- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
A U.S. federal court on Wednesday blocked President Donald Trump’s “Liberation Day” tariffs from going into effect, ruling that the president overstepped his authority by imposing across-the-board duties on imports from nations that sell more to the United States than they buy.
You must log in or register to comment.
Lol. I wonder how quickly the Trump administration will get this before the Supreme Court.
Trump is gonna explode tonight.
The three judge panel included Reagan, Obama, and Trump appointees. It was a unanimous ruling. Ketchup will be all over the walls of Mar-a-Lago.
A Reagan appointee? Jesus fucking Christ, these people need to retire.
If he’s got 3 more years in him, I won’t mind.
But not now. They can die when the next democratic (and hopefully progressive democrat) president is sworn in. Until then, they need to stay the fuck alive.
Someone Voe3 this. Make a video of him wearing nothing but a diaper and a torn shirt wielding ketchup bottles akimbo squirting them all over everything.
Obligatory 🤮 emoji.
Thanks for that mental image. I hate it. 🤣
That sundowner 2am tweet FULL OF CAPS is gonna be TREMENDOUS.
The Trump administration minutes later filed a notice of appeal.
As soon as humanly possible, I guess.
Ordinarily, an order from this court would be appealed to the appellate court for the federal circuit, but I’m sure the administration will attempt to leapfrog this and try to immediately appeal to the Supreme Court. Since you only need one justice to grant cert, they’ll probably accept it. The real question is whether they’ll roll over for Trump. I can see Barrett and Roberts joining the liberal wing in upholding the court’s order striking down the tariffs, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.
Hot take: but this is going to suck. The tariffs were guaranteed to tank the economy and would be someone that no one who supported trump could staunchly defend. Now we’re going to get a decade of fascists saying “but the tariffs we wanted were never actually instituted so we’ll never know how good they would have been. That’s why I want to do this worse thing.”
Like, I understand that the liberation day tariffs were about to send the US into depression mode and I still kind of think them being blocked is a net good just cause of how bad we would have been fucked.
But God damn it’s going to be exhausting.
The Republicans wrecked the world economy in 2008, destroying half the wealth in the world, and were only out of power for 2 years. No matter how bad it is, there is nothing that can pierce the reality distortion field generated by the right wing propaganda machine.
You make it sound like they just did it effortlessly in 2008. The Republicans had been working hard on that crisis since 1971!
They would just move onto something else anyway, trump supporters will deflect until their death.
Yeah, I was kind of hoping this fascist government would fail-fast so we could start rebuilding.
That’s been his plan though. Whatever they let him do, he would try to do more. Then they would stop him in court, then he would blame the courts.
If they get their way, and we have a depression, they’ll blame the Democrats. If they get stopped before it goes that far, they’ll blame the Democrats. If the Dems are going to get blamed either way, let’s do it our way instead of theirs.
Eh, with USAID gone and SNAP being gutted, a lot of the farmers are going to go bankrupt. With the Medicaid cuts, a lot of the rural hospitals (the main employers in rural areas) are going to go bankrupt. And if the “big beautiful bill” doesn’t pass, all social security and medicare payments will stop until something passes. A lot of bad things will happen to the “wrong rural people”.
Also, Trump has another law he can use to make tariffs with, and it will be another 6 months before the court rules on that.
And if the “big beautiful bill” doesn’t pass
Another potential headache just like this one 😅
But it’s still the right thing to do of course. His plans rely on compliance.
The big bullshit bill is even more dangerous than allowing the tariffs because it erodes court checks on the executive branch.
That has been my position all along. I think the best thing long term is if shit gets real bad really quickly. The slower the decent the longer the suffering will be overall, and the less people are likely to notice and remember.
It could have been super bad and we’d have still forgotten by next election.
Yeah, people were actually clamoring for the heyday of…2020…in the last election cycle. Like 2020 sucked pretty fucking hard.
Yeah absolutely this.
This is the back down Trump has been hoping for really.
When everything goes to shit he can blame everyone else because he wasn’t allowed to roll out his dumb plan.
Honestly over the last few months I’ve been thinking a catastrophic financial crash might just dethrone trump. Not anymore.
That’s called accelerationism.
I somewhat agree with you, and I think we’re also saving Trump and the Republicans from themselves here.
On the other hand, it is undoubtedly a great thing that SOMEONE has finally put their foot down and challenged Trump’s authority to run the economy by fiat.
