the American military is way superior at present.
Military action is simply not an option against USA. It would be a fight that would need to be fought on other fronts.
I expect that article 42 is not activated because Greenland is an oversea territory but the EU could draw a line in the sand and expell the US from all bases. That would trigger a war cause the US need them to control Africa and Eurasia. So the EU could fight all over the continent if they wanted.
TIL! As a Belgian, I never knew Greenland wasn’t included. Turns out the French and Dutch colonies overseas ARE included and count as “Outermost regions” while Greenland is regarded as part of the “Overseas countries and territories” which are not part of the EU. Make it make sense… :)
So would you be at war if French Guyana was attacked?
As a Dane I am grateful that so many countries have expressed support for Greenland and Denmark in this situation.
Saying and acting are unfortunately a world apart. Let’s hope that expression manifests into something tangible if necessary. I feel like I’m living through my history lessons at the moment and I don’t like what happened next.
I think EU has demonstrated that we can act in concord when needed. We can’t beat USA militarily, but we can make it very expensive for USA if they invade Europe. Europe is already working on independence from USA both economically and militarily, if USA invades a European country, I guess we have no other option than to work with China instead of USA.
I have no idea how Trump see it as a good idea to get former allies to turn against USA. It is already happening to some degree, the alliance is very uneasy now, in a way that has never before been the case between Europe and USA after WW2, and the exact same with Canada and USA.
USA has no real allies left, only allies of convenience. And at some point USA will learn the difference. That point will probably be pretty instant if USA invades Greenland.
We saw what Europe did to defend Venezuela
Europe has no interest in Venezuela, as I’ve mentioned before, nobody likes Maduro.
Why would Europe sacrifice anything to help Venezuela?
We have no alliance or obligation towards Venezuela.
Europe is complicit in America’s crimes since Europe loans money to America. Europe is financing America’s crimes.
It’s not just “no interest” Europe is actively supporting America’s crimes. Also, Venezuela isn’t the first coup and it won’t be the last.
What an absolute bullshit argument! By that standard China would be the most complicit, and China and USA don’t agree on foreign politics.
When you loan another country money, they have to grow that money so they can pay you interest. Stealing another country’s oil is a quick and easy way to make a lot of money which they can use to pay interest.
Yes, China is complicit. But China is also steadily selling all their US treasuries and buying gold with those dollars.
Remember we sanctioned Russia to weaken their economy? The same can be done with America as well.
The last part I agree on, and I am personally sanctioning American products and services hard.
I’m from the US and I’m disgusted and embarrassed with the place. I moved to Sweden recently and if it comes to it I’d sooner help protect your borders than go back to the US
It probably includes most Americans. I think even a lot of his voters don’t want this. He did run on being the candidate of peace and getting us out of wars. That was enough to fool enough people into voting for him.
Yes there are a lot of good Americans, unfortunately they are a minority. 🙁
I don’t think they are. I think the minority are running the show right now.
Technically true but irrelevant.
A majority of Americans do not give a shit about Danemark and would not lift their pinky to help one of their staunchest allies. That is true.
MAGA is a (large) minority. That is also true.
This is all enabled by a very sizeable chunk of Americans being literally mentally unable to conceptualize people outside their village as living, breathing, fully conscious people deserving of love and safety. They are colloquially known as “non-voters”.
Would be pretty great if the majority could do something about it, then.
It sure would be. The problem is we have a republic, not a democracy. So even though a candidate runs on one thing, if they change their stance then we just have to live with it.
George Washington rolling in his grave right now.
He’s part of the group that setup this republic because they wanted rich white men to run the country…
Unfortunately you are obviously wrong.
Trump got the majority vote, Republicans have behaved like sociopaths for decades, and Trump even turned it up to a whole new level.
It was very obvious, and despite that he got the majority vote. That clearly shows the Majority of Americans accepted these sociopathic policies. There is no way around it, it was too obvious to claim afterwards that “this was not what we voted for”, because USA got EXACTLY what they voted for. And lame excuses like it’s only half the population that vote are frivolous. Because despite the clear danger, people did NOT turn up to vote against Trump.
Everybody who didn’t vote but could have, accepted that Trump might win, and was OK with that.
If you didn’t vote, or voted Trump, you don’t get to whine about it afterwards. It’s not like he changed character after the vote.
Nope a decent plurality does not a majority make
He got slightly less than half of the vote with a voter turnout of 64%, meaning only a third of eligible voters actual voted for him. The turnout in 2024 was slightly lower than 2020, but it was still higher than most years before. He has never even reached 50% approval rating, which is low compared to the highs of most presidents before him.
Fascists rarely have majority support, only needing a reliable plurality. They did gain power because not enough was done to stop them, but the lack of action was not just from non voters. The Democrats made multiple political blunders that even their own internal investigations revealed. Not only did they fuck up on Gaza, they completely dropped the ball on economic issues; failing to even acknowledge problems let alone offer anything new.
No he won the popular vote, there is no evidence otherwise.
And all the ones that didn’t vote who could have, were OK with Trump winning, or else they would have turned up to vote against him.
So 2 thirds either wanted him to win or were OK with it.
He got 2.3 million more votes than Harris, which 1.5% more than her for a grand total of 49.8% of the vote. Almost 2% voted 3rd party, which basically means they didn’t vote in FPTP. That still doesn’t mean a majority voted for him. Both Obama and Biden won more than 50%, so him not breaking that threshold in either election he won was noteworthy. He’s always been the most popular of the unpopular.
