Yeah. It’s a real criteria to vegan food, it has to be given with consent. It’s an intentional thing to exclude animals and animal-derived products, like milk or honey.
There’s an interesting argument that honey can be vegan, by that criteria.
A bee colony is not generally trapped in a hive. They are capable of leaving, if it’s not to their standards, or they find somewhere between. The catch is that artificial bee hives are amazing for bees, compared to natural locations. The only catch is the “rent” taken by the eldritch creatures. They never take too much however, only taking excess the hive doesn’t need.
Basically bees could be argued to be paying rent, in honey, for high quality accommodation.
My dad’s a beekeeper, and I’ve had the (dis)pleasure of helping him with his post-retirement hobby.
He extracts honey after every nectar flow throughout the year. Usually there’s 3-6 of those, depending on how much it’s rained.
Every single winter, he has to feed the bees sugar water and sugar bricks instead of giving them the honey they worked hard to create in the preceding seasons so they don’t die. This practice was the moment I considered beekeeping unethical because he’s robbing the bees of their agency, and controlling their diet. Controlling animals and their behaviors by stealing from them isn’t ethical. It’s placing bees in a permanent subservient state as they keep making more and more and more honey, when in the wild they’d only make as much as they need.
Couple that with how my dad also sets up swarm traps such that when the bees leave and take off from their old hive because it was unsuitable, they’re often re-captured and sent right back to the slave camp.
And let’s not kid ourselves about the quality of beehives. Biological threats like the parasitic varroa mite, hive beetles, ants, moths, and an assortment of other bugs are always on the attack to steal honey. If not caught in time with things like detergent, diatomaceous earth, or gas fumigation, this can destroy an entire box of honey, let alone the hive itself. My dad has to constantly be on the lookout for these threats, and use chemicals that often also impact the bees themselves. So he’s sacrificing some of the hive to save the rest of it. The “high quality accomodation” is a facade.
Then you have to speak about the numerous impacts honeybees have to the surrounding environment, like spreading viruses, hogging resources over other pollinators, fighting other bees, etc. That’s not ethical either, as much as we like to use honeybees to pollinate our own domesticated foods.
Animals of every kind deserve agency, autonomy, control over their behaviors and resources, free movement, and the right to protect themselves. Hobbyist and industrial beekeeping rejects all of this.
I get the ethics of that concept. however… it is a tool we can use?
Horror level sci fi thought experiment that has no material relevance, only an abstract though experiment.
let’s say I use artificial selection to breed intelligent animals that will consent (yhea, far fetched, but it’s a thought experiment so let’s accept that premise). you might point that consent ends when the breeding program began, but all I had to do is take away candidates that aren’t good from the breeding pool and let them breed freely. That as consentual as wildlife breeding gets.
The creature offers Zaphod and his party his shoulder, braised in a white wine sauce, then goes on to offer other parts of its body, having worked hard to fatten itself up through force-feeding itself for months. Eventually, after Arthur and Trillian have expressed their shock and Ford has expressed his disinterest, Zaphod requests four rare steaks and the Dish of the Day goes off to shoot himself, telling Arthur not to worry, as he says “I’ll be very humane.”
it will likely only hurt those who consent to participate, so still. not sure if that should be illegal, usual doing stupid dangerous (to the self) isn’t illegal.
there’s no law that says I can’t shove fireworks up my arse. it’s a bad idea and I shouldn’t do it, but that isn’t illegal
I imagine you can get psoriasis on most skin on your body - but you can’t “catch it” from someone else, even if you did eat fried skin-flakes at a party.
Not really. The cells in your mouth shed so quickly that psoriasis would be the same as normal for them, so even if you did have it, you probably would never be able to tell.
I strongly disagree. He can be circumcised, again and again and again! A ocean safe alternative to calamari!
Hold up! We could end world hunger! Just like wood supplies, with a permanently lying pinocchio…
ok, i see the grotesque in there. but… that’s the worst cut off meat to serve, just skin and tendons…
The forearm can get quite meaty.
yhea, but not sure about that part.
I am a 300 lb lifter. I promise you there is a fuck ton of meat there.
I mean, yhea, but for the same pain you get much more, and less chewy meat from other parts
If I had endless meat, this is probably the best bet. I can’t access my ass easily. My thigh, sure, bit with Deadpool’s build why bother?
Point is, that is like a calf. It is a solid chunk and is rather convenient.
Easier to reach than the rump. I guess the thigh would’ve been a better compromise.
I think the rump is less sensitive than the thigh. not once you are past the skin it makes no difference.
also, those are all tumours anyways, hopefully no teratomas,
Bingo
Stem cells.
It would have cost you zero dollars not to say this
Ahh, but then how would have had this interaction!
same goes to you
Vegan calamari! Wolverine can consent.
