In all seriousness, it is mostly cis men doing this.
edit: this was meant to be a joke, but honestly the amount of mansplaining in this thread and the responses below this comment has unfortunately altered this into a true statement. What have you all done?
Since men are still getting angry and messaging me:
No I couldn’t, because everyone would think it’s just some white supremacist/manosphere/redpill nonsense, and likely the only people who would show up would be those types anyway.
Literally every other demographic gets their own “spaces” and “identity groups,” and if a white man shows up to those they’re seen as invading where they don’t belong. In mixed-identity spaces, white men are sidelined because they’re the “oppressors” and nobody wants to hear their input, perspective, or opinion. But if white men form an identity group, then everyone assumes it’s about racism and sexism. And if a white man self-isolates, then he gets called an incel and a creep.
There’s literally no good option available other than to be a self-effacing fly on the wall who passively agrees with everything said by a woman or person of color and never critiques, questions, seeks clarity, nor adds nuance.
Women get “women’s spaces,” but “men’s spaces” are to be deplored. BIPOC get “BIPOC spaces,” but “white spaces” are to be abhorred. LGBTQ+ get “queer spaces” but “straight spaces” are to be despised.
And if people say “all spaces are straight white male spaces by default,” then why is it unacceptable to boot anyone else out of those spaces? If someone of a different demographic shows up and starts demanding the narrative/vibe/atmosphere shifts to suit their sensibilities, anyone who doesn’t comply is seen as a racist/sexist/homophobe. But careful not to walk on too many eggshells, because it’s actually offensive to even imply that someone might be easily offended.
Literally the only other option is to hang out in actual racist/sexist/homophobic spaces, which I don’t want to do because I detest those types of people. I just want a space where I can hang out and feel welcome and taken seriously while retaining a modicum of self-respect. But this default view of “white man = oppressor (unless gay)” kinda gets in the way of that. And no one cares if I complain about it, or even believes I could have anything worth complaining about.
That’s what I mean by “white working class men are being excluded from class solidarity.” Maybe don’t force them into racially homogenous echo chambers and movements like trumpism won’t gain any momentum?
Did you miss the part where I said that I don’t either? I’d rather wither away in isolation than hang out with maga types.
In terms of sheer numbers, however, when a large portion of a certain demographic are made to feel rejected from mainstream society, they tend to form a counterculture. In this case, a large portion of the maga base might not have become so vile if they had found validation and acceptance anywhere else. I’m not saying the maga base wouldn’t be vile, but their numbers would be much smaller without anyone to recruit.
Do you have a friend group? Is it culturally diverse? Do you feel respected within it? Or if it’s all white dudes, does anyone ever suggest it’s too homogenous?
Or are you a loner like me? If so, how do you feel about that? Does anyone ever treat you like your isolation is a moral failing on your part?
Imagine if a man were to make a “joke” at women’s expense, and then when women get angry in the comments he says “see, women are sensitive/emotional creatures after all!”
It wouldn’t be the “gotcha” that you seem to think this is. So tell me, what’s different?
Also, just because the people responsible for the turmoil are overwhelmingly cishet men, does not mean that cishet men writ large are overwhelmingly responsible for it. That’s painting with a very large brush, and it should be no surprise that people got upset about it.
When else is it ever okay to blame an entire demographic for the actions of a very small percentage of them? What are working class white men supposed to feel when you lump them into the same category as the oligarchs with such sweeping generalizations? Do you see how that might impede class solidarity?
Also, “/s” is an abbreviation of a word, which everyone on the internet understands and knows what it means. That doesn’t change the fact that you said you were serious, only to backtrack and say you were joking.
Imagine if a man were to make a “joke” at women’s expense, and then when women get angry in the comments he says “see, women are sensitive/emotional creatures after all!”
Having been around since 1978 i assure you this this was the case for a very long time and still very much is the case in parts of the internet.
Well in those cases, it’s wrong. And in this case, it’s still wrong. Just because it’s happened the one way, doesn’t make the other way okay. Both are wrong.
