Something I think about after seeing such titles is the fact that education system curriculums have gotten insane around the world. Kids study 3 times more than what I had to study back then. Nearly all are failing. We are really pushing the human limits here.
Yeah that’s what I’ve been saving for at least a decade. Every company I worked for has feature creep in what you are expected to be an expert in and at a certain point you don’t actually know anything you’re just vaguely aware of a lot of different things.
you’re just vaguely aware of a lot of different things.
Same
But are there parents rich?
depends,
in Brazil, public universities are mostly attended by the rich for free
paid ones are usually also mostly attenddd by the rich though on average less rich
the reason? even though there extremely generous inclusion programs and quotas for poor and students that studied in public education system their whole lives the public universities are very competitive and hard to get into and since the basic public school system is utter garbage any student from private schools is at a huge advantage
It’s no surprise that federal public universities have received the highest marks; they are universally recognized as the best. But the evaluation of medical programs has also revealed that tuition fees can be inversely proportional to the quality of the education being offered. Medicine schools that scored the lowest (1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5) charge each student between $1,100 and $2,600 a month, according to a detailed analysis by Veja magazine. This is veritable fortune in a country where the minimum wage is $313 a month.
How can you charge so much compared to their minimum wage and still be so bad?
Ah, the American approach
Ah, the
AmericanCapitalist approachFtfy
fun fact the minimum wage is yearly readjusted and based on the cost of common basic items
how is it so bad? I have no fucking clue, we have chronic critical shortage of medics since as far as I can remember
Trust fund babies. Just like here.
not at all. this is how much private education costs in brazil. most students go in debt to do it, not unlike usians.
there are some exceptions but most trust fund babies are actually in the much superior public university, because they had the better education to pass the hard exams in the first place.
luckily the system has balances to let in a lot of poorer students easier. not nearly enough space for everyone, though.
this, 100% correct, I am a brazillian
I have somehow managed to get in a prestigeous a public university in one of the best campi they have, (though unfortanely in a course that I hate and didnt want to get) and this is genuinely as someone that comes from a self subsistance farmer family the first time I have seen macbooks and ipads in my life (they are seen as status symbols here)
there are state mandated quotas of slots designated exclusively to students that have studied in public highschools and for black or mixed students, inclusion programs for low income students that provide up to half a minimum wage, housing and free food
it is common to say that public universities here are for the rich because, for the most part they are, even with all the support poorer students get, they are still a minority, you will see expensive cars roaming arround in the campus being driven by people who clearly got the drivers license yesterday and dont know what fuck theybare doing, and rich kids outright paying to get help cheating in tests
Students that are paying a fortune can expect and demand high grades for little work, they’re paying extra for the “deluxe” degree where all the hard stuff is done for them. It’s really common with for-profit universities.
Exactly. That’s why the commodification of education is a travesty that can’t be overstated…
kinda like carribean ones, and likely wont be eligble for praticing medicine in the states, because they have much more stringent requirements, which tend to ignore “diploma-mill like medical schools”. if you’re a foreign trained"MD that is not from the UK, aus, EU , canada" you will have a extremely hard time to pratice in the states or in any of those countries.
I mean… American minimum wage comes out to $1256 monthly (assuming full-time, and that’s pre-tax). Community college comes in pretty cheap at $450 a month on average, but four year universities come up to $4,800 on average (assuming full-time enrollment for both). The cheapest MD programs I can find are still close to twice the minimum wage, and that’s assuming you get in-state tuition, since out of state is usually 2-3x more.
Try $290 monthly minimum wage. This is Brazil not America in the article. Unless you’re saying It’s better ratio of wage to tuition than America, which is not hard
It’s about the same is what I was saying, yeah
And that doesn’t include books and other necessary materials.
I’ve studied at a public university in Brazil. Students from private schools were always mocked as being less intelligent and hardworking, starting with the selection process to get in: since everyone wants an education free of cost, the best students are selected for public schools.
But still, I’m pretty sure it’s less of a matter of quality of education, and more of a lack of interest from students combined with a systematic problem of private schools. Hopefully they’re able to require passing this exam to rectify this situation. Currently, that already happens for law schools.
I’ve found in higher education that many programs that act as diploma mills charge a lot because they can. They know the students are just looking for the degree and that the school is probably their only choice.
Meh, it just says new exam was introduces and a lot of students failed. This just means the schools are not good at preparing students for this exam, not that they don’t prepare for practicing medicine. I would say it’s normal that universities will need time to adapt their courses to the requirements of the exams. Maybe students are not well prepared for the format or maybe the just need to put greater focus on different parts of the curriculum. I don’t think this means that graduates are somehow less prepared, just that the new exam is another barrier for them to begin practice which means it will slow down induction of new doctors into the workforce. Hopefully they will adapt fast and this will not have any long term repercussions.