I fully agree. Protecting us from facing the full consequences of Trump’s idiotic policies is more dangerous than letting them happen. The most fervent cultists would have never seen the light anyway, but there are a decent number of people who could be convinced of the error of their ways if Trump was allowed to singlehandedly crash the US economy. Now I fear that we’ll just keep going until he is allowed to do something far worse.
Gonna love seeing Alito and Thomas try to argue that in this one very specific and limited case it’s perfectly fine for Congress to abdicate its Constitutionally appropriated powers to the executive branch.
I’m sure some precedent was set during a mutiny trial in the Roanoke colony or something…
We’ll see if it sticks. The big, fat, orange turd is so greasy that morning ever fucking sticks to him.
White House spokesperson Kush Desai said that trade deficits amount to a national emergency “that has decimated American communities, left our workers behind, and weakened our defense industrial base — facts that the court did not dispute.”
Well the new budget torpedoed this argument doesn’t it.
decimated American communities
The trade deficits have reduced American communities by 1/10th? Can this be…?
As a Portlander, I’m really happy that some of the people that we elected here in Portland and Oregon lead this legal fight to stop Trump’s dumb fucking bullshit trade way by fiat.
In some ways we are saving the economy from Trump, and thus saving Trump from facing the ramifications of his own stupid fucking decisions, but on the other hand, it’s nice that something is being done to challenge his authority.
Chaining this idiotic monkey to his desk so he can’t fling poo all over the constitution.
He doesn’t give a shit about the tariffs its just market manipulation for him and his buddies
It’s a bit from column A and a smidge from column B.
The tariffs and planned economic uncertainty contribute to the destabilization of the US and its relationships whilst trump and the greed team ransack it on the way down.
They’re also leverage for bribes.
US should also refund everyone that got hit
This is going to be a huge part of it in the coming days. How the fuck do you sort that out? People have already been hit. Inventory is already here and has been taxed. Who gets paid back? Who is going to buy the tariffed goods knowing the next shipment will be cheaper?
Friends of mine in the board game industry have already laid off all their employees during the 145% tariffs.
Yeah, several board game companies straight up closed. Trump killed small businesses. Trump killed family owned farms. Trump killed people with his covid shit policies.
I’ve been wondering why they are letting him arbitrarily impose those god damn tarrifs!
It’s crazy how we let one man tank the entire economy.
It wasn’t one man. He’s surrounded by supporters who can remove him from office.
First, we must define “they”: the republican traitor filth in congress. Need I say more?
Trump seems have decided that he can rule by decree regardless of the laws passed by Congress or the limits of the Constitution. Most of what he is doing is probably illegal and the courts should consider it in how they approach good will to the government.
what does this mean exactly? Like whats gonna happen. Kind of annoying that tariffs are in limbo.
I thought a tenant of a healthy economy was some base modicum of economic stability. With this news its like what the heck? Is this “tariffs go away over night” or “tariffs are now in place sort of, creatinf economic limbo until the Supreme Court eventually makes a decisions and then maybe someone somewhere enforces the decision “ sort of thing
They’re not in limbo per se, as the court issued a summary judgment to plaintiffs and struck the tariffs down. There are no tariffs now. They were illegal. To get them reinstated, Trump has to appeal, the court has to grant review (which only takes one justice, so review will almost certainly be granted), and then has to reverse the ruling. While the tariffs could be reinstated, I think it’s more likely than not that they won’t.
However, your point about economic stability is well taken. I’ll add to your point that the tariffs have already greatly harmed the U.S. by turning much of the world against us. They’ve forced other countries to look for alternative suppliers, and it is unlikely that they will come back, tariffs or not. They have also triggered boycotts of U.S. products.
The best part? All the price hikes announced to date will remain, even if any tariffs paid to date are refunded to every corporation.
This is an intentional effect.
This is why I like to remind everyone that inflation is a widespread increase in the cost of goods and services. There is no “greedflation” - that’s just inflation, and Republicans have been to blame for inflation all along.
Not thrilled about this. The tariffs were about the only damn thing I agreed with Trump about. Not exactly the way he was going about them but nonetheless they could have done a lot of good over the long term. Some damage on the short term, but that pain is overdue frankly.
You agree with a strategy that’s never worked? And has caused extreme economic recession on both of the previous attempts?