The equivalency stands. And if you don’t think so, then you’re a hypocrite.
Not saying one is right, but there are a lot of things you need to learn beyond your kindergarten level of right and wrong about power dynamics and how actions and comments impact differently across these strata. The fact I had to point out to you that men denigrating women is the majority of western history and am now also pointing out there’s a sharp uptick very loudly occurring right now makes me think you are not in a position to start screaming hypocrisy because some rando talked shit about cis men on a single lemmy thread.
I’m agender, and this person is reminding me of all the mean girls who bullied me for not being femme enough. It’s the same kind of middle school logic that said that me not wearing makeup made me a man, and that I ought to kms.
I honestly think that assholes follow the standard deviation pattern in humans, regardless of biology. It’s only when you start looking at categories that can self-select for behavior that you start seeing an over-representation of them.
Okay, ngl most of these comments are just funny stupid man shit, but now you’re calling me a bigot for literally pointing out indisputable facts about a patriarchal society.
Chuds are not your friend, they will not reward you for siding with them.
Goddamn, imagine if I were to go around describing feminism as “stupid woman shit” (I wouldn’t, because actually I agree with a lot of feminist philosophy such as bell hooks and Carol Gilligan, whom you’ve apparently never heard of).
But let’s just say I did. Imagine your reaction. And then go look in a fucking mirror. Newsflash: you are a bigot.
And then to call your generalizations and assumptions “indisputable facts” is a new level of arrogance. Do you even hear yourself?
There is also zero reward for siding with people who think that if you’re not a woman, you’re a man.
Turns out, what you’ve got in your pants has nothing to do with who you are as a human, and I’ve got penis-having friends who don’t judge me for not being femme.
I’m not recycling any talking points, whatever tf a “chud” is. My points were valid, and since you refuse to address them rationally and instead resort to insulting me (and half the world’s population at that), I can only assume you don’t have a valid response.
You would pout if someone made light of misogyny, and yet here you are making light of misandry. Are you aware of your double-standard, or completely blind to it?
Imagine a man making fun of women for something stereotypical, and imagine the response you would have. Then ask yourself, are you really any better than those “men” you despise so much?
Like, honestly, I’m politically left and believe in social progress and egalitarianism and all that, but comments like yours make me really not want to care about the oppression of people like you.
According to this, it’s rural, non-black christians doing this. Men were more likely to vote Trump, but the effect is nowhere near as strong as the urban/rural, christian/atheist and black/non-black divide.
Granted, the billionaires who benefit from this are almost all cis men, but non-billionaire women have been duped nearly the same as much as non-billionaire men.
True. If they didn’t rely on small and unrepresentative samples (or often the imagination of themselves and others) to judge broad population groups and topics of discussion, they by definition wouldn’t be bigots.
Triggering the boys’ club on Lemmy has accidentally become a hobby of mine. All I do is point out misogyny, which there is a lot of on here, and the club decends upon me. At a certain point the downvotes and insults become cathartic because they’re just proving my point. They never even try to convince me that they aren’t misogynists, it’s just pure insults. At least you got some honest discourse mixed in with the bullshit, lol.
As a cis white man, I’m just glad to finally get credit for something. DEI and woke has made it really difficult for me to be rewarded for other people’s progress in spite of my mere passive existence being an active stumbling block in the path of those who made the poor choice of being born as they were.
I’m sorry that you’ve just now realized you exist in a system that connects you to a social order you have little power over, next few months are going to be rough on you I tell’ya.
Although, I wonder if there’s a word for the conditions that someone would have to exist under to make it possible to come this far in life without ever being forced to learn about this because of their advantageous position in that system. 🧐
Very seldomly do they mention that millennials are the first or second generation to be significantly poorer than the previous one, meaning that we can ill afford what previous generations took for granted.
Also, a lot of the things we’re “killing” are arguably in NEED of killing, such as the cartel-dominated diamond industry, environmentally ruinous and dreadfully expensive sports such as golf, and truly bizarre things like so-called diet products high in sugar and low in protein
It is exactly the opposite because the Internet is and mostly has been a way to connect with like minded individuals. Generations are a new concept to divide us. They are less than a century old.
