They don’t like talking about it because every interested candidate becomes uninterested immediately after hearing the pay sucks, the hours suck, and the culture is awful.
You dodged a bullet there.
Like a 950 caliber bullet. Depending on the work, a company like that is going to be just as effective as making someone go splat.
yeah it only becomes a problem when every company realizes they can do this at the same time and so being honest in an interview isn’t an edge anymore, since no one is doing it
“How are baby’s made?”
It’s not us, it’s you.
As a manager I’ll give you their thought process and from a mangers perspective it makes sense (albeit still wrong) and you DEFINITELY wouldn’t say it to the applicant.
Managers want robots that do their job and don’t call them out on their bullshit or question the decisions they make or their salary. That way they don’t have to give raises or address issues. When you ask questions on the interview that lead them to believe you are educated and stand up for yourself they don’t want to introduce you into their work bubble of other robots or it would start a rebellion. Hope this helps.
As a manager, I disagree.
Anyone that isn’t asking basic shit about the job is either an idiot or dishonest and I don’t want them on my team. Provide honest answers to these questions immediately, ESPECIALLY work culture and responsibilities. Salary may not be appropriate at this specific stage in the interview, but if it’s the third round or later, it needs to be discussed.
EDIT: depends what type of team you manage I think…
Third round lmao what you guys hiring for, président ?
Engineering
Fair enough, long set are the days when a diploma meant something and now we have to ask interviewers which labubus they own type shit
Sounds like you had some shitty managers. That’s about as dumb as saying that all people interviewing are lazy people with no work ethics and just want to do nothing and get paid.
Based on this screenshot the candidate dodged a bullet because this particular manager/company sounds terrible.
Sounds like you had some shitty managers.
Or some great robots.
It really depends on the type of job. If you are doing a cog-in-the-machine job like anything in retail, gastronomy or customer support, it’s exactly like Pacattack57 described.
I’m a retail manager and I’ve experienced shitty bosses in previous jobs too, and I don’t want my team to feel like a cog in a machine. I make sure my staff can come to me with anything and I’ll be transparent with them, because nobody deserves that kind of treatment if you’re trying to put in work for someone/somewhere. Turns out if your team are happy and trust you, they can even more productive! Who knew, right? 😅
If a candidate didn’t ask any questions at all in an interview, that’s more of a red flag to me because it can show they’re not even interested.
I’m a manager and I do not think like that at all. I want people with the right skillset who can do their job well without babysitting, and I strive to pay them as much I can with the budget.
This is exactly why it should be legally mandated to discuss those things during the interview process.
I’ve found that bad managers tend to think that they are looking for an ideal candidate. That candidate is mind numbingly obsessed with working for them that they will degrade themselves for the opportunity to work for their company. Like they hear fake stories from CEOs and influencers about how when they were working they worked all day every day and skipped lunch to make sure they were the best employee in the company and believe that if you just interview hard enough you’ll find that golden idiot.
As soon as you deviate from that, the manager tells themself “well, this person asked about the work hours and overtime policy, clearly they aren’t ready to work 10 hours a day for no extra pay.” And anyone they do hire will never be enough.
If those very standard topics are verboten during the job interview, imagine what it will be like if you were subordinate to those people.
Bullet dodged.
I hate that OP blacked out the company. Name and shame these fucks.
I feel like people block out names way to often now. I they felt comfortable enough to send this email, I’m sure they’d feel comfortable with it being shared with others, right?
Well they should be, but they could get litigious if they get bad exposure.
Litigious how? It’s not libel, slander, or defamation since it actually happened.
Reality is irrelevant in a court of law.
It’d just discourage companies from sending rejection letters or giving reasons.
Better to flame the situation than the company in this case.
Ah yes the: “Accountability is bad because then those held accountable will try and hide their actions” argument.
It’s not an ideal position to hold as it’s one that’s subservient to abuse and malicious intent
Another thing that needs to be legally mandated. Not only should it be mandated to discuss pay, responsibilities, culture, etc. during the interview process, it needs to be mandated that you receive a fully human written rejection letter explaining in specific detail why they did not select you.
If the USA is remade, I think that all jobs should go through a state and federally controlled job board. The government’s job should be to ensure the things you outlined, and other stuff to help employees be safeguarded from corporate abuse.
For future reference, they can just omit the middle paragraph because nobody cares about the opinion of a company that isn’t hiring them.
I think those are questions you should definitely ask. I’d save them for the end of the interview but definitely ask.
“Summarize this email” Run and don’t look back.
That’s fucking bullshit. 20 years ago, those were just basic things to ask when they say “Do you have any questions for us?” And applicants were actively encouraged to do so by jobs coaches.
If they don’t want people to negotiate their contracts, they should say “Requirements: willing to be exploited and blindly obedient; push-overs preferred.”
It’s common practice now. I’ve been interviewing for over 4 months, and ask these kinds of questions every time (except for the salary). Over a dozen interviews, and not once has there been even a hint of relucrance to respond.
Op dodged a crap company
You shouldn’t have to ask about the salary because that should have been in the job advertisement. Why would anyone even apply for a job if they don’t know what it pays?
Not a thing in continental Europe unfortunately… On the other side, interviewers don’t mind the question at all ime
It’s a huge waste of everyone’s time, including the hiring company, to get to the interview stage only to find out the pay is too low. So stupid.
They do this because the job seeker is already invested, and doesn’t have the time to ponder well their choice, or speak about this with someone else.
They must choose on the spot, and having already invested time. They’ll often accept much lower than they would have otherwise.
For the hirer, it pays off on the long term despite the time they also invest. It’s thousands, even sometimes tens of thousands of dollars saved each year.
I also don’t apply to jobs that don’t show the salary in the posting. But I used to when I was desperate.
You don’t ask about salary? I hope that means you had that discussion before the interview and not that you’re just hoping it’s worth your time
Generally they beat me to it - either it’s posted in the ad, or your asking rate is in the application questions. I do usually wait to ask until later in the process, though - employers can be pretty unreasonable about asking about salaries in general
Run like the wind if you ever see a job still boast about company culture being like “being in a family”
“for future reference…” Like OP is gong to re-apply to this company.
I’d say they answered the question about the culture.
And the salary
Salary: no
In Canada, LMIA had been abused to such an extent the foreign workers were paying the employers to establish a foothold in the country.
Would be nice to name drop these kinds of assholes.
I would love for them to not find a single worker to fill this position and people gradually leaving until it’s just a husk with the C-suite having to do everything or the company just disappearing
I honestly just assume its fake when they dont name drop. I have no doubt it happens, but its just rage bait without any context.
Based on a true story
Don’t doubt that each of those things were used by various companies to not hire people, but listing them all at once in a rejection letter that no companies send anymore is a bit too on the nose.
It may be, but key words are “it happens”.
This is anecdotal, but when I got my very first job interview at a somewhat big local company back when I was 19, the interviewer was apparently very eager to hire me, until I mentioned the salary topic, then her face changed from excited to like “rude, we’re not hiring this guy” almost immediately.
I would name drop them if I remembered the company name.
They ghosted me tho
the C-suite having to do everything
In seconds, how long do you think the company would last?
If it were the c-suite at the company I work at they’d go under in less than a month, they are all nepo hires and dumb as bricks.
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Yeah nice redflag for not working there