Huh.
More than two times. The US has used wide scale tariffs many times in the past, particularly in the 19th century and into the early 20th. They directly caused or were a significant contributing factor to a recession and FIVE depressions. The last one was the Great Depression.
Ah, looks like I get to be one of today’s lucky 10,000…
For some of us the recession is a feature not a bug.
“For some of us the suffering of millions and the early deaths of tens of thousands is a feature not a bug”
Yeah medicine is bitter. People can suffer now, or they can suffer later but the path we’re on will lead to suffering all the same. I prefer to suffer now frankly.
Edit: Let me get into this a little bit more, do you think the current economy is unfair to everyone except the elites? Your guttural reaction to this tells me that you might be, as most people on Lemmy. Well here’s the thing, changing the way things work, a revolution if you’d like to call it that but I don’t because it conjures images of a big uprising and I don’t think that’s necessarily how it’s gonna happen, will result in an upending of the system in such a way that it will be inevitable that people suffer. Change in human systems is followed or preceded by suffering. The possibility of suffering should not stop us from doing what will be best for future generations. I don’t understand where this mentality of avoiding suffering at all costs came from, but all it leads to is complacency and a continuation and proliferation of the current system. The worst thing is that the people that profess it the most tend to call themselves “leftists” which boggles my mind.
Long-winded accelerationism
I guess you could call it that.
It can work if targeted and coupled with industrial policy. Eg. The CHIPS act coupled with a tariff on Chinese chips, stuff like that. Everyone agrees that Trump’s way of doing it was counterproductive.
Well, exactly. But that’s not at all what he did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What is the upside of the tariff position?
It’s easy to make the mistake of overestimating Trump’s strategy when trying to understand his behavior.
Since getting elected he just doesn’t give a fuck. He’s got a decade to live at best and he get’s to ride it out in luxury with the entire world as his play thing.
He got elected by saying he would implement tariffs, gut government services, and be mean to poor people. He’s been doing exactly those things.
The tariff announcements just stoke angst. Imagine a narcissist being able to fire off a “truth” and the whole world descending in to chaos for a week. That’s it. Like a child poking an ants nest.
We stop exploiting cheap labor in other countries that maintain said labor cheap by giving no protections to their workers. It stops the abhorrent consumerist culture that permeates society, and its ecological implications. And like there are of course, national security concerns that have been exposed with COVID-19.
And tariffs are perfectly legal when they go through the proper channels. So, the administration just needs to go through the proper channels and work with the legislative branch to pass such tariffs. And they shouldn’t be predicated on a bullshit national emergency
bullshit national emergency
You mean the President’s feelings being hurt because no one cares about him and they’re starting to tell him that to his face instead of being polite? And starting to actively ignore everything he says and purposely doing the exact opposite of what he wants?
Yes I’m sure this would have been the one time the neolib/cons at congress would have acted against their own interests.
Beside the point. You want tariffs? Follow the law, it’s that simple
To govern within the boundaries of the law, one often needs to build coalitions. Those are guardrails established by democracy
Oh I agree. I just also happen to know that the people who should be imposing this tariffs are the ones with the biggest incentives not to do so, so they won’t do it. Look at all the disgusting things they let him get away with and the one thing that would upended the economic order in ways that would not benefit the elites got stopped.
I had some hope that this would be the one thing to slip by. Instead they will let him send people to foreign gulags without due process. But nope, don’t touch the billionaires supply chains! That’s no bueno.
Cool, so implement them legally, through Congress. Where they have input from actual economic experts that at least have a minimum understanding of the economy. Not just because someone hurt Trump’s feefees and he reacts like the petulant child he is.
All the current tariffs will do is kill the actual US-based businesses they’re supposedly supposed to help. Because foreign businesses can just stop selling in the US market and focus elsewhere, the US businesses don’t have that option and instead just have to pay upwards of 140% MORE, in many cases more spent on tariffs than their entire product would sell for. Sudden changes like that just kill businesses.
US consumers don’t have an extra 150% increase in their paychecks to go along with the price increases from the tariffs. I’d love to more than double my current pay. If that happened, I’d happily pay the increased tariff pricing.
Despite what neoclassical economists will have you believe, many economists do believe Trumps tariffs had solid grounds. The cutting edge of economic thinking is Modern Monetary Policy. And most of the experts I have heard from that school of thought agreed with the tariffs at some level. They mostly disagree with the implementation but they agree that the principles behind them are sound.
