Been thinking about this and want to know if it bugs anyone else.
It’s crazy to me that Twitter, Reddit and Facebook all cut off API access and people just went quiet on it. There was noise and complaints but no solutions. Usually when stuff like this gets locked down a counterculture shows up around it. Workarounds, open alternatives, people who make it their thing to keep it open. Like file sharing or ad blockers.
That didn’t really happen this time and I can’t figure out why. With all the propaganda and fake stuff out there right now, wouldn’t being able to see what’s spreading be important to understand? And isn’t them shutting it down a pretty large signal that it is important?
Maybe there’s a boring explanation I’m missing. But the part that gets me is the other possibility, that there’s some kind of suppression force we might not even be aware of.
Is that terrifying to anyone else or am I overthinking it? Just curious what people who were around for it think.
Apparently you weren’t there. We fought, and left when that failed. I modded dozens of niche subs and took my time elsewhere.
I really do see your point, but I don’t think you’re giving younger generations enough credit. There’s a growing movement of young people opting out of big tech. They’re dusting off their parents’ old iPods, going back to retro games, reading physical books, and so on.
Honestly, I’ve always considered myself a technologist, but with the direction tech is heading, I’ve decided to mostly opt out too.
So much of our technology has been compromised. The oligarchs who control it can use AI to fake whatever they want and push any agenda they like. The disruption you’re describing is nothing compared to the all-out psychological assault we’ve been under for years. Anything you try will get filtered out or buried by their countermeasures.
Open source is the best thing we have going for us. Even so, I think the best thing we can collectively do is… disconnect.
And reconnect IRL.
99% of users on these platforms don’t even know what an API is.
Sure but more of us do here don’t we? I would have thought more people here would share ways to collect it. If we still had access I bet we would have learned alot about how the propaganda is spreading. Who, what and where it was originating from. It’s just strange to me there isn’t a ton of interest in it. Like barely any.
I took people saying they’d punch a nazi to mean they would be willing to fight nazis. Instead I kind of feel like people saw nazis take over their places and went ok we’re going to go over here now.
Whereas I see fighting back as finding out how many comments are needed to tip a post in favor of the left wing, and kicking the nazis off the platform or stopping thier momentum. You know fir mah lazer shit. Leftist coordinate back in the day. Today it’s just not happening.
I just feel like the moment arrived and we were asleep.
People moved to Lemmy to build an open alternative. Everything you described as not happening is happening on Lemmy.
I don’t think there’s much of a counter culture here. Where is it? I see reddit just with smaller communities.
Are there communities of people discussing how to scrape Facebook or Twitter in order to collect analyze and disrupt?
The counterculture on Lemmy is to not use big tech. The culture here is regain control of our digital lives by using open source software and self hosted alternatives to big US technology. To be able to communicate without censorship, without eroding privacy, and without expectation of payment is the goal here. That is completely opposite of anything to do with Facebook or Twitter. Myself and others here don’t see any value with what’s on those platforms.
I’m not sure what you mean by collecting, analyzing, and disrupting. Can you give some examples of what could be accomplished?
First is the counterculture comment. I’ve thought alot about this and I think lemmy has done the opposite. You mentioned regaining control, censorship and payments which are all structure issues. But look at this place. What was actually created here? I’d argue it may even be worse then reddit.
The golden days of reddit and the internet existed for one reason, because they were everything you described. People had control. We had tools that let regular people create and post whatever they wanted, and also control the spaces we participated in. It was essentially a more socialized platform. But eventually reddit and the others wanted to make money, so they drifted toward removing those controls. YouTube removed the downvote button, then brought it back, but now it doesn’t do anything. It gives users the sense they’re doing something but its theater. Reddit and the others did the same. In the end everything was there to serve corporate interests.
Mods were given massive powers because it’s easy to appoint a producer or marketing team as a faceless mod who controls the space. That took away the communities freedom to grow organically. It also opened them up to political interests, like r/canada where a user became a mod, turned out to be a nazi and proceeded to only allow racists. That is exactly what lemmy recreated. It didn’t rebuild what reddit was in it’s best years. It rebuilt the features that allowed corporate control, censorship and the selling off of communities, and nobody questions this. Things are only good now because lemmy isn’t big enough yet. It’s a poison pill waiting to turn because we never addressed the original problems. We just found a new place.
So here’s what I think needs to change. Lemmy should reject mod control measures in favor of community based powers. Mods shouldn’t control communities. Control should be with the people in them, and mods should be there only to handle the most serious issues. Whatever power mods do keep should be transparent so everyone can see whats being removed and why.
Second, you didn’t know what I meant by collecting, analyzing and disrupting. I just mean learning.
My question back to you is this. Take anti vaccination groups, communities that defend rapists, or some of the most vile stuff online. Do you think those are just regular people showing up organically, or do you think there’s networks and information supply lines feeding each other?