Before generations we had time periods that united us. We all knew what it meant to live through the 90s, the 80s, fuckin disco. It was commonality with your fellow man. Despite absolutely everyone knowing someone wearing skinny jeans in the early aughts - now it’s a “stupid Millennial” trend.
I got like three dudes genuinely trying to explain it (with wrong answers) within a few minutes. So, seemed necessary so as to not suffer the mansplaining.
There will always be the need to have some societal construct for the grouping of people. People in the same generation were generally subjected to similar living conditions at similar points of their life so it makes it a valid grouping.
If not generations, then what? There is also sexual orientations, political beliefs, race… the list goes on.
Realistically you can’t have 8 billion plus classifications for every distinct person, so at some point there needs to be a generally agreed upon roll up.
Income, average household size, cost-of-living, religious preference, level of education, geography… lots of ways to slice up that poll data once you correlate each polling place with other data. The key here is that it’s possibly more valid to correlate with information that is closer to the election date than birthdays that were decades ago.
Oh yeah, you think everyone born in the late 1940s had similar enough lived experiences to universalise them? That’s incredible that there’s so little variation despite drastically different socioeconomic positionalities, almost like you’d have to dismiss certain experiences that inevitably deviate from that imagined norm to allow it to exist. Of course, there’s only so many ways to account for everyone, so we will have to accept these dominant constructions of human experience as something inevitable as well.
You completely missed my point. Generation is a valid grouping even if you don’t like it. Yes there are others that may work, some may be better, some may not. But it is still a unifying thread. Take Xellenials (micro-generation between X and Millenial), it’s described as an “analog childhood and digital adulthood” that is somewhat that pretty much everyone in that generation was subject to, so yeah it was a “similar enough lived [sic] experience to universalize them”.
I don’t think it’s similar living conditions but more of significant world events in their lives. With say Boomers you have Vietnam, Civil Rights, and Reagan as examples that shaped their world views. Not all are shaped the same way but it affected them. Like with Millennials, we have the proliferation of the internet, 2001, and 2008. These have seriously affected how we think and act to differing degrees in the USA.
True, but to a MUCH higher degree in the US than almost everywhere else.
Just like all western countries have different degrees of under-regulated capitalism but the US is a near-limitless eldorado for the rich and powerful.
Jfc how are people still talking about generations?
Exasperation, not a genuine question ^
Because it is an effective distraction from the actual problem which is class war.
Billionaires and their followers are the problem, not people of a certain age, gender, skin colour etc. etc.
In all seriousness, it is mostly cis men doing this.
edit: this was meant to be a joke, but honestly the amount of mansplaining in this thread and the responses below this comment has unfortunately altered this into a true statement. What have you all done?
Since men are still getting angry and messaging me:
You’re doing the thing.
do i get to do the “i swear it’s everyone but me” dance or do you want to do it
I guess “class solidarity” only applies to everyone but cis men.
And then when cis men say their identities are being attacked/invalidated, everyone’s like “nuh uh, you don’t even have an identity!”
If it makes you feel better you could host a parade or gathering or something.
No I couldn’t, because everyone would think it’s just some white supremacist/manosphere/redpill nonsense, and likely the only people who would show up would be those types anyway.
Literally every other demographic gets their own “spaces” and “identity groups,” and if a white man shows up to those they’re seen as invading where they don’t belong. In mixed-identity spaces, white men are sidelined because they’re the “oppressors” and nobody wants to hear their input, perspective, or opinion. But if white men form an identity group, then everyone assumes it’s about racism and sexism. And if a white man self-isolates, then he gets called an incel and a creep.
There’s literally no good option available other than to be a self-effacing fly on the wall who passively agrees with everything said by a woman or person of color and never critiques, questions, seeks clarity, nor adds nuance.
