This is a wild story about
- how running with scissors is a bad idea
- alligator bites can’t even stop a dude on meth
- cops continue to have no clue what de-escalation tactics are
It’s kind of like Florida in a nutshell lol
What if they were meth alligators, and the bites are why he’s high? Then it’s that much more tragic for you to judge.
Honestly I think in this case the cops responded as they should. They tried teasing him and that didn’t do anything and then he tried to take a rifle from them. At that point they didn’t have a lot of options.
The fact that you (an average US citizen, presumably) think tasing is de-escalation is literally part of the problem.
I was trained by US cops multiple times during my 10 years of security work. Sadly, I didn’t receive much for de-escalation training. I had to learn it myself. Oh sure sometimes escalation (like sounding intimidating while moving your hand to your hip) worked as a method of de-escalation, most of the time it was to reinforce the mantra to “ensure you go home at night”.
Tasers aren’t even non-lethal, they are now (properly, with public outcry) considered “less lethal”. No pepper spray or mace mentioned, no trip attacks, no net, no means of incapacitating him before reaching to the nearest gun-like object.
Meanwhile, we have no one there to assess him to determine what his medical and/or psychological needs are, because “he’s dangerous”.
The cops brought the rifle.
I get what you’re saying. I would agree in almost every case. Not on this one. You try to reason with a violent meth head that is this out of his marbles and see how that turns out for you.
lol social workers and public librarians do this every single day without guns
Medical staff do it routinely.
In Florida, medical staff also call “Baker Act” at the drop of a hat which basically puts the offender in a psych ward which is often more abusive than a prison.
Every new thing I learn about Florida makes it sound worse.
I think Florida is situated over a hellmouth or something.
No one said to reason with them. Just neutralise them without using a lethal weapon. Mace, batons and manpower will put any unarmed person on the ground.
So you think beating the shit out of someone is better than tasing them?
It objectively is. Most people are put out of action by 1-2 whacks with a telescope baton. If you’ve ever felt one, you’ll know that your muscles basically go numb when you’re hit - it’s not just pain.
One of the major disadvantages with deploying tasers to untrained people (e.g. American cops), is that it causes them to think they can handle 1-on-1 confrontations and then panic when the taser fails (not unlikely). The safer way to deal with a single unarmed person is to overwhelm them with several people that force them to the ground with sheer volume of baton blows (to the legs/body), pepper spray, and body mass.
most people
I think you’re missing the part where he’s hyped up on meth and adrenaline. I’ve seen people take multiple gunshots in that condition before going down.
Let’s see: do we want to see Daddy all beat up and bloody for a few days while he recovers / detoxes in jail, or do we want a nice tidy closed casket?
He wasn’t unarmed.
Japan has man catcher poles that allow you to subdue someone without getting near them. They allow you to hold the person until they get tired or you can get the weapon away from them.
These should be standard in every police force.
They really should. I’ve never run across this before, but they seem like a great option to have.
Guy in the back is having fun
Idk why you’re being downvoted, you’re right. However my point still stands for anyone not armed with a weapon with decent range.
The point is that you deal with such a person by bringing more people to the scene and swarming them. Any person that is only armed with a short-ranged melee weapon will be quickly overwhelmed by many people with mace and batons coming at them from several sides. If you have any kind of training, you should be able to maintain sufficient distance that they can’t harm you with e.g. a knife, and from there it’s a game of patience to wear them out or find an opening to grab them and swarm them.
Do people become stab proof when they swarm someone with a knife?
deleted by creator
If you think killing people is an okay - and only - method of stopping a human, maybe try to learn more options. YouTube is free.
That’s exactly what I said that the only way to stop people is by killing them. Fuck me, some of you are extremely disingenuous.
They didn’t fucking try to reason, or use reasonable force. They brought a rifle, left their fucking car door open, and killed the dude when he tried to grab it. Meanwhile, no forms of non lethal incapacitation were used. Because they are trained to kill.
Cops are the bad guy, and they made the issue worse by being there, because they aren’t trained to de-escalate.
I’d rather trust a fucking gator wrangler to be more efficient at stopping him.
Tasers aren’t a form of non-lethal incapacitation?
Ok next time you see a meth head running about doing shit like this tell people not to call the cops because you’ll stop him by reasoning with him and hugging him.
Ah most of these people probably think fighting is like the movies. Sure there might have been a better way did they have it nope.
Because they’re taught instead that what they did was acceptable, and this is backed up by chuds in society.
Maybe if you started to be outraged and demanded non-lethal methods, they could have that better way next time.
I know probably less than you do about the story, but is either one of us sure this was really a violent meth head, or is that just what was written in the report / news story?
Maybe tazing someone isn’t the best idea. There are other methods of suppression.
Also once it doesnt work, most police forces in most civilized places know how to take a man down without shooting him up, even if he is trying to take your gun. Its only in the US that cops seem to think fuck any semblance of a threat means I can start blasting people to timbuktu
How would you suppress a guy that just swam in crocodile infested waters and shrugged off a crocodile bite?