I don’t know about Vegan…
Yeah. It’s a real criteria to vegan food, it has to be given with consent. It’s an intentional thing to exclude animals and animal-derived products, like milk or honey.
There’s an interesting argument that honey can be vegan, by that criteria.
A bee colony is not generally trapped in a hive. They are capable of leaving, if it’s not to their standards, or they find somewhere between. The catch is that artificial bee hives are amazing for bees, compared to natural locations. The only catch is the “rent” taken by the eldritch creatures. They never take too much however, only taking excess the hive doesn’t need.
Basically bees could be argued to be paying rent, in honey, for high quality accommodation.
My dad’s a beekeeper, and I’ve had the (dis)pleasure of helping him with his post-retirement hobby.
He extracts honey after every nectar flow throughout the year. Usually there’s 3-6 of those, depending on how much it’s rained.
Every single winter, he has to feed the bees sugar water and sugar bricks instead of giving them the honey they worked hard to create in the preceding seasons so they don’t die. This practice was the moment I considered beekeeping unethical because he’s robbing the bees of their agency, and controlling their diet. Controlling animals and their behaviors by stealing from them isn’t ethical. It’s placing bees in a permanent subservient state as they keep making more and more and more honey, when in the wild they’d only make as much as they need.
Couple that with how my dad also sets up swarm traps such that when the bees leave and take off from their old hive because it was unsuitable, they’re often re-captured and sent right back to the slave camp.
And let’s not kid ourselves about the quality of beehives. Biological threats like the parasitic varroa mite, hive beetles, ants, moths, and an assortment of other bugs are always on the attack to steal honey. If not caught in time with things like detergent, diatomaceous earth, or gas fumigation, this can destroy an entire box of honey, let alone the hive itself. My dad has to constantly be on the lookout for these threats, and use chemicals that often also impact the bees themselves. So he’s sacrificing some of the hive to save the rest of it. The “high quality accomodation” is a facade.
Then you have to speak about the numerous impacts honeybees have to the surrounding environment, like spreading viruses, hogging resources over other pollinators, fighting other bees, etc. That’s not ethical either, as much as we like to use honeybees to pollinate our own domesticated foods.
Animals of every kind deserve agency, autonomy, control over their behaviors and resources, free movement, and the right to protect themselves. Hobbyist and industrial beekeeping rejects all of this.
I get the ethics of that concept. however… it is a tool we can use?
Horror level sci fi thought experiment that has no material relevance, only an abstract though experiment.
let’s say I use artificial selection to breed intelligent animals that will consent (yhea, far fetched, but it’s a thought experiment so let’s accept that premise). you might point that consent ends when the breeding program began, but all I had to do is take away candidates that aren’t good from the breeding pool and let them breed freely. That as consentual as wildlife breeding gets.
would eating the meat of those animals be vegan?
fuck there’s a Rick and Morty episode about that.
Or comedy-level sci-fi.
https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Ameglian_Major_Cow
If I surgically remove a SatansMaggotyCumFart steak it’s vegan and vegans can cook and eat it.
yet consentual cannibalism is illegal
And it should remain so as long as we don’t have a proper way to deal with prions.
it will likely only hurt those who consent to participate, so still. not sure if that should be illegal, usual doing stupid dangerous (to the self) isn’t illegal.
there’s no law that says I can’t shove fireworks up my arse. it’s a bad idea and I shouldn’t do it, but that isn’t illegal
Being legal or illegal doesn’t mean it’s vegan or not though.
fair enough, but according to the concent idea of veganism, you’re technically right, giving people your own meat is vegan.
A better middle ground: graft genetically modified pork onto a human for like a day.
OR… Find people losing weight from ozempic and have them get surgery to remove excess skin. Sell it as “lab-grown meat.”
… […]and yet the willingly offered menstrual black pudding and psoriasis crackling again remained untouched at the vegan dinner party.
Edit: Just realised black pudding might be a bit too regional. Black pudding (wiki link) is a “sliced blood sausage”
Yeah, well, part II of something being vegan is that it has to be accepted with consent as well.
Can… my mouth get psoriasis?
I imagine you can get psoriasis on most skin on your body - but you can’t “catch it” from someone else, even if you did eat fried skin-flakes at a party.
Not really. The cells in your mouth shed so quickly that psoriasis would be the same as normal for them, so even if you did have it, you probably would never be able to tell.
Lovely! Crunchy snack, here I come!
So do the plants consent?
Of course not. It’s a silly concept.
Which is exactly why it’s hilarious that vegans should be eating fried foreskins.
You made my day.
Huh, til I thought it was mainly “no animal or animal bi products” not just from the consent portion
by the way, sometimes bi erasure is good
Endless organ harvesting.