Women get “women’s spaces,” but “men’s spaces” are to be deplored. BIPOC get “BIPOC spaces,” but “white spaces” are to be abhorred. LGBTQ+ get “queer spaces” but “straight spaces” are to be despised.
And if people say “all spaces are straight white male spaces by default,” then why is it unacceptable to boot anyone else out of those spaces? If someone of a different demographic shows up and starts demanding the narrative/vibe/atmosphere shifts to suit their sensibilities, anyone who doesn’t comply is seen as a racist/sexist/homophobe. But careful not to walk on too many eggshells, because it’s actually offensive to even imply that someone might be easily offended.
Literally the only other option is to hang out in actual racist/sexist/homophobic spaces, which I don’t want to do because I detest those types of people. I just want a space where I can hang out and feel welcome and taken seriously while retaining a modicum of self-respect. But this default view of “white man = oppressor (unless gay)” kinda gets in the way of that. And no one cares if I complain about it, or even believes I could have anything worth complaining about.
That’s what I mean by “white working class men are being excluded from class solidarity.” Maybe don’t force them into racially homogenous echo chambers and movements like trumpism won’t gain any momentum?
Lol. “They are making me hang out with racists and homophobes” is a remarkably strange thing to say.
I’m cis and I’ve never felt the need to accommodate racists and homophobes.
Should I feel more attacked?
Did you miss the part where I said that I don’t either? I’d rather wither away in isolation than hang out with maga types.
In terms of sheer numbers, however, when a large portion of a certain demographic are made to feel rejected from mainstream society, they tend to form a counterculture. In this case, a large portion of the maga base might not have become so vile if they had found validation and acceptance anywhere else. I’m not saying the maga base wouldn’t be vile, but their numbers would be much smaller without anyone to recruit.
Do you have a friend group? Is it culturally diverse? Do you feel respected within it? Or if it’s all white dudes, does anyone ever suggest it’s too homogenous?
Or are you a loner like me? If so, how do you feel about that? Does anyone ever treat you like your isolation is a moral failing on your part?
I genuinely would like to know.
Oh, is that the joke?
Since when does “in all seriousness” mean “actually not seriously at all, and this is totally a joke”?
Do words mean nothing anymore? There’s even a “/s” specifically for instances when you mean the opposite of what you say, and you didn’t use it.
That’s on you, dude.
Oh my, you misunderstood. I don’t care if people didn’t get it, that so many men got angry was just an opportunity to make the second joke above.
A joke is also not necessarily untrue, it is a fact that cishet men are overwhelmingly responsible for the turmoil this meme references.
“/s” would also be an abbreviation, not the word itself. Since y’know, you’re concerned with the meanings of words.
Imagine if a man were to make a “joke” at women’s expense, and then when women get angry in the comments he says “see, women are sensitive/emotional creatures after all!”
It wouldn’t be the “gotcha” that you seem to think this is. So tell me, what’s different?
Also, just because the people responsible for the turmoil are overwhelmingly cishet men, does not mean that cishet men writ large are overwhelmingly responsible for it. That’s painting with a very large brush, and it should be no surprise that people got upset about it.
When else is it ever okay to blame an entire demographic for the actions of a very small percentage of them? What are working class white men supposed to feel when you lump them into the same category as the oligarchs with such sweeping generalizations? Do you see how that might impede class solidarity?
Also, “/s” is an abbreviation of a word, which everyone on the internet understands and knows what it means. That doesn’t change the fact that you said you were serious, only to backtrack and say you were joking.
Having been around since 1978 i assure you this this was the case for a very long time and still very much is the case in parts of the internet.
Don’t try that equivalency.
Well in those cases, it’s wrong. And in this case, it’s still wrong. Just because it’s happened the one way, doesn’t make the other way okay. Both are wrong.
The equivalency stands. And if you don’t think so, then you’re a hypocrite.
Not saying one is right, but there are a lot of things you need to learn beyond your kindergarten level of right and wrong about power dynamics and how actions and comments impact differently across these strata. The fact I had to point out to you that men denigrating women is the majority of western history and am now also pointing out there’s a sharp uptick very loudly occurring right now makes me think you are not in a position to start screaming hypocrisy because some rando talked shit about cis men on a single lemmy thread.