Maybe the cops should have tried to ask the erratic, violent meth head trying ti steal their rifles to calm down nicely?
I’ve worked with people that put down much more dangerous subjects than some meth head. I’ve taken part in such operations myself as well.
For any person not armed with a firearm or bladed weapon the answer is simple: You keep them contained without committing to an engagement until you have a sufficient number of people on site (2-4 guys should be enough), then you swarm them with batons and pepper spray. Even the beefiest guy in the world will hit the ground after a solid round of pepper spray and a couple good whacks to the legs and body when they have three guys hanging onto them.
If they have a bladed weapon you do the same thing, but make sure you get vests, longer batons, and more guys. The key is that you want to swarm and overwhelm the subject from all sides in such a way that you can force them to the ground without any individual grappling with them alone.
In all cases, the subject is likely to try to single out individuals in order to attack. Use a baton, pepper spray, a frontal kick, or “running away” in order to keep them contained until you can swarm them. Treat the them like a trapped animal: You want to make sure they can never single out anyone to attack, by constantly controlling distance while you circle them in.
This shit isn’t hard. I’ve worked with 19-year olds that mastered it. These cops fucked up colossally if a meth head was able to start wrestling one of them over control of a gun. This just shows that arming the police with firearms in situations where they aren’t necessary just makes the situation more dangerous for everyone involved. If the meth head gets control of the gun… they now have a gun. An unarmed meth head can be dealt with without bringing a gun to the scene in the first place.
Are you under the impression that the US is the only country with meth? Literally every country mentioned has to deal with meth heads, I assure you. None of them gun those people down. It’s a person having a medical emergency, not a rabid animal on the loose.
Tons of disarming techniques have been available in martial arts to the world for centuries.
Dont think cops should have rifles to begin with, and if they didnt there wouldn’t be any to steal.
Secondly there’s more than one cops, and they are ostensibly trained, though I know that might be going too far. I think 4 or 5 of them should be able to successfully neutralize even a meth head without killing them. People are way too blase about cops just having the ability and immunity to just kill people. Whether or not they’re drug addicts
In order for cops not to have rifles the general population should not be allowed to have rifles. But being that is not the case then I think they are justified in carrying rifles.
That doesn’t mean I think people should have rifles. Before I get bombarded here, it’s just the reality that they have them and that’s not changing anytime soon.
With handcuffs? lol. Do you think that handcuffs just magically don’t work if you’ve been doing drugs?
I mean a crocodile and a taser didn’t stop him, I don’t think they would have easily been able to restrain him let alone get close enough to do so without being injured.
But it’s fine, I’m not gonna argue this anymore. I’m not gonna convince you otherwise, especially if you’ve never seen a psycho meth head.
It’s not PCP. He’s still feeling pain. And police in other countries manage to stop people just fine. Some 19 year old in Germany, not even a police officer, stopped a knife attack the other day. That’s an instance of someone literally trying to kill people and a kid was able to stop them without resorting to guns. It’s a policeman’s job to literally get hurt to protect the populace. If they can’t do that then what point are they. What are we paying them for? Killing people?
I used to work at a junkie hotel. I think you’re the one here that’s only seen junkies on television.
I don’t think they should have teased him. If I’m upset and someone teases me, that just makes me more upset!
spoiler
I kid, I kid. 😂
Hahaha those silly cops!
deleted by creator
They tried teasing him and that didn’t do anything
“HEY FLORIDA MAN! NEE NEER NEE NEER NEEEEEE NEEEERRRR!!! YOU GOT A SMALL WEEEEEIIIIINNNNEEERRRRRR!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!..well that didn’t work…SHOOT HIM!!!”
They had to send the alligators. And when even that didn’t work…
Bullshit, man.
Clock the dude with the handle of a pistol in his head.
Kick him in the balls.
Run away from him.
Blind him.
Not that I agree with some of those options, but my point is, executing a man who clearly needs help ain’t it
Terrible ideas. The first two require you being up close, which is unnecessarily dangerous. The third means abandoning the other people at risk. The fourth is just sadistic and impractical.
They may be. But my point is that you don’t kill someone just because you don’t want to explore other options.
A bit of thought experiment: man is belligerent. Man is trying to reach for a cop’s weapon. Man is subdued somehow. Man goes to court, judge said “you tried to get thia cop’s weapon? Guilty. Sentence: Death”.
Run away. Great idea, now there’s somebody undergoing a psychotic episode and acting violently running around with an assault rifle.
I didn’t say the person got ahold of the rifle. That would be stupid.
Ok fine, running around with a different weapon and acting violently. Still not something where the police should say “who cares, not my problem”
I didn’t say they leave the scene lol!
Just put some distance and re-assess.
Imagine if all of us acted like that. You have a brother, a daughter, an uncle with a mental breakdown, and the first thing a passer-by comes up with is “oh hell naw, let’s kill this person!”