You’re not wrong on this point, at least mechanically. Unfortunately for all of us who understand this, most people are don’t view voting this way. They lack the imagination for an election meaning the death of liberal democracy. Many who sat out might not have thought Trump would win. They thought even if he did win, he’d only be as bad as his first term, which while bad, could still be passed off as more of the same. Even to this day, people still think we live in a nation of laws, that things will go back to normal next election, that we aren’t doomed to decades of instability where nothing is off the table.
I really don’t blame them for thinking this, as a Democrats didn’t really campaign with the desperation they needed to. They tried a new way Democrat approach of appealing to the middle, thinking the left was secure. They didn’t harp on project 2025 or Trump’s open promises of dictatorship. They didn’t want people to panic, to realize how fragile things were, to realize that the rich donors they served were already on Trump’s side. They made everyone, even the loyal voters like me, feel like we had no choice in policy. They made clear that their promises of promoting democracy and regulating capitalism were lies. They made it as hard as possible to rationally support them, so I’ll never blame those who didn’t vote blue more than I blame the Democrats.
You are correct that Americans failed to prevent this; that everything we see is our collective fault. However, most don’t want this. Fascism taking power doesn’t mean it is popular or what most really want. It’s stupidity, not malice.
OK I suppose that the claim is based on that he got more votes than the Harris.
There were massive warnings about exactly that part not being the case. If they thought that they were disregarding very clear warnings. And it doesn’t change the fact that they let the malignant narcissist win. I wrote numerous times here on Lemmy: “As a rule of thumb, don’t vote for the sociopath.”
It’s insane that such an easy to understand rule was not heeded.
Even if the Democrats had the lamest campaign ever, people should not have allowed Trump to win. It’s a basic matter of insanity over sanity. Sanity is more boring, you can’t blame the democrats for that part. It was also a matter of sanity versus sociopathy, and that brings us back to the “rule”.
100% the American population as a whole is to blame for the election of Trump, all excuses are bad excuses. The only ones that get to complain are the ones that actually voted democrat. And why would you and how can you defend those that didn’t, considering the facts I mention?
Problem is that it is actually pretty popular in USA! It may not have a majority, but my guess is that about 30% actually support a fascist regime in USA, no more power to the libs!!
A lot of people would love that.
The American society is mentally ill, the people indoctrinated with freedom and wealth as the ultimate highest achievable values, and they see sociopathy as an expression of ultimate freedom, and they idolize the rich as a higher class of society.
When I write the American society is mentally ill, I do not mean that figuratively, I mean it literally. It may be hard to understand and accept as an American, because in USA extreme evil is seen as normal. Gun shootings, removing food stamps, taking away health care, having an unlivable minimum wage, 3 times and you’re out, stand your ground, taking away voting rights, giving tax cuts to the 1% when they already pay lower tax than normal people.
The list goes on and on with systemic problems in USA. Systemic problems that ALWAYS benefit the rich and hurt the poor.
Wake up!
Support means little to nothing.
I want to see actions with words, I need to see actions with words. So far, trump takes and people take a step back. Trump takes again and governments protest, but they step back.
Here too, trump takes a country, murders some innocent civilians and military, and then the Cheetos threatens Greenland, AND YOU GOT SUPPORT?
You ain’t got shit. Empty words, not even on paper but on some website.
What people and countries do when Greenland will be invaded, and it will be, will matter. This, so far, hasn’t been shit and I suspect that once Greenland gets invaded and stolen, god knows what will happen to it’s inhabitants, nobody will do anything more than weakly protest
They be moooonitoring
As a Spaniard I will tell you one thing, the borders of the EU are my borders, a violation of them is an attack on my country, from that moment on I would be at war without a doubt. But Greenland is not EU, it would be like Ukraine, send weapons, ok, send money, ok, diplomatic aid, ok; direct involvement in the war, send soldiers or something, no thanks
Hey there, how would you feel about the Canary Islands being annexed? Is that EU enough for you?
Unlike Greenland, the Canary Islands are 100% territory of the European Union, and it is not about simple reciprocity. If that were the case, Malta, I don’t think it would contribute much, and between brothers, there is no need to expect to receive the same treatment. The question is whether the Greenlanders see me as a brother, with whom they share a vision of the world or a shared common project, their political decisions in recent decades imply that they do not.
Against USA a military victory is not an option anyway. All we can do is to make it costly for USA. We should actually do that already IMO. Personally I’m boycotting everything American. With the exception of Steam, because Steam supports Linux, and Linux is a part of my independence from USA in so many ways.
What’s with Afghanistan and Vietnam?
Those were victories created by rebel armies that had advantages of being very good at hiding, and attack from hidden positions. Where do you imagine a rebel army would hide in Greenland that wouldn’t be detectable by infrared?
Greenland is country of 50000 people, Afghanistan has 1000 times that population, and Vietnam 2000 times that population.
Sending military from Europe to Greenland would be very exposed and the American military is way superior at present.
Military action is simply not an option against USA. It would be a fight that would need to be fought on other fronts.
I expect that article 42 is not activated because Greenland is an oversea territory but the EU could draw a line in the sand and expell the US from all bases. That would trigger a war cause the US need them to control Africa and Eurasia. So the EU could fight all over the continent if they wanted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_European_Union
Good point.
TIL! As a Belgian, I never knew Greenland wasn’t included. Turns out the French and Dutch colonies overseas ARE included and count as “Outermost regions” while Greenland is regarded as part of the “Overseas countries and territories” which are not part of the EU. Make it make sense… :)
So would you be at war if French Guyana was attacked?