I’m agender, and this person is reminding me of all the mean girls who bullied me for not being femme enough. It’s the same kind of middle school logic that said that me not wearing makeup made me a man, and that I ought to kms.
I’m sorry you experienced that, those people didn’t deserve you. Bigots exists in every gender, unfortunately…
I honestly think that assholes follow the standard deviation pattern in humans, regardless of biology. It’s only when you start looking at categories that can self-select for behavior that you start seeing an over-representation of them.
Okay, ngl most of these comments are just funny stupid man shit, but now you’re calling me a bigot for literally pointing out indisputable facts about a patriarchal society.
Chuds are not your friend, they will not reward you for siding with them.
Goddamn, imagine if I were to go around describing feminism as “stupid woman shit” (I wouldn’t, because actually I agree with a lot of feminist philosophy such as bell hooks and Carol Gilligan, whom you’ve apparently never heard of).
But let’s just say I did. Imagine your reaction. And then go look in a fucking mirror. Newsflash: you are a bigot.
And then to call your generalizations and assumptions “indisputable facts” is a new level of arrogance. Do you even hear yourself?
There is also zero reward for siding with people who think that if you’re not a woman, you’re a man.
Turns out, what you’ve got in your pants has nothing to do with who you are as a human, and I’ve got penis-having friends who don’t judge me for not being femme.
#notallmen. Hmm, yes, of course, how could I make fun of men when it isn’t all men. This is misandry! 😰
Since you’re just recycling chud talking points here’s a recycled joke:
I’m not recycling any talking points, whatever tf a “chud” is. My points were valid, and since you refuse to address them rationally and instead resort to insulting me (and half the world’s population at that), I can only assume you don’t have a valid response.
You would pout if someone made light of misogyny, and yet here you are making light of misandry. Are you aware of your double-standard, or completely blind to it?
Imagine a man making fun of women for something stereotypical, and imagine the response you would have. Then ask yourself, are you really any better than those “men” you despise so much?
Like, honestly, I’m politically left and believe in social progress and egalitarianism and all that, but comments like yours make me really not want to care about the oppression of people like you.
According to exit polls, no it’s not.
e.g. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voting-patterns-in-the-2024-election/
According to this, it’s rural, non-black christians doing this. Men were more likely to vote Trump, but the effect is nowhere near as strong as the urban/rural, christian/atheist and black/non-black divide.
Granted, the billionaires who benefit from this are almost all cis men, but non-billionaire women have been duped nearly the same as much as non-billionaire men.
Statistics don’t matter to bigots.
True. If they didn’t rely on small and unrepresentative samples (or often the imagination of themselves and others) to judge broad population groups and topics of discussion, they by definition wouldn’t be bigots.
Well that isn’t 100% true. There’s a bunch that like to parrot b******* crime statistics.
Okay, this was a joke but saying its bigoted to make fun of cis men is a new level of fragile masculinity
Triggering the boys’ club on Lemmy has accidentally become a hobby of mine. All I do is point out misogyny, which there is a lot of on here, and the club decends upon me. At a certain point the downvotes and insults become cathartic because they’re just proving my point. They never even try to convince me that they aren’t misogynists, it’s just pure insults. At least you got some honest discourse mixed in with the bullshit, lol.
As a cis white man, I’m just glad to finally get credit for something. DEI and woke has made it really difficult for me to be rewarded for other people’s progress in spite of my mere passive existence being an active stumbling block in the path of those who made the poor choice of being born as they were.
I’m sorry that you’ve just now realized you exist in a system that connects you to a social order you have little power over, next few months are going to be rough on you I tell’ya.
Although, I wonder if there’s a word for the conditions that someone would have to exist under to make it possible to come this far in life without ever being forced to learn about this because of their advantageous position in that system. 🧐
I appreciate your apologies. Few people realize how hard it is to be given every advantage, but not have everything.