Does no one have a net gun? Nets always work
A witness told detectives they saw the suspect run at deputies with the shears. He was tased twice, but it didn’t stop him.
Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said he climbed into the passenger side of a PCSO patrol vehicle, trying to get a deputy’s rifle.
That’s when two deputies, identified as a trainee and his trainer, opened fire on the suspect, killing him.
If you look up “failing up” in the dictionary, there is a picture of Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd staring back at you with his dead, dead eyes.
Well I guess it’s accurate training.
deleted by creator
Gotta train them to kill young. Or when their brain is fully developed they’ll think about it. Someone would have died anyway. If not this guy then some poor black kid probably.
This is a prime example of when we just need to net gun a dude.
GTA VI live action promotion is wild.
We get GTA6 LARPing before GTA6
The epitome of FloridaMan is now deceased. There will never be another like him.
FloridaMan is like the Slayer. When one dies, another is called.
I would say killing a Florida Man is like cutting the head off a hydra.
Dread Pirate Roberts!
There’s 12 more in the same trailer drug den he crawled out of thankfully!
Region locked
The police do more harm than good
Isn’t that why they were created?
Can some copy/paste article please. Site is blocked in my country
A man in Polk County was shot and killed by deputies on Monday after they say he was armed with garden shears and acting erratically after surviving an apparent gator attack.
Polk County Sheriff’s Office deputies began searching for Timothy Schultz, 42, just before 6 a.m. after a convenience store clerk reported he was acting “bizarre.”
Deputies spend about 40 minutes looking for the man, WFLA says.
Schultz then began swimming in an alligator-infested lake, nearby residents told officials.
A witness tried to throw Schultz a life preserver and another witness said Schultz growled at them when they tried to help, PCSO said.
Witnesses told deputies an alligator was spotted close to him as he swam across the lake.
Schultz emerged from the lake with an apparent alligator bite and began walking between houses while holding a pair of garden shears.
PCSO said he then used a brick to attempt to break into a resident’s truck.
A witness told detectives they saw the suspect run at deputies with the shears. He was tased twice, but it didn’t stop him.
Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said he climbed into the passenger side of a PCSO patrol vehicle, trying to get a deputy’s rifle.
That’s when two deputies, identified as a trainee and his trainer, opened fire on the suspect, killing him.
Judd said Schultz had a lengthy criminal history that included several arrests for methamphetamine.
This is a developing story and will be updated
Why is it blocked?
You might try using Tor
GDPR most likely.
It’s less effort to geoblock europe than to make sure their site complies. Also their website isn’t for europeans, so they have no reason to put in any effort to make it work.
Technically fine explanation but I’d add that it’s actually not less effort to be compliant, they would just have to stop fucking tracking their visitors and they don’t want to. Problem is surveillance capitalism ruining our internet, not regions having privacy laws protecting their citizens
If they aren’t in Europe why would they care if it is GDPR compliant?
I’m probably overthinking this
They are a subsidiary of NBC. If they violate GDPR, European bureaucracy will go after the parent organization. Not worth the hassle.
Because they’re still.legally responsible
I guess that solves the question if gators or cops are better to come across in a swamp.
ACAB
RTFA. PCSO said he then used a brick to attempt to break into a resident’s truck.
A witness told detectives they saw the suspect run at deputies with the shears. He was tased twice, but it didn’t stop him.
Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said he climbed into the passenger side of a PCSO patrol vehicle, trying to get a deputy’s rifle.
That’s when two deputies, identified as a trainee and his trainer, opened fire on the suspect, killing him.
Judd said Schultz had a lengthy criminal history that included several arrests for methamphetamine.
If the story is accurate, I have to say the cops were justified in this case.
That headline was a better story arc than Last of Us season 2.
Indeed, one whacked out MAGAt.
We need more Florida Man stories.
https://lemmyverse.net/communities?query=florida
Nobody seems to have created a dedicated Florida Man community as of this writing, but there is [email protected].
EDIT: Oh, wait, yes there is. Just no banner. [email protected]:
-
Florida Man Arrested For Having Three Wives In Different Counties After Dating App Scam Uncovered
-
Man in Florida 'shoots two Israelis he thought were Palestinian
-
Florida attorney allegedly strikes slimmer man with a dinner plate at the meat station after his daughter cuts in front of him in the buffet line
-
Florida Man eating 6-9 pounds of butter and cheese a day develops ‘cholesterol hands’ while on carnivore diet
-
Florida Clown School Student Who Tried to Smuggle Gold-Plated Pistol into Australia Claims Google Said It Was ‘OK’
-
Sarasota man drove stolen car to Mar-a-Lago to talk to Trump in Palm Beach, police say
-
Real life being more GTA than actual GTA.
Assuming what is said in the article is true, this is a rare case where I think the lethal force is justifiable. The dude was probably on meth and their tasers where doing nothing as he attempted to take one of their rifles.