I struggle to tell if other people see this the way I do. When you say you’re confused about why we would collect information, analyze it and disrupt things, it makes me think we’re living in two different worlds. It’s like trying to bring up vaccinations on Facebook. I feel like i want to learn a lot of things in life and right now to me this take over of our digital spaces is the most important. So I’m just always taken back when I’m asked “why would you want to”
There are still ways to scrape reddit content without the API, the data isn’t ‘closed’ despite their anticonsumer practices. The main thing you need API for is participating in those sites, and if you want to know what the fighting back is… Well, you’re looking at it. We left! I’m having a grand old time.
I agree. I also wonder why anyone would want to fight for a site that keeps getting worse and worse?
Because these spaces now generate so much racism and anti science and anti leftist trash that it leaks into every part of culture and society. I watch kids on their phones all day. They don’t go to lemmy. They go to Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, Reddit. Everybody here is saying left leaning users all left so what is left? What content are the kids today seeing and learning and building their world views from? I get you don’t personally like it. But are you ready for these kids to be voting and running for government and being your coworkers and employer in the next 10 years?
I think they voted this last time, and I’m all in. There are all ages here on lemmy
And not by accident!
You are literally posting on the platform built to fight back.
🤷♂️
Yeah I came here to say, this is the solution lol
I feel like everyone who cared about reddit closing its API, is here. (I know that’s why I moved here and haven’t been back since.) I stopped using Twitter around the time they started charging more, but Elon kinda killed what was left anyway. I left facebook 10+yrs ago at this point, so I don’t know about their API.
Honestly though, API’s aren’t that big of a deal to 99.9% of people.
The average user doesn’t know or care what API access is. The small percentage who do have moved to the alternatives we have today.
Literally nobody fought back? What’s your definition of “nobody” and “fight back”?
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would say when most comments I saw online said some version of “don’t even argue with them, it’s like wrestling with pigs” is when I started to notice our spaces being given away.
I’ll be the first to admit I’m terminally online. With that comes alot of vibes, so I get this is vibes. But my experience is that leftists don’t like confrontation. I saw many spaces start out resisting when MAGA and racists began to show up, but they quickly lost interest and left. My instinct when I see a space getting turned is to stubbornly prevent it as much as possible. Other people have more common sense. But it’s almost always inevitable.
Look, I noticed this prior to 2016. I know at least one step in how they accomplished this. They built a network. They made some accounts like parent nodes connected to child nodes, and each one would build networks and sub networks in different areas. Then once those accounts had a good amount of real human followers, they connected the human followers together. Now they had a logistical supply line to disseminate information rapidly. The parent node drops a story and within hours its posted everywhere. Then your Dan Bonginos and Charlie Kirks and Shapiros boost it.
It isn’t organic. It didn’t just build itself, it was forced, and the left didn’t do anything similiar.
There were multiple steps where I saw the right building something, and to this day they’re still doing it. Why the fuck is there a Bobs Burgers group on Facebook who only posts about trans people in bathrooms. There’s one for every cartoon.
What i said is hyperbole sure, but like this api issue, I feel like things are oddly silent and I’m worried while the right are building things, we’re destroying them thinking we’re building them.
A lot of the people who could develop workarounds moved to Lemmy. We are the open alternative.
What do you mean by work around?
came to say this. I came during that upheval over here. Ironically not so much because of the api thing as much as I had found there was an alternative. I think I had seen things about mastadon before but I never liked the twitter thing so it did not appeal. When I found out there was an open source and not centralized control forum experience like this I was jazzed.
Cake day: June 12th, 2023
You did. I did. We’re here.
Lemmy launched in 2019, not 2023. I actually looked at it previously and there were like three servers with few communities or topics of discussion other than tankie and extreme-left politics. Now there are a bunch of servers, mostly run by level-headed people, and a bunch of communities about all sorts of topics.
The migration was smaller than I’d hoped, but it happened, and we should do our best to make sure it’s a welcoming place for the next wave.
There definitely seems to be a new wave that I’m a part of. I went to Tumblr from reddit in 2023 but it didn’t really stick. If I get tired of Lemmy I don’t know where I’d go at this point tbh, I’m hoping the federated layout means I can just sort of bounce from instance to instance if one grows stale.
bounce from instance to instance if one grows stale.
You usually don’t need to, because you can reach most communities from most instances.
XMPP was the first to fall and most just accepted it. gTalk federation with Facebook? That was 2015~
Reddit just started a trial in my region where you can’t access it any more without logging in - well fuck them - app deleted, hello Lemmy 🙂
Hello there, grab a cookie!
In my case, it’s because I’m fully done with reddit. There is no salvaging anything from it. I’d rather just be in user-friendly spaces like lemmy and irc.
They did. They just didn’t fight enough or in a tough enough manner. Also, not everyone is so tech literate or even know what that means.