Ok, I’m done. These sarcastic comments are making me sad.
The answer was “privilege”
Well, corporations created generational division to blame what corporations were doing.
Corporations created anti-union sentiment for obvious reasons.
As evidenced by articles about the worst people in the world lamenting that those young poors aren’t buying enough diamonds, are ruining the economy, killing the golf industry, ruining handshakes, andmuch, much more.
Very seldomly do they mention that millennials are the first or second generation to be significantly poorer than the previous one, meaning that we can ill afford what previous generations took for granted.
Also, a lot of the things we’re “killing” are arguably in NEED of killing, such as the cartel-dominated diamond industry, environmentally ruinous and dreadfully expensive sports such as golf, and truly bizarre things like so-called diet products high in sugar and low in protein
Millenials are killing capitalism :(
Gen Xers are killing anti-union corpotation :((
Before the Internet it was a bigger deal bc culture was different but yeah basically just a distraction
People like to have identities tho and like for this person maybe being GenX means something. Like distrust of systems
It is exactly the opposite because the Internet is and mostly has been a way to connect with like minded individuals. Generations are a new concept to divide us. They are less than a century old.
Before generations we had time periods that united us. We all knew what it meant to live through the 90s, the 80s, fuckin disco. It was commonality with your fellow man. Despite absolutely everyone knowing someone wearing skinny jeans in the early aughts - now it’s a “stupid Millennial” trend.
https://worldhistory.medium.com/where-did-generations-come-from-e2fb73931a88
Love the rhetorical question clarification
I got like three dudes genuinely trying to explain it (with wrong answers) within a few minutes. So, seemed necessary so as to not suffer the mansplaining.
That wasn’t sarcastic, or not directed negatively at you anyway. Love to see clarification, hate that it’s needed
There will always be the need to have some societal construct for the grouping of people. People in the same generation were generally subjected to similar living conditions at similar points of their life so it makes it a valid grouping.
If not generations, then what? There is also sexual orientations, political beliefs, race… the list goes on.
Realistically you can’t have 8 billion plus classifications for every distinct person, so at some point there needs to be a generally agreed upon roll up.
Income, average household size, cost-of-living, religious preference, level of education, geography… lots of ways to slice up that poll data once you correlate each polling place with other data. The key here is that it’s possibly more valid to correlate with information that is closer to the election date than birthdays that were decades ago.
Oh yeah, you think everyone born in the late 1940s had similar enough lived experiences to universalise them? That’s incredible that there’s so little variation despite drastically different socioeconomic positionalities, almost like you’d have to dismiss certain experiences that inevitably deviate from that imagined norm to allow it to exist. Of course, there’s only so many ways to account for everyone, so we will have to accept these dominant constructions of human experience as something inevitable as well.
I wonder if there’s a word for that.
You completely missed my point. Generation is a valid grouping even if you don’t like it. Yes there are others that may work, some may be better, some may not. But it is still a unifying thread. Take Xellenials (micro-generation between X and Millenial), it’s described as an “analog childhood and digital adulthood” that is somewhat that pretty much everyone in that generation was subject to, so yeah it was a “similar enough lived [sic] experience to universalize them”.
I don’t think it’s similar living conditions but more of significant world events in their lives. With say Boomers you have Vietnam, Civil Rights, and Reagan as examples that shaped their world views. Not all are shaped the same way but it affected them. Like with Millennials, we have the proliferation of the internet, 2001, and 2008. These have seriously affected how we think and act to differing degrees in the USA.
Because ideologies are a team sport now. And people need to feel like they’re part of something- regardless of its relevance.
In the US? 🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
Seemingly everywhere.
True, but to a MUCH higher degree in the US than almost everywhere else.
Just like all western countries have different degrees of under-regulated capitalism but the US is a near-limitless eldorado for the rich and powerful.
I’m exhausted just reading that much of your nonsense. Let’s agree to disagree and part ways here.
Sure. It’s not like it’s a good use of my time and effort to try to educate someone who calls objective reality “exhausting nonsense” anyway 🤷