Just know that you cannot in one breath criticize billionaires like Musk and Bezos while defending the global neoliberal order in the other. They are one and the same thing.
Yes there will be pain, but that pain will come for us sooner or later and I think it better come sooner rather than later when we are in a worst position to recover from it. You can let a leg fester with gangrene or you can cut it off and save the rest of the body.
Modern monetary policy falls apart when the globe decides to just ignore the US because it’s isolated itself from global trade through idiotic policy.
No serious economists are claiming this implementation as anything other than absolutely insane.
Sure the implementation is fucked. But the basis of it is not necessarily bad. And I believe that even botched implement would have resulted in long term gains that would have been beneficial.
Also economic experts are almost exclusively coming from a neoclassical vision, which is incomplete because it disregards the role of money. Modern Monetary Theory simply fixes that limitation and adds a new perspective that is more complete than the neoclassical vision.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gvDcMU_ko1h5TeVjQL8UMJW9gmKY1x0zcqKIRTZQDAQ/mobilebasic
When the experts of any given field are said that they are incorrect they tend to react with rejection, so it is no surprise that they would reject MMT, as it destroys a lot of what their work has been based on. So don’t just listen to what the experts say, they have incentives to reject revolutionary ideas in their field.
You’re acting like “the basis of the concept of a tariff” matters when the tool is used poorly.
Also, the long term effects of this implementation would not have been beneficial, it would only shrink US trade as it makes itself both irrelevant and an irrational unpredictable partner.
You really sound like you have the most surface level understanding of what is happening. MMT doesn’t work when you remove your status as the reserve currency by doing this shit.
Can you show me one of these experts agreeing with Trump’s tariffs?
It’s been mostly on podcasts, mainly 1Dime radio which has been having MMT people for a while and I highly recommend. But I believe this blog post by Bill Mitchell, who is one of the main forces behind Modern Monetary Theory enters into the rationale of why he would think the tariffs have a solid foundation:
Except his tariffs weren’t doing anything to change that dynamic.
So, in fact, you do not agree with him in tariffs.
If you want to bring back manufacturing to the US, you didn’t start off your tariff war by increasing the price of every single raw material we need to build those factories and their products. Which is what he did. He had imposed tariffs on steel, wood, aluminum, etc even before his “liberation day” tariff the planet stunt.
It would have been a byproduct of them that I believe he doesn’t give a fuck about, but he has allude to in a few occasions.
I agree on the second point. The tariffs needed to be wide ranging but somewhat phased. But he can’t do that because he knows he doesn’t have the time, so like everything else he’s doing it with the startup mentality of move fast and break shit. Which I favor in this particular case because I don’t see a neoliberal corpo puppet democrat pushing for tariffs ever.
It would NOT have been a byproduct, and I explained why already.
“Nuh uh” is not a rebuttal.
He certainly moved fast and broke our economy. That’s not a good thing. Pretending it is shows your nativity.
It would have been a byproduct I agree, but it’s one that he’s aware about it even if it’s not the goal. I don’t care about his goal, those are always misaligned . I care about what the actual effect is. Again, the breaking of the economy is more of a feature than a bug. I said this already.
Now I would need to write an essay here to explain why that is a somewhat necessary thing but I won’t. I’ll just say that no paradigm change has happened without pain, so we either accept the pain or we let things hum along and hope that they get better (they wont, the existing structures will only calcify more until change is impossible and collapse ensues)
I hope the next president gets the vision, but they will inevitably be a neoliberal corporat so, fat chance of that happening.
My phone missed the word NOT.
We do not agree because you are flat out incorrect
Your opinion is obviously not very popular, and I also think it is flawed, but I will say I appreciate you coming here to try to discuss it.
Our economy has progressed from manufacturing to the tertiary sector just as it moved on from mining and agriculture (primary sector) over a century ago.
Not only that, but the way these were implemented is such a big component that can’t be glossed over. We need food - that’s included too? Just how quickly do you think we can get mangoes growing in Wisconsin for us to eat here in America? And if you want to bring up the ridiculousness of that idea… Exactly.