Framed differently, it could mean the new exam is a poor indicator of readiness to practice medicine.
Exactly. Impossible to tell from this article alone.
It could be either way.
In a for profit setting when those who do the work are the very same people/institutions who measure the quality of that work (in this case schools which both teach something and then measure how well that something was taught), it’s not at all uncommon that the measuring methodology gets changed over time to yield better results for the same work rather than the work changing to improve the results in the existing measurement methodology.
This is why independent measuring of results is a thing.
In this case to know for sure we would have to get the opinions of existing medical practicioners who have worked side by side with recent graduates from these and other schools - if they tend to see graduates from these schools as coming in worse prepared than those from other schools, then this outcome we saw is probably due to the kind of situation I described above.
graduate
lack basic knowledge
Why are they graduating in the first place? Who is passing these students? Stop passing students who can’t show they learned anything, maybe? Novel idea, I know.
It’s mostly private institutions passing people because they just care about the money and nothing else.
Those institutions need to lose their accreditation then.
That exam wasnt created for that and there is a very difficult exam to get a residency which is required for more ‘complex’ doctor jobs, so people didnt see the need for that until now. They are working on changes though that could involve shutting down courses that fail to meet the necessary standards
They are restricting new enrollment for now while they make other plans. Removing accreditation would punish the students more than the system. Also, they aren’t all private.
Source? The literal subtitle of the article says it’s private and public institutions.
Try reading beyond the subtitle
Middle of the article:
The medicine schools with the worst scores are mostly municipally owned (created and managed by city councils) or …
Sooo…
Cherry picking huh? Municipal are the smallest and least funded public universities here, the major institutions are all state and federal level, to be honest I didn’t even know there were municipal ones. Reminder that I said ‘mostly’ not ONLY private institutions.
“It’s no surprise that federal public universities have received the highest marks; they are universally recognized as the best. But the evaluation of medical programs has also revealed that tuition fees can be inversely proportional to the quality of the education being offered. Medicine schools that scored the lowest (1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5) charge each student between $1,100 and $2,600 a month, according to a detailed analysis by Veja magazine. This is veritable fortune in a country where the minimum wage is $313 a month.”
Not cherry picking, just wasn’t aware that municipalities were smaller schools. Our school system here works different. Now I know.
They… Are? Seems like a lot of people responding aren’t reading the article, so:
- Brazil is huge, and has the largest public healthcare system in the world.
- This is the first time they’ve conducted a national test against medical universities
- They are not punishing students, but the universities, and restricting new enrollment at them
And no, they are not all private institutions.
Seems like a lot of people responding aren’t reading the article, so
You’re insinuating I didn’t read the article. 😛 But you’re right, I didn’t, because the statement I was referring to is right in the title.
How are they “about to graduate” if teachers weren’t passing them when they shouldn’t have, if they lack basic knowledge? You shouldn’t be reaching the end of your medical programme about to graduate if you haven’t passed any courses. 🤷♂️
Hah, yea, they’re in their last year. It doesn’t say how they are going to handle it. This also means there are graduates who would probably fail, too.
Corruuuuuption!
Americans, pay attention, because this is where you’re headed in speed run fashion
I believe we USians invented the model.
Aha your president represents this exact form of corruption too
All of them, really. This one just hasn’t enough game or reason to hide it.
His brain is too hollow innit
speed run fashion
Always take these stories with a grain of salt. Especially with a salacious headline such as “organization shocked”
Tax your rich, investigate corruption, close the loopholes.
Thank you for the hot topic, One day old account.
The global economy is so broken that there’s barely financial incentive to become a doctor anymore. The system only sustained for so long because we outsourced medical training to places like South Africa.
Removed by mod
What did the Quebecois do to you?
Nothing, I’m a Quebecer maudit tabarnak, I can call ourselves the P word if I want. Heck if our esteemed PM could call us a “bande de mangeux de hot dogs”, what’s the problem?
https://campbellstrategies.com/parli/mangeur-de-hot-dogs/
And for the record, if you’re having difficulties parsing paragraphs, this story is about medical students, why would you infer I am talking about the whole province?
Oh you’re from Quebec? My condolences
Shove off.
The quality of doctors has declined to a shocking degree in just a generation.
lol
Article is about Brazil.
Talks about Canada.
Wtf?
Article is posted to the “world wide web” where mouth-breathing simpletons from around the world dare to comment.
Wtf?
I talked about Quebec.
Wtf?
Article talks about medical students, so did I.
Wtf?
I have analyzed your cerebral capacity to be exactly what modern medicine needs! Have you considered medical school? You’re a shoo-in!
