What we have called “motorcycles” should actually be called “enginecycles”. Also, the engine on enginecycles is a four-cycle engine.

  • fizzle@quokk.au
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    7 hours ago

    I’m a bit triggered by this, so let me apologize in advance for the incoming rant.

    You might be kind of right etymologically, but bikes, e-bikes, motorcycles, and likely in the near future e-motos, are specific things defined by law. The confusion between these vehicle classes is causing harm.

    An e-bike is a pedal powered bicycle with an electric motor that assists the rider while pedalling up to 25km/h. You might be able to switch modes between more assistance and less assistance but there is no throttle.

    If you purchase a cheap walmart / k-mart bike, swap the rear wheel with a powered hub from alibaba and strap on a battery from temu, that’s not an e-bike. They have a throttle and no limiter and in most cases can propel a 12 year old idiot at 50km/h but some times more than 70km/h. This is not an e-bike and more accurately described as an unregulated electric motorbike.

    The frame isn’t built for this kind of stress, and the riders often have no capacity to understand the danger they’re imposing on themselves and others - zipping past kids playing and so on.

    It’s an emerging disaster in Australia and I imagine other places as well. It’s turning the population against e-bikes when they’re not the problem.

    We urgently need more appropriate legislation drafted to clearly define the classes of vehicle, and we need police with the right skills and equipment to enforce those laws.

    • Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
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      4 hours ago

      Your definition is just yours - I see ebikes doing 35mph+ on the sidewalk all the time.

      How do I know they’re going that fast? Because that’s how fast I’m going on the street, and I’m not passing them.

      • fizzle@quokk.au
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        3 hours ago

        Sorry you may not have understood me correctly.

        In Australia and most other jurisdictions an “e-bike” is defined by law as a bike with pedal assist up to 25km/h.

        If a bike has an electric motor which is propelling it faster than that, then it is by definition not an e-bike. It’s most likely an unregulated electric motorbike, or e-moto. They’re incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.

    • Almacca@aussie.zone
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      5 hours ago

      This is the correct take.

      My feeling is that if it’s controlled by a throttle, then it’s a motorbike and it should be registered and require a driver’s licence to operate, and it shouldn’t be on bike paths or footpaths.

      • fizzle@quokk.au
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        4 hours ago

        Yeah that’s the implication, but it’s complicated.

        e-scooters are controlled by a throttle, so I think there’s a debate to be had as to whether that’s a defining factor.

        IMO the throttle is less critical than speed limiting. Anything you can pilot without a license should be restricted to 25km/h.

        The problem is these limitations can easily be removed.

        That’s why I say it really needs proper policing. You need cops on bikes, and some kind of strategy to establish whether a bike is compliant.

        • NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk
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          2 hours ago

          My bro in Berlin mentioned that infrequently the police will see up a rolling road device to stop ebikes, electric scooters etc (anything that by law is speed restricted).

          They do it on a one way road where you can’t see them, with police at the top end to stop anyone that’s clearly seen and turned around to avoid it

          • fizzle@quokk.au
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            18 minutes ago

            Yeah I’ve seen photos of something like this. The one I saw was UK police I think.

            This might work in high traffic areas but where I am there just isn’t enough people on bikes to set up something like this.

            If the po-po stop a kid on a bike they believe is illegally modified, just confiscate and impound it where it can be assessed.

            No one cares if a bike can propel you 3km/h over the limit because you changed the tyre diameter. Even if you updated the software to remove the limiter, that’s not really going to make much difference to safety if I’m honest. It’s the bikes with throttles and big hub motors that spin you up to 20 or 30km/h over the limit that are the problem.

            • NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk
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              2 minutes ago

              Yup, agreed. I’m out in the sticks too, years back I tried to commute the 17 or so miles each way on a gravel bike with a conversion but keeping legal with a 250w motor it just didn’t do anything as there was no stop:starting and I was generally travelling at over the 15.5mph limit so just carrying extra weight.

              Not sure why I mention as it’s a use case error on my part but I do wish I’d got a meatier motor, derestricted it and taken my chances.

    • Beacon@fedia.io
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      6 hours ago

      Yeah the entire nomenclature does a terrible job of differentiating what really matters in vehicle type as a law regulation category. As far as i can see the main factors should be:

      1. Number of wheels
      2. Size dimensions
      3. Weight
      4. Top speed
    • Lodespawn@aussie.zone
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      7 hours ago

      I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a kid riding an actual e-bike, they are never pedaling when I see them …

      • fizzle@quokk.au
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        7 hours ago

        Me neither. There’s probably several reasons you wouldn’t buy a child a proper e-bike.

        Mostly just the cost I guess. A proper e-bike is twice the cost of a home made e-whatever. Also less fun than their friend’s e-whatevers.

    • YellowParenti@lemmy.wtf
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      6 hours ago

      I’ve been following the surron and talaria bikes. These are electric dirt motorcycle. Half the vidoes I’ve seen are ppl riding them on the street. They’ve gotten so fast. They write all over their websites its for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. I want one so bad. Im sure if I ride them slowly on the sidewalk for my commute. I shouldn’t get pulled over.

      • gnu@lemmy.zip
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        5 hours ago

        Depending on where you are you might be able to get a road legal one. Talaria and Surron have both sold road legal versions of some of their models here in Australia, I believe they’ve also done so in the UK and I did read something about some US states letting you register them once appropriate lights are installed.

        Of course this does require you to treat them as a motorbike and keep off footpaths, have the appropriate licence, etc. Once you’ve got the licence you can ride other motorbikes as well though so I don’t see this as a downside (it’s an enjoyable method of transport and more people should do it).

        • NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk
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          2 hours ago

          I’m at the uncool end of that trend in the UK. I dumped my car 4yrs back and got an electric vespa-shaped vehicle. I already had my full bike licence which helped make it an easy decision but even in our weather really enjoyable and nsanely cheap motoring

      • someguy3@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        Changing the name of an existing system is a non-starter. That’s why the new entry is called something else: ebike.