I am under no impression that manufacturing would return to the US to create jobs. If it did came back it would have needed to be highly automated. That being said, for me it is a moral imperative that we stop mass consumption of goods produced by people in abhorrent conditions. Bring it back here automate it all. Like Apple says they couldn’t produce the iPhones here but put enough pressure and I bet they’ll figure out a way; doesn’t Huaweii have a factory making phones with no humans in it at all? I do agree that the haphazard nature of the implementation meant that this was doomed from the start. But I was hopeful.
To address your second point:
I would argue that mangoes aren’t a necessity to your diet, you can replace them with fruits that do grow in the US. But I agree monoculture is a huge issue that has a somewhat easy solution but no one wants to touch the farmers living of the governments teat. Tariffs could have been a good tool to stop subsidizing them, without having a collapse in their agricultural sector.
for me it is a moral imperative that we stop mass consumption of goods produced by people in abhorrent conditions
Yes, I’d love to see a decrease in the cheap utter crap we are producing/consuming on this planet, and of course I’m all for humans being treated properly. But blanket tariffs with no apparent consideration of how people are generally treated in those countries (only how we are tariffed) won’t encourage anyone to solve that.
I would argue that mangoes aren’t a necessity to your diet, you can replace them with fruits that do grow in the US
It was a flipping example. There are plenty of fruits you can replace that with. And in the winter we have hardly any fresh produce and have to rely on, for example, Chile (which has its summer conveniently during our winter. Yay geography). IIRC a ton of the world’s garlic comes from China. Could we survive on our own locally-produced food alone? Perhaps. Would we have the same variety we enjoy today? Probably not. Year round? Almost certainly not. Can it all be done as quickly as these tariffs are implemented? Fuck to the no!
It doesn’t matter if he considered the conditions because he can’t force them to stop exploiting their workforce. But the net effect would have been a floor to the price of production at a global level so corporations would have to choose between slave labor, complex supply chains and overseas shipping costs or domestic labor with lower shipping costs and somewhat simpler supply chains.
Yes the economy would suffer. Medicine is bitter. The option is watching the train derail in slow motion.
It doesn’t matter if he considered the conditions because he can’t force them to stop exploiting their workforce
Sure he can. Or at least use it as a tool to help curb it. Anyone with the authority to exercise tariffs (in this case, that turned out to be the issue, but aside from that) can say that x industry in y country is exploiting their workers and products related to that industry is subject to whatever tariff they choose to implement. They may even use their powers (if only advocacy here) to help those affected. Thing is, Trump doesn’t give two shits about any of that, so if any progress is made in the areas in which you’re concerned it’s out of dumb luck and nothing else.
If Trump’s message is to be trusted, he wants to make deals and have more people buy from us, meaning global consumption might shift (assuming deals are made and all) but certainly not go down
It’s a shame you’re being downvoted for making valid points. I think the problem is that many people can’t endorse a trump policy, even if it might eventually have an unintended positive outcome. I don’t blame them either - I get the impression that a lot of the tariff stuff we’ve seen so far has been market manipulation for the benefit of shit-sack and his wealthy backers.
I’ve acknowledged like the ~two times he had a good idea. This is not one of them, and wouldn’t accomplish what the OC wants to see accomplished.
It’s a bad idea all around. On top of being illegally executed.
It’s true that globalisation and long supply chains are not great from an environmental perspective. Obviously trump doesn’t give a single fuck about this, it would have been one small, purely accidental positive consequence of the tariffs.
Removed by mod
Best argument yet.
Total asshole thing to say on his part. We have down vote buttons for a reason.
I have to say, I’m not sure I agree with your points entirely either. However, I do appreciate you voicing a pretty unpopular opinion, stating your points in a calm manner, and not taking rage bait. Lemmy can often feel like a left wing echo chamber, and it’s nice to know I’m not seeing comments from the same 5 people with multiple alt accounts. The fediverse is starting to feel alive.
The funniest thing is that wide sweeping tariffs are the most left coded action a president has taken since the establishment of social security. People really have lost all objectivity when it comes to Trump or his policies. The entire identity of the “left” in the US has become their opposition to him and his policies.
The funniest thing is that wide sweeping tariffs are the most left coded action a president has taken since the establishment of social security
Hey, dipshit, stop being a dipshit and off yourself for the betterment of humanity already
You raise some excellent points. What’s your Substack so I can read more about your nuanced, well thought out out political takes?
Again: gun in your mouth or stfu, Nazi supporting scum
The only point needed for Nazis like you is a reminder to die, preferably painfully
